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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

unsure where to go with daughter

154 replies

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 10:25

I am a single parent and the youngest has always been hard work, this has been noticed by everyone who has seen her in action, it was always worse with me than with her father however she was the same with him when he was around. He is the most controlling person going and he could not control her either! She is good at school! I took her with the ex a few months before he left to see the gp to get a referral nothing happened, I took her privately and asked if she had adhd or something they said as she sat in school she did not... ex blamed her behaviour on me, our other child is normal range of behaviour...

I am sick to the back teeth of being beaten up, I am sick to the back teeth of being a slave to her physically and emotionally... I feel trapped and the situation is bringing me further down...

I have escaped abuse from other people and I feel I am trapped with her, there is no one else around, they were all abusive and would not help anyways, I have begged twice for social services to take her on short term care, they say they would go to the family, if that happened she would just beat me up more...

i am having therapy for the abuse from the past and the therapist knows the situation, she is trying to help me build up my self esteem.

I had a ed psy come for two years to the house, dd would not engage, I worked on myself...

A friend once suggest dd had oppositional disorder, I am worred getting her counselling as I am scared she will say something wrong, for example if you go on the computer once for half an hour when she is watching tv she will say I am on the computer all the time.... and I am worried that someone will believe her. I am also scared as ex told lies about me to the authorities in the past... I feel trapped I know she needs help, I feel if I get her help she will hang me, and I am sick of being hanged for other people's issues...

OP posts:
Gettingagrip · 24/11/2010 16:14

Mummie...if you can read anything written by this lady ..... Camila Batmanghelidjh I think you may find it helpful.

She is an amazing woman with a real understanding of difficult children and abusive family circumstances.

She founded Kids Company, and is truly inspirational.

Don't cry, this will all turn out ok for you. Please keep posting, and ignore the posters who have no experience with abusive family situations.

Of course you need a break...everyone does! Some children are just more difficult than others, and throw abusive parent(s) into the mix, and ...bang...you get real fireworks.

Have you seen your GP about your own feelings? Perhaps see a different one if the previous one was not up to scratch? If you are depressed that will affect your own response to your daughter.

Keep you chin up. All things must pass. xx

dittany · 24/11/2010 16:34

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dittany · 24/11/2010 16:36

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GypsyMoth · 24/11/2010 18:17

i dont think many truly understand mummie....i do tho

yes we get a break when they are in school....not MUCH of a break tho with housework etc to be done.

not the kind of break where you can relax with a friend over a glass of wine,or dinner. not a REAL break is it!

she can say those things here because its safe to,many people vent here.....its not in front of her daughter

she is not scapegoating her.....how??

dignified · 24/11/2010 18:52

The thing is , it can feel like your their victim. It feels deliberate , calculated , it feels like warfare each day . I too used to feel like she was spoiling ours , and her own life , because of her behaviour. Many times i would dread going home .

I would worry too about what she was capable of , and what this would mean for her as she got older . She seemed to lack any empathy at all and took real pleasure in hurting others .

Looking back im often embarressed that i let a young child get control over me in that way , but this was on the back of years of abuse , i was not at my best , had low self esteem and lacked confidence . Her verbal and physical abuse would often reduce me to tears .

There does need to be an understanding of whats caused this behaviour , which your aware of , and also holding them responsible for the consequences of their behaviour depending on their age . Id say a ten year old is old enough to know the differance between right and wrong , and clearly she does too , hence her not doing this to others , or at school. While her experiences might explain her behaviour , it doesnt excuse it .

I wonder if you would find it helpfull to keep a diary Mummie ? Something i realised was that i was extremeley resentfull towards her . I woke each day already angry about the things she,d done the previous day , the resentment snowballed and sometimes , because i was already so angry , i would over react if she did something minor .

It might be usefull if you could write down what she has done today that has made you angry and upset. You might find that actually its not what shes done today , it was something that happened a week ago , but if your still angry about it it probably means it wasnt dealt with properly at the time .

It might be worth too looking at your own family dynamic with your siblings if you have any . In my family everyone had a certain role , and im aware that one of my siblings was a scapegoat and i suspected that we were doing the same with my dd on occasion.

After all , we were all angry and trying to come to terms with what had happened in our own way . I dont know if sometimes it was easier to focus on her behaviour rather than look at some of the more deeper stuff ,Im not saying this is the case with you , but i think it was happening with us to an extent on occasion .

Do contact womans aid , the centre i went to was just a normal house which was just a few miles away , i didnt even know it was there . Its free to and they often have childcare available if you need it.

dittany · 24/11/2010 19:26

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dignified · 24/11/2010 20:26

I dont think Mummie is declaring her weakness , i think she is understandably overwhelmed and needs some support. A weak parent wouldnt have left an abusive relationship , wouldnt be in therapy and wouldnt be reaching out for support .Shes aproached all sorts of healthcare and mental health proffesionals and is still trying to resolve it.

The support available for this is minimal , and your often told your the problem , which echoes what many abusive partners say , and what the children also begin to say .

There is a massive stigma surrounding this sort of thing , i think it takes a certain strength to speak out about it . Most people assume that when an abusive partner leaves thats the end of it , no one expects a child to step into their shoes .

The dynamics of it are differant to your average child playing up or having a cob on , i think this thread highlights what can sometimes go on after these relationships end , and the need for more support .

dittany · 24/11/2010 20:38

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applebaum · 24/11/2010 20:43

dittany . I think you have made some very valid comments but I am concerned that you are also blaming the OP and adding to her distress in implying guilt.

Perhaps the OP needs more serious input dittany?. Her dc sounds complex, difficult and I think we should all listen a little more.

Many of us have a wealth of experience on here. But this sounds quite a desperate situation. We should allow OP the time to give us more info and a warmer cue. Smile

dittany · 24/11/2010 21:21

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applebaum · 24/11/2010 21:37

dittany at 11.58 you said this:

'It doesn't sound to me like she has any kind of disorder, it sounds to me like she's been brought up in abusive situations and is reacting to them.'

Abusive situations can cause a disorder. So the latter part of your sentence is correct. Smile

The poor OP is struggling here, long-term, with a very difficult child. There are many possibilities that she should be thinking about. A 'disorder' is one of many.

'Beaten as a child' or 'smothered as a child' or 'ignored as a child' or any other serious troubled aspect of a child's upbringing may produce difficult behaviour (you call them 'abusive situations') and perhaps this is what the OP and her child are having to deal with.

Do not dismiss 'disorders' (however you personally translate that) as nonsense.

The op is reaching out for help and finding a 'label' may help her to decide whether her child needs professional help, or is just a distressed child 'brought up in an abusive situation'.

dittany · 24/11/2010 21:47

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applebaum · 24/11/2010 22:00

Sad I am sorry if I have upset you dittany. I Am trying to help mummie .

It can be soul destroying having a difficult child who doesn't know who they really are. You have to be everything to them. You have to be disciplinarian and loving parent. Boundary-maker and giver.

But I would say again, they may need more professional help than we can offer.

dittany · 24/11/2010 22:07

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Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:11

hi all, thanks for your input, it is all interesting...

I just want to keep reading for now rather then respond.

What I will add is that I did not know I was in an abusive marriage and I did not leave, I found out 9 months later from csu at the police, it has taken me a long time to realise just how dysfunctional things were and still are with my family of origin. I think I always knew and I was determined when my children were born to do things differently, I did, it is not to the satifaction of normality I realise that, so instead of battering and mentally torturing the children and threatening that on them, I was too weak, I realised that was not great, I had no skills to do anything different so I read and attended parenting classes when they were younger, I am still working on myself... The thing is a very controlling man could not control dd as a child himself, he said months before leaving when we both took her to the gp he felt a failure as a parent, yet he then would quickly blame me and kept demanding I attend more parenting classes which I did, it never occured to him to attend any, nor I, I took on the blame, things would be diffent now... Also the grandparents saw the behaviour, and mil (controlling one) wanted to prove to us that dd would not behave like that with her, she failed, my father who is mentally disordered told me many times he used to bheave as dd did when he was a child, this has all been deep inside me the whole time this worry, hence why we went before ex left to see the gp!

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:14

Re professional help, I saw the psychologist today and we discussed some things including this... so this issue has been broken down a bit more, into me maintaining who I am, me working within the limits of my ability and working to make boundaries better with dd so that there is respect from her and self worth from me for myself as dd has no respect for me as due to situations in the past that were exaserbated by ex's issues in family court destroyed bits of me as a human being and mother!

OP posts:
CrawlingInMySkin · 24/11/2010 22:19

Please take her to see someone professional. This may sound silly but she may have a MH problem and with some if they are untreated they get worse. I have had a MHD since I was a child but as I had a bad home life people put it down to that, if I had recieved treatment earlier my disorder would not have een as severe.

Your DD sounds very difficult and it sounds to me like you are doing a good job in what is a very trying time. Even if your DD does not have a disorder talking through some of her problems may help her to understand them better. HTH Smile dont give up on her op.

dignified · 24/11/2010 22:24

My freinds experiencing this at the moment . Her dcs attack her , verbally insult her and taunt her to the point i think many parents would snap . Ive seen her young dc attack her , and occasionally i have wanted to shake her , to see her cowering from a three foot child seems absurd , but then i remember , not that long ago that was me.

Freind has also just got rid of a nasty ex , shes down , in fact , shes on her knees , beleiving she is useless , fat , ugly , everything is her fault ect . Her childrens verbal insults are like an echo of her ex.

Im quite sure in normal circumstances she would not tolerate this for one second , but for now , she cant cope , she has no confidence at all , and worse , her dcs behaviour make it difficult for visiters meaning shes isolated too. Of course , no one wants to babysit either so she never gets out .

Her neighbours complain about the noise , people in our local area criticize her because she cant control her kids , i can understand it , but it reinforces the idea that she is a crap mum and isnt up to the job , which is what shes frequently been told and now beleives . My one voice has no effect against the many critical ones she hears .

Are you getting out at all Mummie ? Is your daughter involved in any clubs or teams ? If not , is it something you could consider doing together ? Theres fitness clubs , dance classes , martial arts , canoeing , swimming ,all sorts where you can go as a family and often theyre realtiveley cheap.

This helped mine a lot , being part of a team gave her some pride , and it was also important for her to see other people treating me with respect and decency . And trying new things did me good too , i met new people and started to get some confidence back.

I remember going to a social event where people rushed over and warmly greeted me , ill never forget it , dd looked surprised and said , " wow mum , everyone likes you , your really popular ". I think she expected everyone to hate me GrinShe also received a warm welcome and i know she was surprised that my freinds liked her , having assumed i had told everyone how horrible she was.

I made a list of things i wanted to change / acheive. Some were massive , like learning to drive and going to Uni , others were tiny like making the effort to straighten my hair at least twice a week , but with each thing i started to feel better .

Beware well meaning freinds too , who tell you how they couldnt put up with it , how bad she is , how do you cope ect. Avoid negative talk and negative people . You need people around you who are kind and supportive and tell you what a fab job your doing and how this is only temporary. If no ones saying that to you , say it to yourself , be your own best freind.

Listen to feel good music , feel good tv , watch carefully how the mood is altered in your house . At times i could actually see the misery spreading from person to person. But In the same way my dd could turn the atmosphere negative within seconds , i realised i could turn it positive , it really does catch.

At first i could only do it for 5 min before feeling defeated , then 15 , then a few hours , eventually i could do it for a whole evening . It was hard though , and i often felt i was having to emotionally babysit everyone , but it really did work.

This will get better for you Mummie , look what youve acheived , i see your kind supportive posts frequently on here ,your a nice person and this will turn out ok.

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:27

I am sorry if people think I have given up on dd, I am still here, I feel that for the good of myself and my two daughters that a break from dd2 would do us all good every second weekend and maybe a short stay with a "normal" family so she coud see that it is normal for mothers to ask the child to hang up their coat and stuff like that... I have taken dd to professionals as I have said earlier, she is five foot and very strong, how the hell can I drag her to appointments with pofessionals if she won't go, I have learned not to do things like book cinema tickets as she will sabotage appointments and it wastes money and causes more poblems, so like with harry potter, we turned just turned up and hoped for the best, she won't do out of school activities, this has been on going since when they started, she would not want to go, would not want me to leave her the list is so very long. When I spoke to ss about the situation (they are not involved this was the duty one on the phone, when I asked for restbite and they told me they would go to family first) they told me that mh professionals will not come out to children, the child has to come to them and that if the child does not want to go they won't make progress it is like a reluctant adult, they have to want to go!

OP posts:
Gettingagrip · 24/11/2010 22:28

Mummie...I believe from my family that these things have a genetic element to them. The evidence is too great to dismiss. This is also becoming accepted now in professional circles.

My heart goes out to you. You must find the strength from somewhere to keep on fighting for some help for you and your daughter. There will be someone out there who can help you. You must try to read up all you can about what abusive parenting can do to children's minds.

There are many people on this site , myself included, who did not even realise we were being abused, as we were brought up in abusive families and we thought that was normal. Please keep posting for advice and support. Children's brains are still growing and developing until they are in their early twenties, so you do still have time to help your daughter.

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:32

I do a lot of those things, I love katie perry firework right now x I have booked for a load of family learning classes as I have done before as she is not keen on any of the classes I have suggested, she has rejected them all so I will have to cancel or go without her with other dd... I have wasted so much money over the years on classes she refuses to go to...

I have removed negative influences from my life a year ago, I used to have a very active social life, I no longer do as a result, sadly there are few good ones, and the one's there are I do not see often and am not very close to.

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:33

Getting i realise that they are not fully formed yet x thanks for the post and other information x

OP posts:
Gettingagrip · 24/11/2010 22:34

Mummie...what does your daughter enjoy doing?

Mummiehunnie · 24/11/2010 22:36

exercise, which we do normally, unfortunatly I have been extra imobile lately actually for half of the year to varying degrees, thankfully that is getting better, that is the way things are, irratic mobility for all three of us due to condition!

OP posts:
Gettingagrip · 24/11/2010 22:37

So you need to build on that with her somehow...does shes play sport? what kind of exercise?