Help needed in a seperation

[SimonHoward]

Where to start?

The begining I suppose. And with the facts.

After almost 6.5 years together, and 5 of them being married, my wife and I are in the early/middle stages of seperating. She decided earlier this year to finally tell me why the physical side of our relationship had always been terrible after the first few months, and that was because she was a lesbian and didn't like men but had been too scared of what people would say if she admitted it.

So the situation is this, I have a job that I cannot keep up if my wife moves out as I cannot pay the bills and pay for childcare and I will not let her take our daughter with her as she is going to end up renting a room and that is it due to her unwillingness to do what needs to be done to support herself and also a complete lack of money sense or the abilty to control her spending.

I can't even afford to pay all the bills on my salary alone so I will probably have to sell my house and move myself and my daughter back in with my mother (who knows how long for).

The main thing I would like advice on if anyone has any is what legally can I do with the equity from the sale of the house as even before DD arrived the money my wife contributed usually only just covered the food and the outstanding debts she had built up before meeting me that I paid off for her, and since DD's arrival what she contributes does not even cover the food bill each month.

As she is the one that after all this time has suddenly sprung these changes on me is there any way I can hold onto more than 50% of the equity as I want to try to save the money and use it towards the deposit for a new place of my own so DD and I have our own house/flat.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Not to be flippant, but does anyone remember the tv programme Soap? Simon, you are living that programme!

Lillibet

I do remember soap (god that is showing my age).

So long as I'm not shot, stabbed, suffocated and bludgeoned in the shower I'm ok about being in it though .

Aloha

You are keeping track of this better than me at times. LOL.

Update for anyone who may be interested.

I am 3 weeks away from my x2b moving out with my daughter and I'm not so slowly falling to bits. Even though we have agreed about access and visitations I'm still terrified that she is going to turn nasty and stop me from seeing my daughter.

The house sale is not going smoothly either.

And on top of it all my x2b does not seem at all upset or concerned about the effect this is having on me.

I almost broke down after packing up most of the house recently to get it ready. To think that after over 5 years of building this house up to be a home we wanted it has all been ripped apart by her deciding she doesn't want what she has told me she does for so long and it does not seem to matter one iota to her.

Xmas was quiet and when my DD was not around very strained. New Year was heaven as x2b went to her g/f's for 3 days and I had my DD around.

The only good thing happening is that I'm going to go and live with my new g/f.

Does anyone have any experience of trying to get a divorce processed whilst out of the country?

Aloha

The new G/F is living in Germany and is younger than me and already has 2 daughters from a previous marriage.

Simon so sorry to hear that it is finally happening and that it is all so stressful, but I guess it couldn't really be anything else. Have you drawn up a formal agreement with x2b re access?

Don't know about the other matter ie being abroad, I shouldn't think it will make much difference but how are you going to get to see your dd regularly if you are in Germany?

CD

I have drawn up an agreement. Just got to get x2b to sign it.

As for seeing her I will be having her with me 4 months a year till she is 5 and then we will be sorting out where it would be best for her to go to school. The first time I will be having my DD though is almost 6 months away so I'll be coming back to the UK sometime in that period to see her.

I have a webcam and so does x2b and DD has already worked out what they are for as she has seen friends of mine on cam and waved to them. I know they start early but it is scary how fast she adapted to pictures on the PC and also to talking on the phone.

To be honest I'm hoping my x2b mucks up and breaks the agreement we have as one of the clauses in it says that if either of us do that then my DD goes to the other parent until whatever problems caused the muck up to occur have been sorted and then a new agreement will be hammered out.

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Twinkie

My feelings towards my x2b are basically that I think she should not be walking away from the relationship and dragging everyone and everything down because she chose to lie to me for years and then decide she didn't want what she said she wanted for so long.

As for wanting my x2b to muck up, sorry but I'm human and can at least admit my frailties.

And as for my daughter, all I have ever wanted was the best for her and to be honest I don't think that will happen with her mum dragging her off to her g/f's but I admit I am biased.

As time goes on I'm thinking more and more that the whole marriage was just a good excuse for my x2b to get pregnant as she always wanted kids. Now she has one and I forced the issue she decided to come clean about what her real preferences are.

I can't prove this and I doubt she will ever admit it but my x2b came into the relationship with virtually nothing, has been given everything she said was a goal for her (house, garden, baby, husband etc.) and then just turned around and said she wanted out and will walk away with more, far far more than she ever put into the marriage. And no that is not just sour grapes, friends and family have asked me if I am mad in letting her take as much as I have agreed to but I want my daughter safe and well looked after.

To be honest I don't care about the money. If I got none of it then that is life and I'd deal with it.

What is really galling though is that she has always assumed that it is her right to take our daughter and that I'd be happy with very limited access. I have had to argue long and hard to get the access that I have now (originally she wanted me to see her just in the day for one day a week if I wasn't working. This was before I was moving to germany though) and I'm going to do everything I possibly can to keep it and if that means hoping that she mucks up so that I can see more of my daughter then I'll admit to being petty and small minded.

As for the 'Victim' bit, hell yes I'm the victim in this but even more so is my daughter who is having her life ripped apart by her mothers selfishness and inability to deal with the consequences of her actions.

And considering my x2b has stated before Twinkie that she is doing all this as she is now looking out for herself as no-one in her life has ever looked out for her I'd class that as showing that she doesn't care. Especially as all I have ever done for her is, and it is a lot, now considered as nothing by her.

And Twinkie I'm glad you aren't my g/f as the one I have has been very supportive and is one of the 2 things that have kept me from going completely insane over this.

simon, as I have said before, I really feel for what you are going through and sympathise. There's just one thing you have said a few times that makes my hair stand on end - that your ex2b came into the relationship with virtually nothing.
Apart from bearing you a child, do you think that she added anything of value to your life? Or would you perhaps have been better marrying a woman with money? I'm sorry, I can see that it is relevant now, but at the time, what she had (financially) when she came into the relationship doesn't seem to have anything to do with the kind of person she is. She may well be a total bitch, but what does her financial status pre-you have to do with anything?

Droile

I do think my x2b has added to my life. She showed me how wonderful fatherhood can be but apart from that everything else we seemed to have had was based on lies so I now have doubts about everything else we ever did. It is a terrible thing when you can't even trust the person you have loved to tell you the truth. Even now I can't get a straight answer from her as she tells me one thing and then tells relatives something else.

The reason for my concern over the money is that she seems to think that no matter how little or much she may have put into the relationship that she is entitiled to at least 50% of everything if not more all because she and I had a child together.

As for marrying a rich woman, that would not bother me one way or another. It's not the money that is the issue it's the fact that she thinks that it is her right to take me for half of everything even though it is her choice to walk away from the relationship and not even try.

If it had been the other way around and it was me going and I had caused the split up then I'd be expecting to take my stuff and that is it. The rest would stay with her as it was my fault. Maybe I'm being niave and expecting others to do the 'Right' thing but I was always brought up to admit when I'm wrong (and at times it is not easy) and then live with the consequences.

Simon - you MUST get the legal aspect of this sorted out or she could change her mind in an instant!!! Have you got a Solicitor? I bet she has!

So sorry this is all happening to you. It must be heartbreaking. She sounds like she is being very callous.

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SH. I sympathise. Certainly if I married someone with nothing - no income, no home etc, provided the lot for them and loved them dearly, and then they abruptly left me, took my child away and said that they had always been gay and were going off to live with their boyfriend and that they wre going to take everything I'd ever worked for and that I'd hardly ever see my child again, you bet I'd be bitter. Much more bitter than you. We women are lucky. We hardly ever risk losing our children. Twinkie is a sad exception in that she doesn't have her daughter living with her because her husband was violent. But even she sees her daughter more than most dads do (of course, Twinkie, you know I think your ex is a total bastard and I support your case totally). My dh's ex walked out on him for another man and wanted everything but he fought and fought, and refused to move out and basically roll over and hand her everything on a plate. She's still spitting mad about it even now - ten years later, while she's married to a millionaire and has three more children. She has tried very hard to destroy my dh (&me) financially and stop him seeing his daughter. You feel betrayed, lied to and you risk losing pretty much everything. I think you have every right to feel angry. It's all very well us telling Simon to be a saint for the sake of his daughter, but frankly, that's not always the advice we give to women in his position. Imagine a mumsnetter posting that her husband recently said he was gay, was leaving her for another man and wanted half her home, her earnings and her savings and was also taking away her child!! He's agreed to let his daughter go without a fight for her sake, and I think it's hard to think of a bigger sacrifice.

Simon is this document drawn up by a solicitor. I hope so.

I would be very wary about leaving the country were I you. And is it not going to be v disruptive for your dd spending such huge amounts of time with one parent and then the other. Would it not be better to stay in UK and do for eg alternate weeks? Won't she miss the other parent terribly if it's for so long and every time you send her back won't she pine for you?

Well said Aloha!

One thing SH, I wonder if you are rushing into moving to Germany to be with your gf. It will cut down the amount of time you can spend with your dd drastically which is a big deal when she is so young. I can understand your desire to be with someone after how much you've been hurt, but your dd will presumably miss you a lot and regular contact with both of you is better IMO than big blocks of time with one to the exclusion of the other at this age.
And Dadslib is right, sort of. Even though I can understand your anger and sense of injustice, you are likely to lose at least half the value of your house to your ex and will have to keep paying maintenance (though I am sure you would do that for your dd anyway). to find out how much you can contact the CSA - they will tell you over the phone.

CD, exactly what I was trying to say.

SimonHoward,

Sorry you find yourself in this situation. I hope I'm not interfering here but can't help thinking that if you don't want just limited access or a 50/50 split then you need to start fighting legally sooner rather than later. Also I fear that the idea of moving to Germany could be so easily turned against you, to reduce your chances of getting residency, even on a shared basis.

I am sorry that things have not worked out.I think you neeed to get legal advice as to your situation,if you leave the UK. The law is not so simple once you are talking about shared custody across 2 different countries.The Hague Convention is very definite in situations where children are being "fought over" by parents in different countries.As you are both British and you are only now going to live in a foreign country, maybe it will be different for you, but I would recommend good legal advice NOW before you leave the UK.

I would also advise you to think long and hard before suddenly upping and moving to another country at this point in your life.Whatever happens I wish you luck.

I see what you are all saying, but if my hypothetical husband/boyfriend had been providing daycare for our child, then I would view that as his 'financial' contribution (lost earnings, no childminding fees to py, etc) and I wouldn't expect him to walk out of the relationship with nothing. If he had been contributing as most women do, then he would have been running the house, which takes time and labour, etc, etc. All I'm saying is that we have to place equal value on these things, otherwise SAHMs (and dads) are viewed as valueless when the relationship comes to an end.
There is a subtext here that says 'ALL he/she did was look after the children and home' - I believe that this 'all' is actually quite a lot. If we went round saying 'all he/she does is earn the money', it wouldn't go down very well.

As for fault and blame - these no longer come into in when considering custody and financial agreements in divorce. Thank goodness.

But Simon, I understand why you feel bitter - I would too.

TBH simon, you might find yourself with just as much to grumble about financially if she'd had a high-paying job all these years and you'd both been paying high nursery fees. The house would still be split, you'd still be paying maintenance (to a nanny/nursery instead of your ex2b, but what's the difference?) but your child would not have had the benefit of time at home with a parent. (I'm not saying that working and nurseries are bad - don't jump on me, I work p/time!). It's just that she could have been the kind of person who puts no time into your child at all, works really long hours, etc, and HAD contributed financially. You'd still be in the same hard place. I really don't think her salary would have been much consolation to you.

CD

The agreement is not drawn up by a solicitor but we are going to one to get it checked over.

Aloha

Even if I stay in the UK I'd have to move to another part of the country where I have no one I know and try to get a place to live and then I doubt I'd actually see more of my daughter than I have already arranged as I'd have to work full time anyway. As for the CSA I have been informed that they only get involved when asked so unless something has changed then they should not be involved. I have agreed an amount to pay as maintenance and that will be reviewed when DD is first at school and x2b can start full time work.

LIZS

both x2b and I are trying to avoid confrontation over this and will be only going to courts for the divorce once we have told our legal teams what we have agreed to. I have done some research and I can't see a judge overrulling an amicable agreement just for the sake of it.

GRMUM

I have thought long and hard about it. It has been on my mind to the exclusion of a lot of other things for quite some time. As for difficulties with me being in another country if need be I can move back to my mothers while I'm getting things sorted out.

Droile

my x2b has looked after our DD wonderfully and I cannot fault her on that. As for the looking after the house, well lets just say that what I consider looking after the house and what she did differed massively, so from a personal point of view she did very little around the house even before DD arrived and what she did was never up to the standard I had always been brought up to expect (I admit to having high standards but being told by her that she doesn't bother doing things properly because I can't fire her for doing them wrong or not at all is possibly a bit much, and yes she did say that to me). As for the money side if she had never worked but put the time in at home then I'd be happy with it and not have a problem but for most of our relationship her biggest task at home was doing the cleaning as almost every other task was either shared or done by me and she usually couldn't even do that. That is all in the past though. Time to move on.

M2T

Neither of us have a solicitor currently and due to the fact the local ones charge £140 an hour for an initial consultation neither of us is likely to until after the house is sold and we have some money.

just a quick update.

Have found a solicitor that does fixed fee divorces and am seeing him next Tuesday afternoon to get things started.