Ladies who don't mind their DP going to lap dancing clubs ....

[nappyaddict]

Do you mind them having a dance in a private room where even though touching is not allowed it is common for the girl to sit and dance cms away from their crotch/face?

If you'd heard a man old enough to be your daughter's father say "look at the tits on that" about your 18 year old DD , would you find that normal and healthy? I highly doubt it. It's vile.

Burlesque is not the same as Lap dancing.

I've seen a burlesque style show in Las Vegas, the men and women performers were sexy, quite erotic even, but they weren't displaying intimate parts of their body for the audience or grinding against the bodies of men to cause sexual arousal - there were also equal numbers of men and women watching the show.

I'm quite glad somebody has mentioned burlesque, scl & mal. I wanted to point out that it's what male strip shows (for women) are. Nice body + dance + humour. It is in no way comparable to what a lap dance is about. IMO (and sexist XH's).

AnyFucker for a mince pie !! You're winning the thread

Iceland has banned strip clubs. From the Icelandic prime minister ""I guess the men of Iceland will just have to get used to the idea that women are not for sale."

"Yes Larry, let's divorce all human behaviour from its social and cultural context and judge it on that basis. Cos that's equality innit?"

Well, yes, that is equality actually. As opposed to starting from an assumption and looking at everything through that lens. Frankly, who is more empowered, the female stripper being gazed at in rapt attention by her male audience or the male stripper being laughed at by a gang or ribald females? I know who's position I would prefer to be in.

And, this idea that male strippers are some sort of sophisticated burlesque is complete crap. How about you google "male strippers being given a blow job on a hen night" and you will find plenty of video clips.

Some young people of both sexes with great bodies will always use them to economic advantage, whether selling bonds in the City, stripping or making a good marriage. It is evolution 101. There is a direct correlations between women's increasing financial muscle and older women dating much younger men, male strippers and gigolos etc. E

The lap dancing places I have been to represent the very tame and innocent end of that spectrum.

I don't think I'd mind tbh.
I don't know if dp has ever been to one, he hasn't whilst we have been together, but not sure about before, and don't really care.
I think if he went now, it'd be fine, it's only a bit of fun (I suppose) and i also think i'd be ok with a private dance, it's not like it's 'real' on either side is it?

The same if he was to go out dancing or something, if he wanted to dance with a girl and have a little flirt-up, that's fine too, i do it with the boys when I go out, doesn't mean anything, as long as you go home to who you're supposed to and don't let things get out of hand, is all pretty harmless IMO

I've had one of those private dances, me and my mate did it when we all ended up at a lapdancing club at a weekend away. We had a ball, and the girls in the club were a lovely bunch, we had more girls sat with us having a laugh than the men did. This was quite an upmarket club and the girls were telling me how much they earnt, heck, I considered a career change. I know they are not all like that but hey, how can I mind DH doing it if I've done it myself?

I would mind and I did mind when my ex went to one. It's a dealbreaker for me now. I don't respect men who think it's ok to treat women as disposable objects and who think it's ok to do something that they wouldn't do in their own front room on a Saturday night. I also don't understand women who think it's ok just because the man is paying.

"Darling, I'm just going to get one of my female friends to grind naked on my lap for 20 minutes in the bedroom. You carry on watching X-Factor, love, we'll be done soon."

How many men would be happy about their partners paying a hot naked guy to writhe naked on their lap in a private room? Not many, not the men I know, anyway.

A lot of men I know have admitted that they would hate it if it was their own daughter/sister/girlfriend/wife on the podium yet they think it's ok to degrade someone else's wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend. I hate that hypocrisy.

I'd also suggest that anyone who doesn't know what goes on in the private rooms checks out the Dispatches documentary from October 2008, in which they filmed undercover in lap dancing clubs up and down the country. I can't imagine many women being cool about it after seeing that.

The only difference to them being unfaithful in the normal sense of the word is that money is changing hands.

'Some young people of both sexes with great bodies will always use them to economic advantage, whether selling bonds in the City, stripping or making a good marriage.'

How do men use their great bodies to advantage selling bonds in the City? This is a new one on me.
Do they take their clothes off to do it?

Dispatches is sadly about as one-sided and sensationalist as it gets in broadcast media. It's even worse than Tonight with Trevor McD was.

I remember the talk around this documentary at the time. At least two of the big club companies that were featured in the programme offered to put forward spokespeople for camera interviews but the offer was declined by the producers.

Having dealt with the Dispatches team a number of times in my line of work I don't think much of what they produce is credible. They are very clever at setting up situations and manipulating the 'documentary' content to get viewers into a frenzy.

I dont think I would be too bothered if my dp went as a one-off or very occasionally to a lap dancing club. Private dance no way though. Much too intimate. Dont forget that some of these girls do provide extras though.

I even put this to my dp one day when discussing the subject- Would he mind me having a private dance from a good looking bloke and I was able to touch his cock? Same thing!

crazycatlady sorry, I live abroad and don't watch dispatches. What's the connection between Dispatches and the way men who use lap dancers objectify women (and this thead about the way women feel about men who do that)

The issue i think really is, is the bloke getting turned on by it? Really aroused because if so then its wrong. Its a bit different if its just fun compared to actually being aroused.

Also, I don't agree with the posters whop say that it is ok as the man is coming home to them after! I mean, do we have to be grateful that our men ogle other women but choose us?Thanks!

Sakura an earlier poster had referenced the Dispatches doc from 2008 as a way to learn more about what happens in lapdancing clubs.

I was pointing out that Dispatches needs to be handled with care if you're looking to find out more to help form an opinion. They did not present a full or balanced report of the lapdancing industry in the UK, they simply dug up the seediest clubs they could find.

No punters, club owners or dancers were interviewed so it didn't explore whether dancers feel exploited, how much pressure there is or isn't to offer 'added extras', what male (and female) punters think lapdancing says about the availability of naked women being for sale etc...

AnyFucker can I just add my thanks for your posts.

Your posts always challenge my worldview without being so confrontational that I am put off.

You have really made me think.

Nappyaddict, i think you must live in the same part of the country as me as I too know of bunny's/cuddles. Basically brothels. There's another one too that i pass frequently- a massage parlour(brothel)called the Bluebelle suite. Yuck

Now I could just about 'get' the lap dancing, but massage parlour, no chance.

I suspected you thought that's what equality was, Larry. As you might expect, I passionately disagree with you, because I think the "lens" that you look through is myopic. The peripheral vision you are missing contains all the social construction and context.

It appears that through your lens, if women are "empowered" enough to be paid for their sexual assets and the men doing the paying are ripped off by the club and treated with contempt by the women, this awful behaviour is evidence of equality.

I agree with you incidentally, that women are evidently capable of engaging in sex acts with male strippers, but as I said upthread, the notion that women paying for sex, objectifying men and treating punters with contempt is an advance on creating an egalitarian society, is fundamentally flawed.

The day after feeling the "power" you describe, those female strippers and YouTube exhibitionists will drive into a garage for a repair and receive poorer service than a man in the same position, they will be overlooked in favour of a man at work and receive less pay, they will be described as "emotional" by their boss and not "assertive" or "angry", they will come home from a day's work and find that another night's work awaits them because their male partner didn't "see" the pile of toys scattered across the living room, they will be criticised by other men and women for not nurturing their relationship and their Mums will tutt when they admit they don't iron their husbands' shirts.

In simplified terms that's the social context you're missing here. When faced with that, giving a male stripper a blow-job the night before or selling your body for sexual titillation doesn't seem quite the force for equality you could pretend it was, does it?

Regardless of gender, paying for sex in all its forms damages our society, but pretending that we don't live in a patriarchical society and that treating men with contempt somehow equalises the position is naive in the extreme.

Larry epitomises all that is wrong with a small minority of men - he thinks that simply by virtue of being male, he's always right. It matters not that he may have 100 or 1000 women telling him he's wrong, a woman's opinion doesn't matter in quite the same way as a man's does.

Choice and equality have no bearing on his views.

Malificence,

Nope, I always justify my views with a logical argument. However many people shout a view, it does not make it right if it is wrong.

When,

You are just making a number of assertions about sexual inequalities, some of which may have some virtue, some which have none. They are all just unevidenced assertions, though.

The awful behaviour is evidence of equality. It does not make it any the less edifying. Umm, if they are strippers, they are hardly going to be overlooked for promotion in favour of a man!

I remember being fairly ambivalent about lap dancing clubs until my ex went to one with my brothers. And then I felt devastated. My brothers fell off their pedestals that night. Hearing them discuss the girls "p-ssies" made me feel sick. They laughed at the performers too, treating them with disrespect.

I felt silenced at the time and couldn't articulate why I was upset. No one else involved "allowed" me to have a problem with it.

But the more I found out about the clubs, about what goes on in them, that the girls have to pay to perform and have to earn their money back, the more I realised that my feelings were valid. The sense of entitlement men feel to do whatever they like was a revelation to me and the women I knew just shrugged their shoulders and said, they're men; it's what they do.

The Dispatches documentary was quite narrow but the undercover footage from the clubs was very interesting. It picked a range of clubs, some of them seen as 'upmarket' brands (ahem). I'd done a fair bit of research on lap dancing clubs by this point but my jaw was on the floor within 2 minutes.

Every club showed breaches in licensing conditions and the girls got blamed every time. Yet the conditions they work in are such that they are subtly encouraged to break the rules. Clubs can charge say £50 a night to work there. They fill the clubs up with girls so there is more choice for the punter. The girls therefore have more competition to earn their money back. And the owners are raking in thousands every week just from the girls walking in through the front door to go to work.

Say ten girls every night, £50 a night. That's £3500 just from the workers alone. Then men come in and pay for overpriced drinks and tipping dollars and the owners are laughing.

A lived female experience is not an unevidenced assertion actually, Larry. You also assume that female strippers/sex workers do not have other job roles, normally in the day-time. If you also think that male club owners treat their female workforce as equitably in terms of pay and conditions as their male employees, you are deluded.