Husband left after affair but want him back

[solost]

Hi, am new to mumsnet have never done anything like this before so here goes. In mid August I found out my husband of 17 years has been having an affair for 5 months with a 'work colleague'. He left me and our 3DC's within a couple of days. Since then he has visited us often, is attentive and caring towards me, and when he is working away - which is quite often, calls or texts frequently to talk to the dcs but inevitably ends up speaking for hours to me. He maintains he loves me as much as he did before the affair, that I did nothing wrong, that he was not disastisfied with any aspect of our marriage - I was the perfect wife? But the feelings he has for the OW are 'deeper'. Is there any hope for us? I feel that he is living a fantasy and that one day he will realise this and what he has thrown away - am I deluding myself? Please help, I miss him so much, have been with him since I was 15 and really don't want to give up on everything we had.

I think TheCrackFox is on to something here. So what's happening is that he is getting all his needs met by two women. If BB really is gnashing and wailing as much as he says she is, she's not being nearly as supportive in The Great Story of Him, so he's looking to you to fill that gap.

Solost I've made it quite clear throughout this thread that although I've called him a romantic idiot, I believe him to be a conniving, manipulative character. I know you don't want to believe that of him, but I agree with the others here.

He knows deep down that whatever you say, you derive enormous satisfaction from hearing how unhinged and awful the OW is. Likewise, she will love hearing tales of how clingy and demanding you are. This is like feeding time at the zoo, where he thows both of you a few fish to keep you going in your mutual hatred of eachother.

You must stop having these long chats with him. Next time he asks about texts or NYE, don't flirt with him, which is how I interpret your "might be!" response. Tell him it's none of his business. Why is that so hard to do, Solost?

It's really important that you persevere with closing him down about his disloyalty to BB. Keep it brief and say "I don't want to hear this."

Ultimately, while I have every empathy and understanding of why you want to hear what a rough time BB is having and God knows, it's kept us all entertained on this thread, but this man is an absolute shit for rubbishing the women he's involved with, isn't he? I'd have far more respect for him if he stood up for her. God knows what he told her about you when he was having the affair and it's pretty obvious from her behaviour towards you that she didn't develop this animosity and antagonism towards you all by herself. It's as clear as day to me, that he's been stirring her up too.

In a way, she never was your main enemy - he was and is.

As for the DCs, the time is nigh. I have a feeling that he'll have a massive dose of cold feet about telling them, but he doesn't have to live with the consequences of not telling them. Can I suggest that you confine your next conversation with him to what you will both say and then fix a date - just after school breaks up, would be ideal. They won't have to face going into school and telling their friends the next day and you can be with them 24 hours a day to give them cuddles, support and to answer their questions.

I have a feeling though that by the time he's forced to tell the children, he would do anything rather than reveal himself to them as an adulterer. So fix the date and watch this space - and this other relationship implode, if we are to believe anything he's saying about the histrionics at home.

Yep - what WWIFN (and LMHF) said!

To be honest the line I'd give him is, "This is nothing to do with me any more, we've split up, and both moved on, and it's not appropriate." But if he keeps going you can say you can't respect his disloyalty to his partner, that he made his bed and it's time he lay in it without complaining to you.

He's telling you what you want to hear, because it keeps you involved in the war with her, which he seems to rather enjoy. He'll be doing the same to her. Frankly you deserve and can do a damn sight better than him - you sound frigging fabulous. She sounds more his level. Gutter height, in fact.

In a way, she never was your main enemy - he was and is.

we have been saying this since the very beginning of this thread

don't ever lose sight of that

No the current OW really isn't your main enemy here. Remember that she's probably just the latest in a long line. I can't believe that a man like your H would have been faithful for 27 years. I'm sure he will have been taking full advantage of those business trips...

I think Crackfox is exactly on the money. He needs the emotional support from you to continue his relationship (such as it is) with BB. Much better to deny him this and see how he copes, or doesn't.

He has made one almighty cock up of his life lately, but it's not for you to rescue him or prop him up emotionally.

Solost - don't keep making it possible for him to 'Keep His Options Open'. Let him suffer the consequences of his actions. Look at you, you have had to suffer the consequences of his actions.

When my DH has left me in the past (no OW involved - totally different scenario, I know) but when he wasn't waging war with me, he turned back on the charm to keep his options open. It is easy, emotionally, when you have been with someone many years, to fall back into that role listening to their familiar voice; BUT how dare he use you to offload his difficuties to and, as others have said, keep his options open by telling you how awfully difficult it is for him regarding the OW (wow, she is such a handful apparently - he's hardly going to be stupid enough to say he's really enjoying having a new partner in bed etc., is he!! Maybe, she is a nightmare; well, if she is, then he will have to suffer the consequences of his decision to be with her; but whatever he/she is doing, the main thing is your dc don't get affected by all that crap. Take care.

Solost - be 'business-like' with him, it will help you emotionally too.

Great advice here Solost, do consider what everyone is saying.

He is using you and your loyalty. He could dump on you at any moment again and you could find that much of what he is saying is part of his increasing tangled web of lies.

Let him eat some of his own dirt - don't let him shovel it your way.

He's using you and it feels uncomfortable to read. Be strong and draw a line under his sessions with you acting as his confidante.

Maybe this is a musing that is totally unconnected to anything, but seeing as we appear to have some of the finest forensic relationship analysts there are right here, I thought I'd ask a question that occurred to me in the last few days.

Do abusive/manipulative men always KNOW they are abusing? Do these men KNOW they are being conniving? Could it be a primal/basic instinct thing, certainly to begin with?

We all react in different ways to certain things that happen/we cause whatever, but our reactions are due to our upbringing, our personality, our experiences.

My 'H' was read the riot act at the weekend, I told him a string of stuff that he did that means to me that he is a bad man to be with, not a good father and never likely to be. It stung naturally. But he went away and came back and said he had no recollection of doing these things, that he genuinely really didn't intend to be so mean, but was feeling jealous, that he loved me and wanted to protect me yadda yadda. I told him love doesn't do these things, love doesn't hurt. He was shocked. He even agreed to listen to what I had to say about how some of his behaviour is damaging and work to change it. We'll see, Actions not Words.

H is insecure. He doesn't actually think he is. But he is less secure than I am.

Solo's H is insecure, if he weren't he would not have fallen into this stupid relationship with the BB. So I ask even if they behave in ways that ARE manipulative, are they sitting there planning, OOh I'll do this to Solo, or that to LMHF...? I don't think they are. They are doing what feels right for them to do, that keeps them in their comfort zone.

Sure once some men that are being manipulative and abusive are aware of the fact, they won't stop, but I do wonder if there are some that have been raised to be no other way than demeaning of women (H culture is just abysmal when it comes to females) and that they can look at their behaviour with new eyes and adjust accordingly?

I believe he is keeping Solo sweet, checking up on her, bitching about the BB, because to be nice would in his mind hurt her, but it does also keep a conspiracy going, an intimacy that would not be there if he were singing BB praises and Solo told him to sling it and that was that.

He may be keeping her onside, but is it a conscious thing? I don't think so. He is soothing his guilt, keeping the back door open just in case. He is using her, he is getting something out of it, but it's subconscious, IMHO. Nevertheless, Solo has to shut down that emotional support.

Whether or not this BB relationship works out, the H needs to stand on his own two feet and not rely on Solo to subsidise his relationship.

If there IS a chance that this BB relationship can be brought to it's knees, the only way IS by Solo withdrawing and removing herself from its dynamic.

Solo HAS to stand firm, be business like and shut this 'BB, what you gonna do' thing he has going on.

"Don't want to hear it, of no concern to me, it's your choice to be involved in your DC life or not. FULL STOP"

Next time your husband starts talking to you about the OW, you might want to remind him (and yourself) that he's talking about the love of his life and the greatest love there ever was. That's why he claimed he left. You don't want or need to hear about any problems they might be having or to be the person your H comes crying/whinging to.

As someone suggested further up the thread, he's almost certainly complaining to the OW about you and painting you as the 'bad guy'. I agree with everyone else here, the OW is not your enemy; he is. He is the bad guy here but he's trying to get you and the OW focusing on each other so as to deflect attention away from himself and his inadequacies.

For what it's worth, I don't actually think the OW is anything like as bad as he's making out. What I'm imagining is a very naive and unhappy woman who has gotten herself into a crappy situation and probably doesn't want to have to face up to the fact that your H does not match up to the romantic hero he thinks he is (and she probably thought he was).

Of course, that doesn't mean that you have to care about her crappy situation, or even feel sorry for her. She got herself into this and should have been able to predict that it wasn't going to be the end of a cheesy romantic film (in which she's the heroine and your H is the hero).

It might help you to see your husband in the cold light of day though. He's torn your life and family apart on the premise of his unrealistic and selfish romantic nonsense and now he wants you to side with him against the OW. You need to displace him from the leading man role here and start seeing him as the villain (in the pantomime he's drawn you into).

AF: Thanks

THUMBPLUMPUDDINGWITCH: I think he is seeing the light but to be honest I am not really bothered to be honest. My opinion is, let him stew! I wouldn't have him back straight away even if he begged me to.

ANNIEGETYOURGUN: I see you point but I think the reason he is spending more time with the DC's is because I pointed out to him how many hours he had spent with them in total last week and he seemed genuinely ashamed of himself. I try not to get sucked in by his tales of BB, I am not sure why he does this I will ask him next time he brings this up. He did say last week, he wouldnt be telling me anything about his 'life' over there anymore, however he just doesnt seem to be able to stop himself. I did point ou to him the reason why I was so cold, I think he just doesnt want us 'not to be friends' weird I know. I think he can't really detach himself from me - not sure why.

AF: I know, I can sort of see where this is going. H said the other day he wished he had never met BB then none of this would have happened but I think he feels now it has he has to carry on with it?

THECRACKFOX: You are right, a while ago H told me he still loved me the same as he always had and admitted that whilst he feels that way he could never commit fully to his relationship with BB. But thats his problem isn't it?

BEGONYABAMPOT: I am not sure why he tells me about BB. He say he would stop but it seems he can't seem to stop himself - maybe thats all we have in common anymore. I am not sure what he tells her about me, I have asked him not to tell her anything and try not to disclose much personal stuff about whats happening now. He once told me she thinks I am a 'hard' person but I took that as a compliment! As far as DC's are concerned I am.

Great advice here. Sorry solo that you thought I was saying you were fighting for him. That's not what I meant. What I was trying to say is it's in H's interests to keep up the charade that you are fighting for him to BB as she will then feel insecure etc.

I think the post regarding whether such people know they are being malicious is that the the answer is it's not nearly as deep as you give them credit for above.

I think it's literally like spinning plates for them no harder and no less it comes instinctively to them as a way of maintaining their position.

The only difference is they are not naturally a caring person so genuinely don't care if what they want to happen impacts on others.

When you give it headspace and credit them with being a caring person that has fought with the rights and wrongs in any particular situation you've missed the point they just don't actually care.

What they say and do is to give them the upper hand and it comes instinctively i.e. if you wanted to manipulate a group of three year olds to have a cheese sandwich instead of a ham one you'd have no trouble. They make people react how they want them to. We all know really how to make people react in certain ways it's just a caring person wouldn't put another through the wringer!

The only way to deal with people like this is to see them for what it is they are- either very selfish, don't have much compassion, used to getting their own way and don't want to rock the boat.

The only way not to be played by them is to let them know you're on to them and you are no fool and will not tolerate it. They will either say "game up" but revert back occasionally to such behaviour and require putting back in their box - or the more nasty one would just move on a new unsuspecting victim.

LMHHHF: Thanks I think you could be onto something there. I will be more cold and detached on the phone. I also think you are all right about him getting some 'sanity' from over here.

WWIFN: Thanks for your insightful post. However, apparently BB was feeling sorry for me and completely guilty about what she had done at the beginning. He told me once that she hoped that one day we could be 'friends'!!!! WTF??? The change in her behaviour I feel comes from the fact that she now feels 'out of control' of the situation. Apparently she and H thought by now they would be picking up the DC's on Saturdays and taking them for 'a little day out' before dropping them back home. And I think it really irks her that this is not happening. That she cannot control me in the same way she controls H.

He doesn't really rubbish her either, he seems to stand up for her, regardless of what madness she comes out with. I think H genuinely sees her side, until he puts it to me - then he sees the 'madness' of it. For example, her demands re the trip to O2, H said 'well I can see where she's coming from, if her Ex was travelling with her I don't think I'd be very happy about it'.

Regarding the DC's, I think its a very good idea to tell them when school finishes so we can have time together afterwards etc.

Thank you x

PERFECTSTORM: Thanks.

LIZZABADGER: I don't think he has ever been unfaithful before, I really dont. But I do see where you are coming from.

SCAREDOFCOWS: I agree, will re-detach??

BELIEVEYOURTRUTH: Thank you, I think there is part of him who is keeping his options open. And I know I need to shut that down.

GONETOSOUTHPOLE: I agree, thank you.

LMHHHF: I agree completely. I am not sure why he does this but I don't believe there is any malice there, he told me he was gonna stop - he just doesnt seem able to do it. I think that for so long in his life, he told me everything, confided in me etc. that now he just can't seem to stop. He has a new job now and re: negotiations with this and what to do and whether to accept it or not, he came to discuss it with me - not her. I did ask him why this was and he said 'she wouldnt understand'? I do understand though that I must stop this, it had stopped until a few days ago. I also don't think he badmouths me to BB - don't ask my why I think this but I don't and maybe that is one of the reasons why she is so loopy?

DAMSELINDISGRACE: I will do that. He does'nt really rubbish her though, he just tells it how it is 'she cried herself to sleep because she feels so out of control with the situation, she thinks you are controlling her life etc.' I think sometimes he wants me to feel sorry for her??? I told him, so what, she knew what she was getting herself into didn't she? how do I control her life exactly? - by not letting her see the DC's apparently and by asking H to look after the kids whilst I try have a night off and sort a new life.

Am sure BB wasnt the enemy... until she started trying to elbow her way into my/DC's lives. What is it with these women? not happy with destroyng someones family, she has to force her way into the DC's lives to - she doesn't want to be on the 'sidelines' you see, she likes to be 'in control' you see, she thought by now she, H and our DC's would be having little weekend outings together and it really pisses her off that its not happening. She hates the fact that I ask H to look after DC's, she really doesnt see why he has to do this, there is always a reason he has to leave early etc. although H has stopped trying it on so much now - he accepts that Saturday is his day with the DCs and thats that.

I had a very interesting conversation with her, I mentioned upthread where she made it perfectly clear to me that she would be a BIG part of my kids lives and that my MIL/FIL are now nothing to to with me either? In summary, she was as mad as a box of frogs!

Hi Solost,

I'm still lurking, still admiring your courage and dignity!

WRT your last post I just wanted to say that while I totally agree with you that BB is most definately as mad as a box of frogs, it just goes to show how much your H is playing you off one another.

What I mean is when she is making her demands re meeting the children or your H not seeing them in the week, rather than manning up and your H saying to her "no I do not think they are ready / they are my DC's and I want to spend time with them" he is obviously saying "no, Solost does not want you to / Solost wants me to look after them" He is playing the part of poor me, piggy in the middle to these demanding women rather than taking full responsibility for the crap decisions he has made.

I'm glad you have decided to tell the DC's, just really sorry that he has brought you to this. Have you told H yet? What was his response?

keep strong, you're doing an amazing job

"BB was feeling sorry for me and completely guilty about what she had done at the beginning. He told me once that she hoped that one day we could be 'friends'!!!!"

She thought that because she thought she would be monopolising your DH 6 days a week. She thought she had 'beaten' you and was being a gracious winner...

Badmouthing: Do you think BB has any idea of what he says about YOU to HER?

You do realise he cheated on you, lied to you and kept his affair secret from you don't you? This guy is a skilled deceiver. Never forget that.

To her you could be being painted as hysterical, devastated and needy. DD has a thing they need me to be there. he won't be telling her that he himself WANTS to go there. It'll be obligation. "She hates the fact that I ask H to look after DC's, she really doesnt see why he has to do this" See? Told you!

Solo, I could be pissing in the wind here, but until we know for sure what that man is saying, he literally could be saying all sorts of shite to both of you, as a self preservation technique. So that he can have the least bumpy ride. By allowing him to discuss anything aside from the DC, you are affording him a support lifeline he literally has no ffing right to.

Cut off that life line.

My 'H' has a colombian cling on. 10 years now. She said once she wanted to be my friend, so that I would tolerate her I suppose. when H told her that he had a son with me, she said she would love my DS as he is half of H... H has not called her for YEARS. He only answers her calls by accident, when it is a hidden number, this I am sure of. In the past H would tell her stuff to preserve her feelings and I'm sure he would have said stuff about me to her. H will do and say all sorts of crap for an easy life.

My dad was the same. My mum told him to shove it. Very soon he saw that the stuff he was raving about in his new life, he'd long demanded to be removed from the life he had with my mother.

solost, you are quite naive if you think he does not speak of you in a negative way to BB

it might be subtle, but it is certainly very effective at winding her up

just as he has been with you, on your own admission

don't be naive, it won't serve you well

you have to think "worst case scenario" wrt to how he speaks of you, how he manipulates you both, and what plans they are cooking up between them to 1) get you under control 2) rip you off financially

if it doesn't happen, bonus ,but you have to be one step ahead

cosy chats, propping up your DH emotionally, not telling the children and hoping for the best wrt finances is not the way to do it

Solost with all due respect and it is meant repsectfully as you are doing great, you still have a longgggg way to "realise" the true him.

I bet my house he is slagging you off as the crazed nutter as much as he is with her to you.

They guy is a liar, cheat, home wrecking master of deceit here.

I am afraid you still think far to highly of him and can't see the shitty stuff he is clearly capable of.

As others have said you are providing him the emtional support he is lacking, you need to cut it off. No mre cosy chats only direct conversations about dc's if you want all this to end.

If life there was sooooo bad why is he making forward plans with her for after Chrsistmas, why is he still there? He can up and leave if he wants, he has done it to his family of 30 odd years after all......don't trust him and don't believe for a minute you are not getting that treatment reversed.

Af beat me too it slow typer with nails on

I agree with you, emmy (that is happening a lot these days...)

the only thing that was superfluous was "with all due respect"

solost has been bloody magnificent in taking all comments, and some of them quite harsh and penetrating, with all the best intentions they were meant with

a smaller (minded) person would not have been able to do that

her "D"H has been rubbished, her initial attitude to the fallout has been dissected and found wanting, her state of mind has been called into question at times

and she's still here...and so are we

a testament to her emotional maturity, and to MN

(which is being bashed on other threads as we speak, incidentally)

Agree with AF and emmy here.

I really do think you need to stop worrying about the OW, what she does, what she wants, anything. She is of no relevance to you at all. I agree that she probably is mad as a box of frogs, but only because she thinks she's won by getting your lying, cheating, manipulator of a husband. It is easier to get angry and hate her because she is nothing to you. The person you should be angry with is your husband and not her, however.

Instead of concentrating on how the OW is trying to muscle her way into your children's lives, just pretend she doesn't exist. You don't have to speak to her or have any contact with her at all. Nor should you have to worry about her trying to meet the kids or complaining about your husband seeing them. Your husband should not be telling you any of this crap as it is not relevant to you or to the children.

Your children will not be meeting their father's mistress any time soon (perhaps ever, depending on what happens) because that would be a dreadful thing for him to do to them. Their parents are no longer together and they need to be put first here and reassured that everything will still be ok. That's what matters. It would be completely irresponsible for their father to introduce them to another woman until long after the children have come to terms with this.

As a good father, your husband should know this and should have made it clear to his mistress that this is the case. It is his problem entirely and no concern of your or the children's whatsoever. He has absolutely no right to bring you into this or to mention it to you. I completely agree that he will be painting you as the villain to the OW. You need to remind him that these are his children and he has to put their needs first. Therefore, he should be telling her that her demands are ridiculous and she'll have to radically downgrade her ambitions not because his nasty, bitter wife says so but because he is a responsible father.

Tell him that you do not want to hear anything more about his OW, ever. Make it clear that you expect him to put his children's interests first and that you are willing to facilitate that, but you are no longer his confidante or support structure. He chose to give that up. You are being incredibly helpful and generous in allowing him to come to your house and spend time with them, since he has chosen living arrangements that make it completely unsuitable for him to have them himself. He needs to realise this and make longer term plans so as to be able to see more of his children (which do not include the OW).HE can continue to sleep with and even live with his mistress, but he has to put his responsibilities as a father first. He cannot have his cake and eat it.

Also agree that solo has been incredibly mature about all this on here. Her attitude has been very impressive.

FANTUS: Thanks for your comments. I am not sure whether H is playing us of against each other but seeing at it is the unanimous opinion of you wise ladies I will assume he is an take the appropriate action!

LMHHHF: I am going to ask him what he tells BB about me, but until I do am going to assume he tells her that Im as batty as she is! BB repeated those exact same words 'she loves the DC's because they are half of him?' but how can someone love someone they have never met?

AF: Message received! I can always rely on you not to 'sugar the pill'.

EMMYLOULOU: Thanks, think I needed a wake-up call!

DAMSELINDISGRACE: Thank you, its so easy to slip back into the 'confidant' role though, I really didn't realise that I had until you lot pointed it out to me.

NO! Don't ask him.

You don't care! WTF do you care what some BB is being told about you, the BB who wants to deny you your DH, your ILs and in time your DC? Remember the big 4bed where they can all live happy ever after??? You forgotten that already?

This non-essential contact, tittle tattle, he said, she said has got to stop.

Assume he trashes you to her in the same way he trashes her to you. It'll help you garner your disgust of him and detach. Which is what you have to do. Shut him down.

"I love them cos they are half yours"?
Utter bollocks, if she even half cared for the DC she would know why he is spending time with them. That comment is a 'oh well, nothing I can do, the buggers exist, but i'll not let them get in my way, I'll spout some shite so he thinks I care, then he'll think better of me'

Assume he is playing you. If you plan for the worst, hope for the best, in emotional terms and financial as our illustrious AF says, then you will be in a good position to weather this storm, whatever it throws at you.

He has after all pulled the wool over your eyes for a while, has betrayed you, your DC and even when discovered, hasn't got the balls to do the right thing and end the affair, he walks out on his family.

There are vermin with more moral fibre than him.