unsure where to go with daughter

[Mummiehunnie]

I am a single parent and the youngest has always been hard work, this has been noticed by everyone who has seen her in action, it was always worse with me than with her father however she was the same with him when he was around. He is the most controlling person going and he could not control her either! She is good at school! I took her with the ex a few months before he left to see the gp to get a referral nothing happened, I took her privately and asked if she had adhd or something they said as she sat in school she did not... ex blamed her behaviour on me, our other child is normal range of behaviour...

I am sick to the back teeth of being beaten up, I am sick to the back teeth of being a slave to her physically and emotionally... I feel trapped and the situation is bringing me further down...

I have escaped abuse from other people and I feel I am trapped with her, there is no one else around, they were all abusive and would not help anyways, I have begged twice for social services to take her on short term care, they say they would go to the family, if that happened she would just beat me up more...

i am having therapy for the abuse from the past and the therapist knows the situation, she is trying to help me build up my self esteem.

I had a ed psy come for two years to the house, dd would not engage, I worked on myself...

A friend once suggest dd had oppositional disorder, I am worred getting her counselling as I am scared she will say something wrong, for example if you go on the computer once for half an hour when she is watching tv she will say I am on the computer all the time.... and I am worried that someone will believe her. I am also scared as ex told lies about me to the authorities in the past... I feel trapped I know she needs help, I feel if I get her help she will hang me, and I am sick of being hanged for other people's issues...

I think that it would be best if someone else brought up dd as that way they can fix what me and ex made wrong, I want her to be happy and normal, I don't think I can achieve that, I am too slow and weak!

Mummie , im sorry to hear this is happening .

I think this happens a lot more than people realise after an abusive relationship ends , i think theres a chapter about in in lundy bancrofts book.

Ive experienced similar , and ive seen freinds dcs step into the role once their husbands are gone . Its not really talked about and theres very little support .

The womans centre i attended ( referred by womens aid ) offered counselling and classes to children and was very aware of this problem. Perhaps give womens aid a call and see whats available in your area .

Id perhaps go down that route as opposed to social services ect , the fact shes only doing it to you suggests its not a disorder of some kind , but actually bullying .

I remember reading the Lundy Bancroft book and recognising My EH. But i could also recognise my young daughter too . I was advised to detatch a little , withdraw anything that wasnt a basic necessity. Not much fun when your battling over the tv for 4 hours , or being threatened with them claiming abuse .

It really is a battle of wills , and you can get this back on track. Dont engage with her for now , ring womens aid and arrange some proper support.

Thanks dignified, for that, i will ring them x i will also look out for the book, I ordered a load the other day so will try and order that also....

It helps to hear that this happens a lot in this sort of situation!

Do you mind sharing how you managed to get things back on track with your dd? How is your dd now? how long did it take?

can you please share more about these classes?

mummie...i know exactly where you are coming from....i have a dd who is similiar. her dad is same as your ex. i feel the same about the abuse....i left him,but i cant leave her,and she is the bloody same!!! her siblings point this out to her too.

my dd has now,over past 7 months,progressed to being trouble in school. she had previously been fine. so a caf report has been done,of which i'm waiting outcome. our docs was useless too.

i'm also thinking oppositional disorders. her father has a personality disorder (properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist),so fear its in her genes in some way.

my dd is 14 now....puberty/teenage angst....its hell sometimes,others great. i fear for her siblings when left alone with her. its hard.

Mummie , if she wont pick up her uniform she,ll have to go in wearing a dirty one , tough titty . She actually has NO power apart from what you give her . Disengage , its a power struggle .

I know its easier said than done , does she break stuff ? If so she pays for it. Dont explain , or defend yourself from the goading things she says , ignore ignore ignore . You wouldnt bother responding if she said you had purple hair , so dont respond to any other nonsense.

Harry Potter my arse . She has to earn treats like that , and not by being decent or picking up for just one day .Would you respect someone who,ll still take you to Harry Potter despite the fact you treat them like crap ?

If you look on the NPD thread there was another poster a while ago struggling with the exact same thing . Brave of you to post Mummie , and its not just you , and your not weak at all , your just overwhelmed and its not surprising .

Hi MH

I used to work for a charity doing one-to-one and group work with children and young people. My funding came from SS, Police, Education Welfare etc. but I wasn't a social worker and so had more time and flexibility. I also wasn't as scary to the families!

Google for local YIPs or speak to Connexions (or whatever it is now). 10 is just a shade too young for these but I had the discretion to work with children as young as 10 if they were very challenging and I had a referral from some sort of government agency.

Good luck!

Mummie - good advice from Dignified.

Hi,
I think you're dd has difficulties expressing herself - maybe she's a very strong character. I have a ds who is similar (very high maintenance) and after 2 'normal' and easy girls he was a real shock. I think you have recognised that she would benefit from counselling - don't be afraid of it - counselling will be confidential and you won't be accused of neglect for going on the PC. I would really recommend you get it sorted before she hit the teens so she's at a good age. I'm fortunate that I have my DH to help with DS, at times when he was a toddler is so tough, he constantly tested boundaries. He is still similar but I've learned to deal with him (not always but mostly). He demands and needs lots of interaction and he works well with rewards rather than punishments. An example - telling him to pick up clothes won't work, but if we offer him a reward for it (star chart) he will rush around to do it. Another example - after school he will run around (he has loads of energy and doesn't need to sleep much) I have 2 choices - either chase him to get him to go home or let him burn out his energy. I would prefer the 'quiet' child who's tired after school but I didn't get that. In other ways ds is fab, a real character, strong and determined which will enable him to be successful in life. What does your DD do really well? What character traits does she have which you can see are very positive? She seems very determined so that can be very useful. Does she do activities and does she have any close friends? I would really recomemnd counselling - just someone for her to chat to - it will help her to learn to talk to you about her frustrations.

Sorry - haven't read all the thread, but there is usually a Family Support Worker tied in to each SureStart childrens centre - maybe give your local one a call & they should be able to put you in touch with him/her?

Good luck I do feel for you. We've had 8 years of it and dd is now 13, 5"7, nearly 90 kg, and she hurts.

I've had to go round with huge bruises after being attacked, probably everyone in the village thought it was dh. We've wondered about ODD, she seems to fit it. We've had to call out the emergency gp, who prescribed sedatives for when she has a 'crise', but she refuses to take them.

The psychologist, at the equivalent of CAMHS, says it's adolescence, but it's been going on since she was 5.

The only light at the end of the tunnel at times, is that in 5 years we can change the locks.

Houseproject - I was given that advice as well. Rewards have a really positive effect, rather than concentrating only on punishments, and it's more about the child comprehending there WILL BE consequences to bad behaviour.

A child is not feeling happy being like this.

Mummie , the classes / counselling for her was offered but she wouldnt go , she was a young teen but had been a pain for a few years , but it escalated horribly when i kicked EH out , she would often be violent. and i wouldnt dare leave her alone with her siblings.

I think they counsell them to address their abusive behaviour and the impacts of it . Despite it being run by womans aid i was afraid that she would perceive this as a reward , more attention , more of the familys time spent on her , she would have took delight that things had gotton so bad that i had had to seek out counselling for her . I also feared she would learn how to abuse better .

And i was also scared of what she might say , ie , false claims of abuse ect. It didnt matter because she wouldnt go anyway , but i think they are natural worrys. However , at ten , you can make her go , and i would.

I think it took about 18 months to level out , and it meant i had to disengage a lot which was hard but necessary. There was really big improvements for me , i suddenly stopped being afraid of her , the things she said were like water of a ducks back while previously they had made me cry .

If she didnt like me , hated me ect , tough shit .Its a lot easier to do when you disengage. My counseller did all the usual things , ie ,imagine a bubble round you ect ect , sounds daft but it did work. Her feelings are her own , dont let her transfer them onto you , she,ll need help in order to process her own feelings , but that doesnt mean feel sorry for her .

If you feel guilty about whats happened with your ex , dump it quickly . YOU havent been abusive , but you have got rid of him which is no easy task. You sound like a great mum , start telling yourself that regularly , they can smell guilt a mile off and will play on it .

Tidying up after herself ect , i wouldnt bother , its a deliberate strategy designed to get your goat and give her loads of attention over . Mine was so bad it was knee deep in crap , it would actually spill out onto the hallway and i would simply occasionally kick it all back in and shut the door on it.

Not washing / dirty clothes " I dont want any tea " after ive spent an hour cooking - no problem , stink and be hungry then. Want to leave mouldy festering plates in your room ? Doesnt bother me one bit.

Pick your battles carefully . I would also consider speaking with the community police officer , is it possible they could actually " arrest " her next time she assaults you , but not give any cautions ? I know a few parents whove give their kids a fright in this way.

Dittany - SS believe that the children are in danger in these situations, they are being subjected to the exposure of bad stuff/learning wrong behaviour in life/affecting their development (emotionally/educationally),that if the mother gets hurt physically(emotionally) she cannot care for them, mother not able, because of the abuse she suffers, to be able to protect the children and make the right decisions for them.

I meant to add Mummie , if she is spending time with ex , or other abusive people this wont be helping and should be addressed.

There came a time when mine began to reflect on their own behaviour and felt extremeley guilty . They also bagan to reflect on their dads behaviour and began to recognise it as abusive. They went through the same disbeleif , and shock , that we do , its hard for them to come to terms with .

I think there are also some good books for children available too .

You wrote- I don't agree with SS taking children from mothers........

Mummie , have you ever spoken to her about her dads behaviour ? Is he bad mouthing you to her do you think ? This has quite a devestating effect on them and is grounds to stop contact in my opinion.

By disengage , i dont mean ignore or abandon , just to choose to not react emotionally if possible , and not let it affect you .

Ooops , that sounded a bit flippant which i didnt mean. Of course its going to affect you and affect you emotionally , but you can choose to not show it . Save it for later when shes in bed if you can .

I wasn't sure whether to post on this thread, as it is a bit close to the bone for me, but I think I will if it may be of some use.

I had this scenario...abusive exH, one DC seemingly 'ok', one Dc starting to treat me just as his father had done.

I have history of personality disorders in both sides of my family, and also in the family I married into.

I left my marriage, and hoped that this would be a turning point for the DC heading down the abuser path.

The reason your DC are so different in reacting to the situation they find themselves in is because they have different genes. DC can be treated to the same parenting in a family and turn out totally differently...it's all down to the genes they have.

Also, I know that if you think you can see your abusive father's ( EXH's , or whomever)actions mirrored in your child's behaviours, it is very difficult to say...'well this is not your father (or whomever)...this is a different person', and react to them in a different manner.

And of course, we DO parent our different children differently, even if we think we don't.

I think I have actually managed to save my son from going down the abuser path. I am not saying he is perfect, and he still can be very arrogant, but due to my persistence, he is improved greatly since the influence of his father and other in-laws has been reduced.

I think that he has been improved by MY actions and reactions to him. I have done alot of work on myself, (psychotherapy for a year now), I have read a great deal about parenting, particularly parenting difficult children, and I have never stopped telling him, and showing him, that I love him. However, that love comes along with very tight boundaries, which I have been able to relax a little recently.

I have not tolerated any of the things I did tolerate previously. It would not be in his interest to grow up as an arrogant mysogynist. He would never be able to have a relationship with a woman had he ended up like his father.

I think what I am trying to say is...don't give up. That is the wors thing you can do. I know it's really really hard, but you must not give up on her. Try and find some advice about parenting. Try not to see her father in her. If I can do it and be succesful, anyone can...as I had no role model at all for parenting from my own parents, and ALL my efforts to parent my own children were undermined by my exH.

I hope this helps a little bit.

thanks for your posts, there is a lot to think about to see if it is relevant, either i have not made myself clear on a few things or there has been a misunderstanding by some posters, the most significant ones are ex is not in children's lives and he was not physical, it was gaslighting/brainwashing/lieing/twisting events that type of thing mainly...

I don't get a break, I am 24/7/365 no second weekends for me, so I don't know why I am getting a hard time by admitting that I would like a break every second weekend, or for a short period of time from a challenging child... need to read again later poperly, my head is hurting from crying too much!