Sunday Night Row - Am i being ridiculous?

[Esme69]

Ok, another sunday night spoiled by a silly disagreement. Help me out here, and give me your opinions.

We have a tv room and also a "good" sitting room in our house. Me and Dh have been using the good room now more at this time of the year as it has a fireplace and we have been lighting the fire a lot.

In this room, instead of a coffee table there is a beautifully and expensively upholstered ottoman which I got done a few years ago. It is not possible to wash or clean this as it is totally upholstered into the wood frame, so if I am putting my feet up on it which I often do, I would always remove my shoes first, and have asked my dh to do the same. Usually he ignores this request until I remind him, or ask him does he want me to put on the loose cover so he can put his fett up without removing shoes but he usually takes off the shoes at that point. The thing is my dh would come in to the house with wet feet, not wipe his feet, never removes dirty shoes before going on to carpet and its one of his pet hates people who excpect you to remove your shoes in their house.

I am not requiring him to do that, just ot not plonk the shoes he has been wearing outside in the wet on this lovely fabric in the nicest room in the house. I dont think this is unreasonable.

Tonight, he stuck the shoes up on the ottoman, I asked him to remove the shoes, normally he would do so, this time he just rolled his eyes and said this was ridiculous and he just wanted to relax in his own house and that if he took off shoes his feet would be cold, FFS in front of a roaring fire, and then he just went ahead and put the feet up shoes and all.

I am PISSED off with him cos even if he thinks I am being silly, he could respect my wishes, not LEAST becuase he messed up our weekend by going out drinking really late with his brother fri nite (till 3am) and came home and passed out in the kitchen, I was awake till he got home and then couldnt sleep for ages after cos he has form on this, and was so tired the next day I could not take my dd to ballet lesson in the next town, and had to look after our dc while he was hungover, AND we were having people to dinner last night and I had loads to do to prepare for that.

This evening he apologised profusely for being a selfish prick and disrupting our saturday and promised to not repeat that. but in those circs i would have thought tonight he might have at least respected my wishes even if he did not agree with them

I feel that he is such a selfish man who really always puts himself first and even when he says sorry never really practically tries to make amends or show his remorse..

This is a bit long and rambling, but feeling really disprespected, i went up to bed early instead of watching a programme we were meant to watch together, i said goodnight but did not kiss him and now he will come up soon and make a big deal out of this, my not kissing him, will say that I a making way to much out of this whole issue and that I am pathetic for reacting like this

Am i?

Esme - He doesn't compromise? So what was he doing when he cut down his late drinking sessions significantly? Because that certainly sounds like compromise.

I'm not saying you should be happy with the situation you're in. His behaviour sounds awful and I wouldn't stay if there was no way to change the dynamic. I'm just saying you don't sound like you're being particularly reasonable either. You sound (from this thread) like you think all the change has to come from him and if I were him I wouldn't be interested in talking about it on that basis.

Ok. I am kind of upset now.
He came home this evening offering to get dinner to make up for fri night, he could see I was kind of quiet in myself and he asked what was wrong.

I told him that the whole hitting fists against the wall thing upset me becuase I found it very intimadating and also a very disproportionate reaction to whatever I had said or done to annoy him.

So he agreed that it wasnt good, and probably dispropotionate but that it was borne out of frustration at not being able to communicate with me.

I said that I did not think I was that difficult to communicate with, and then he said that I had no idea how difficult it was to communicate with me at times.

As this discussion went round and round in circles he then did what he always does which is to say that I am much more articulate than him, (I have a degree in English and worked in the legal profession) and that I tie him up in knots with clever words.

The thing that hurts the most about that is that when we first met, one of the things that he said he loved about me was that I had a great way with words, loved books and was so articulate, and now, apparently it is something he finds threatening and a negative thing.

I thought we had reached a compromise, loose cover on ottoman from now on and on the sofa, but he has done it with realy bad grace, making it sound like it is being imposed on him, referring to my "precious furniture" and stuff in that tone.

This is shit really, i am really pissed off.

SuchPros - I dont think that the cutting down of the drinking sessions is a compromise, he had to do that for his own sake as much as anything, it was affecting his job as well as our marriage and he drove after drinking one afternoon which really prompted a re think on the whole drinking thing.

4 alcoholics in his mothers family, this man should not drink at all imo, but he controls it now, (most of the time).

Esme - just read your thread and really feel for you. Is there something you could do to make a point - i.e. show a similar lack of respect towards something important to him? Perhaps he is precious over his CD collection for example and you could make a point that way? I'm not suggesting you actually do something - just that you use it as an example to him - i.e. "how would you feel if I did xy to your z? And especially if you had asked me (many times) not to do that thing?"

Frankly if his feet are that cold he can't bear to take his outside shoes off I'd be getting him down the GP to check his circulation. Heavy drinking (does he smoke too?) does bad things to the arteries.

Learning to chill out in comfy slippers might help him chill out full stop.

Sounds like a guy who would really benefit from therapy. Don't suppose he'll do himself a favour and go though.

Cutting down on frequent binge drinking sessions that leave your partner with sole care of your children isn't a compromise ffs

Compromise is finding a solution to a disagreement that all parties can agree is fair. It does not mean finding the halfway point between one person's unreasonable behaviour and the other person's misery.

Esme, I don't know you but the old chestnut of you being 'so much more articulate' than him struck me straight away as a master stroke of manipulation. Basically, he cannot justify his behaviour so this is his 'get out of jail card' because there is no argument against it. It's basically a way of telling you to shut up.

Also, Such Prospects, I have to take issue with: "You sound (from this thread) like you think all the change has to come from him and if I were him I wouldn't be interested in talking about it on that basis."

In a healthy marriage with two decent people, compromise is a good thing. With a manipulative or abusive partner, it achieves nothing apart from further abuse of the victim. It is not compromise when one person stops doing something unreasonable and the other has to then stop doing something perfectly reasonable. At its most extreme, it's like a violent man agreeing not to hit his wife if she 'compromises' by no longer going out with her friends. That's not a compromise, that's bullying, and that's why compromise/marriage guidance doesn't work with abusers.

What is the OP doing wrong that she should compromise on? She has to clean the ottoman so how is she being unreasonable by asking him not to put his dirty outdoor feet on it?

I know a lot of people will think that this is a complete over-reaction on my part, but treating your partner like an unpaid maid and belittling her when she dares to complain about it is NOT on and is reasonable grounds for divorce. There are some people who just aren't aware of it of how much their other half does and how unfair they are being by not helping or adding unthinkingly to the workload. When it is explained to them a decent person will begin to pull their weight. When there is no change and there are no side issues like OCD, the only conclusion left is that one partner has no respect for the other and has a huge sense of entitlement instead. That's NOT a healthy relationship.

Maybe take a late night walk with his much cared for golf clubs and chuck them in the nearest fast flowing river? Then when he puts his fist through the wall shrug and tell him not to be so precious. Just a thought.

If he thinks the problem is communication then he should be happy to go to relate with you.....so that you can learn to communicate with each other.

OptimistS "In a healthy marriage with two decent people, compromise is a good thing."

I suggested collaboration and compromise. Compromise is a loose, loose situation. Sometimes it's the only fair way to go, but I would hate a relationship where it was the default method of resolving disagreements. Collaboration should be the first port of call. Otherwise where are the shared values and goals? Where is the mutual support?

I would agree that if he's abusive then compromise and collaboration aren't going to work. But I don't actually see an abusive partner in what the OP has written. I just see a really bad dynamic between them. Which doesn't mean collaboration and compromise are necessarily going to work either - they would both have to want to work together for that and it doesn't sound like either of them do.

I DO see an abusive partner. Decent men do not go around intimidating their partners by punching walls or making their partners get out of bed to turn out lights that they have been perfectly capable of turning off themselves for the past two-and-a-half years.

I see an abusive sexist man here, as well. And probably an alcoholic or at least someone who's heading for alcoholism.

I think this is a classic male/ female lack of connection.

You would like him to do something which you think is a small thing (so do I, for that matter ). He thinks you're telling him what to do, and he objects to that.

Not offering any solutions here, just a wee bit more insight, I hope.

This is only a classic male/female thing in that it's classic behaviour by a sexist man to keep on doing something that upsets a woman, belittling her for complaining, then getting aggressive just to remind her that he is the one who matters in the relationship and she mustn't get above herself.

Thanks all, just getting back to this after a time out for me with the paper and a glass of wine.

First off, SuchProspect, where alcohol abuse is concerned, compromise doesnt come into it. He had to change, otherwise he would have lost his job and his family. For years I tried to compromise with him over this, only to realise, thanks to al anon,that I was just enabling him all along.

MakeMine - Have tried to find a parallel for him to understand, for eg saying that in many other houses I know that people remove their shoes, or wear indoor shoes or whatever, his response being that he doesnt "give a shit" what other people do in their own homes, he does not remove his shoes and never will do...despite fact that i am not even asking him to do this, jsut trying to illustrate that I am not being particularly precious.

"Compromise is finding a solution to a disagreement that all parties can agree is fair. It does not mean finding the halfway point between one person's unreasonable behaviour and the other person's misery." Skidoodly that perfectly illustrates the point I try to make in relation to the alcohol abuse, it seems like SuchP is suggesting that him cutting down on alcohol is evidence of compromise on his part that should be reciprocated by me, by seemingly allowing myself to be treated like a second class citizen!

OptimistS - Yes, that is ALWAYS his default position when he feels backed in to a corner, always accuses me of using words to undermine and tie him up in knots. FFS he is a professional man with a good education who is on several committees and has considered entering politics, yet he accuses me of outsmarting him. It deeply upsets me not least because of the implication of bad faith on my part, which is just not true.

I dont know whether my dh is abusive or not, but I do know that he has some issues that he takes out on me, and it is sapping and draining to live with someone who is so intransigent, belligerent and yet so lacking in self esteem.

On a lighter note, to Eurostar, maybe I will get him a pair of moccasins for Christmas, he prob wouldnt see the funny side of it though!!!

Speedy - I wish and hope it was as simple as that, but I dont think the punching the wall thing is a normal male/female thing and is more like what Sparkling says, an aggressive act to assert his own dominance in the oinly way he knows how.

Esme, was your DH single for a long time before marrying you? I mean, for a decade or more? Sometimes this can intensify a man's desire to remain in control despite being partnered with an intelligent, educated 21st century woman who naturally expects to be treated as an equal.

WHAT?
I'm a pretty mucky slob but would never ever put my shod feet up on some piece of furniture, expensive or otherwise, especially if it was made of fabric.
What a filthy habit.

Please don't tell me he is one of those rude slobs who puts his dirty feet up on train seats as well?

Speedy - We were both 30 when we married, so dont know really, not too young, but not too old either, he was always a bit control freakish, but I can be a bit controlling too, but I have tried very hard to curb that in myself and certainly would not be aggressive about it.

Dittany - I went to Al anon only a couple of times and it really helped me to see that my own behaviour around his alcohol abuse had pnly enabled and perpetuated it. It was helpful as it helped me set boundaries and separate the behaviour from the person. It was the best thing I ever did. Apart from the odd ill judged late night, (as in friday night) he does not go out binge drinking any more and that has made a huge difference to us, not saying perfect, but a lot better, and improving all the time, but this last weekend has really set us back a bit, and now the arsiness over the furniture and the attitude he displayed to me over it really knocked me for six.

Estuardo - yes he is one of those mucky slobs who put their feet up on train seats too and I feckin hate that too!

esme, I would like to get this question out there again

^AnyFucker Mon 22-Nov-10 20:24:12
hitting walls is an act of aggression

he has done it 3-4 times this year

this is an aggressive man

I do wonder what he would do if you weren't so accomodating to his selfish behaviour^