Ladies who don't mind their DP going to lap dancing clubs ....

[nappyaddict]

Do you mind them having a dance in a private room where even though touching is not allowed it is common for the girl to sit and dance cms away from their crotch/face?

snowflake......Just trying to be kind but I don't think anyone cares about your sex life, plus there's always a danger that others will think you're a prude no matter how much detail you spew someone's always having a better time than you!!

Larry............Why would you assume anything other than the fact that a woman may well know her husband, instead of assuming a strong opinionated woman is married to somewhat of a lettuce?

I like the way these threads always go to insults just because people dont agree with opposite opinions.

All I am saying is everyone likes different things and has different opinions. I respect anyone who doesnt go to strip clubs but if you do that is up to you. If a person cant decide what is ok and their likes in their relationship then it is up to them to work on themsleves and their confidence to say so.

my husband is a liar then, larry ?

that's your fallback position always isn't it ?

he couldn't possibly be a decent man, oh no, because I am so "strident" he daren't stand up to me < rolls on floor laughing >

FWIW, I don't consider using "family money" on paying for sexual services anywhere near a comparison with a day at a spa (which I don't do) or a new pair of boots (which all the family benefit from at some point)

I haven't said this so far, larry, because I consider it impolite but since you keep casting aspersions on my husband (this isn't the first time you have done it), then I feel justified in saying I feel sorry for your wife

you feel you have a right to pay young women for a sexual fantasy, women who in normal circs would laugh in your face

that says something about you, and it is ugly

snowflake69 Wed 15-Dec-10 07:26:33
I like the way these threads always go to insults just because people dont agree with opposite opinions.

All I am saying is everyone likes different things and has different opinions. I respect anyone who doesnt go to strip clubs but if you do that is up to you. If a person cant decide what is ok and their likes in their relationship then it is up to them to work on themsleves and their confidence to say so.

That sums it up for me, there are those who accept that strip clubs are part of the wider issue about the objectification of women whic impacts each and every one of us and those that are too naive and/or ignorant.

Snowflake the only person being insulting on this thread is you. Have you actually read it back?

Women who don't see your point are fat, ugly, psycopathic, modern day prostitutes who probably hate sex

You wouldn't know respect if it hit you in the face, those comments are why you are getting the reaction you are, for reasons previously stated. Your point had lost all credibility.

My mistake snowflake, I do apologise, I read you as heroine. Too many drugs (of the medical variety) and not enough sleep I feel.

I could have sworn you and heroine were the same person Not just typing style......I missed you had a totally different name, sorry!

"I haven't said this so far, larry, because I consider it impolite but since you keep casting aspersions on my husband (this isn't the first time you have done it), then I feel justified in saying I feel sorry for your wife

you feel you have a right to pay young women for a sexual fantasy, women who in normal circs would laugh in your face"

I don't think you EVER worry about politeness, Any,especially when you deal with men (I mean, look at the name you have chosen!). Where on earth have I been unpleasant about you? Do you deny you have strident views on this subject? Then you say I am calling your husband a "liar". It is hardly lying to slightly modify one's expressed views in order to fit in with one's spouse. It is the norm in most marriages I suspect. It is very different from lying about one's actions.

As I have also repeatedly said, I have not visited that kind of establishment since I have been married. On the other hand, if I were invited as part of a group at the end of an evening, I would not refuse to go. I have no problem with the concept but they hardly form a huge (well, actually, any) part of my life at the moment.

What I think is generally misunderstood, despite repeated explanations by both people who have been and lapdancers themselves is how they are generally used. When I used to go, it was normally as corporate entertainment (so no family money spent. Shareholders may have a right to complain but that is another issue). It was generally a group of five or six men having a meal at a very decent restaurant and then at about 11/12 o'clock moving on to a lapdancing establishment. A few girls would come and chat and be bought drinks. Occasionally someone would have a dance but that was a very minor aspect. Everyone would stay in a group and have general chat. I seem to remember chatting to one well endowed female about whether she should fix her mortgage or not. Most of these places work as a place where, if you don't mind paying through the nose, you can sit comfortable without stupidly loud music and have a chat and have the company of some pretty girls. I cannot see what is so reprehensible about that.

Larry.....your last post is eeeeewwwww, "in the company of some pretty girls" who are paid to sit with you....yucky yucky yuck.

Perhaps Anyfuckers husband has his own ticketyboo moral compass? You are one of those typical blokes that think all men are either 'tits or arse' and if they say otherwise they're hen pecked or liars. Truly pathetic.

The,

"eewww". What a delightfully mature and logical argument you make. Do you think the women and charity auctions buying dinner with Nadal (for example) would be having dinner with him if they had not paid?

And you are one of those women who believe that only a woman can know how another woman thinks and yet a man's view on male thought is no more valid than her own.

No, where on earth did you get that idea?

I'm one of those people who assume that a couple married for a number of years actually know eachother, and if a spouse knows that the other is not a pathetic creature that enjoys exploiting women then I take their word for it. I would not assume all men are the same, seems like you do.

Your view on someone else's husband, unless you know him personally, is entirely worthless in comparison to the wife's.

And 'eeewww' is a perfect description of my response after reading your post, which conjured a view of a seedy wimpy little man in the 'company of some pretty girls'.....reminded me of all the westerners out in Thailand.

And Larry.....Charity auction makes it different and the fact that the '#prize' is known for much more than a good tit shaker.

Larry, what did the women in your company think about that form of corporate entertainment? Did your firm ever go to a spa with clients?

Feminist,

OF course it does. It is his conversation that interests you, his smouldering latin looks and large biceps had not even been noticed by you. And the fact it is all for charidddyyy.

I am glad you accept that men can know women and vice versa. You are in a minority here. I am frequently being told that I cannot understand about how a female feels about X, Y or Z even though I have discussed the issue with my wife and/or female friends.

"Creepy" is a really misandrist word. You would never use it about a female. It is one of those words which can be used to discredit any male with whom you disagree. I have never ever seen a female described as "creepy" on MN.

Notjust,

I was the client. And brokerage firms have never been known for their high moral position. Going to a spa would be really strange as you normally go alone and spend a fair amount of time unrobed. Normally not in the evening, either.

Women in money brokerage firms put up or shut up. Given how much they can make without being tremendously bright, they generally put up (and sometimes sue later) It is actually an ugly culture and one that I am not attempting to defend. They are generally misogynist organisations.

It is true that lapdancing as a form of corporate entertainment does not work as soon as women become involved. Most brokerages and traders are men, though.

I don't think that you can make the argument that banning lap dancing would change the culture, though. It would just go underground and be far seedier.

I wasn't making any argument for banning . I am making the argument for why it is more than an individual issue, though. Or, rather, you are doing it for me.

Not,

I was anticipating what people would say in response.

Agree, it is an individual issue.

The going to a lap dancing club as just an extension of the business deal, after the expensive meal is just as concerning and revealing as men going for a drunken stag party.

The suggestion is that the men in the business party aren't interested in the women, and that actually getting a dance is unusual. So why on earth go to a lap dancing club? So that the men can go to a place where the place of women as sexual wallpaper is accepted? So they can exclude women from the business deals? So they can use the positioning of women as other to them, in making themselves feel more important? That is even more revealing of why this culture matters, and why it extends beyond the sexual act, than drunk blokes going for an oggle.

I don't buy any argument of there being quieter music. There are many places one can go to with quieter music.

Alice,

Why do so many on here spell "ogle" as "oggle". It sounds like something my 18 month old son would come out with.

Ok, Alice, as I said I used to go about 10/15 yrs ago and have not been recently. Where on earth do 5-6 guys go to continue their evening at midnight? Never get into a club. Most bars even have bouncers and only allow in mixed groups or people on the guest list. As for excluding women from business, if there are no women there to start with, how on earth are they being excluded? So, where are these "many" places that a group of guys can go to in central London? Please name them.

Cause and effect, Larry. Why do YOU think there might not be any women in the party?

Larry, you are contradicting yourself. You admitted that women work in brokerage firms (and of course they do, I know of several such senior brokers) and so they are excluded from this type of corporate entertainment, unless they attend through gritted teeth.

However Larry you missed what notjustapotforsoup was saying, which is that this isn't an individual issue. The link you have provided between visiting lapdancing clubs as part of corporate entertainment provided by a mysogynist firm, is the wider picture that many of us have urged you and others to see.

I wouldn't even try to persuade you to change your view of women, because given the ways you have tried to reduce us on this thread, it seems your attitudes are too ingrained. I can only add that my experience of my fellow woman is far removed from the images and caricatures you and some others have provided on this thread.

As predicted at the start of this thread, it has gone the way of so many others on this subject; posters claiming that individual behaviour has no links with societal issues, the hackneyed "it is up to the individual couple" line (with the usual over-sharing); the posters defending their partners' use of LDCs, infantilising them in the process and the usual compromises (stag nights are ok, regular attendance is not).

notjustapotforsoup is absolutely right Larry in that your post, especially your testimony about corporate entertainment, illuminates most vividly, the argument for taking a wider view. It is no coincidence that a misogynist firm entertains clients at a LDC. One set of misogynist behaviours begets another. The colleagues you sat with round that table no doubt returned to work the following day and carried on with the behaviour that you say their "not very bright" female colleagues had learned to "put up with and shut up" about, until those brighter than they'd imagined females sued them, for sex discrimination.

Larry

To point 1, what an interesting thing to pick up on.

To point 2, again an interesting thing to pick up on and question to pose.

Nice predictable try.

And back to what we're actually talking about?

When,

I think you are confusing stock broking and money broking. There are very few senior women in money brokers.

You have no idea of my view of women. In fact, I don't have a view of "women". I treat each one as I find them.

If I am a client, the guys entertaining me are not my colleagues. Banks and funds typically have a far more robust view of misogyny and huge HR departments promoting diversity and equality. So, my colleagues would not have been "carrying" on any such behaviour. It is bright, albeit cynical, to knowingly join a business known for misogyny, extract money from it for many years, and then get your final payout in a discrimination case. Yes, those firms are asking for it, but the women are hardly lilywhite either.