brothers wedding husband not invited

[speechagent]

My brother is having a civil partnership ceremony next week with his partner.
My husband is not invited but I and my 3 children are.
The reason for this is that 8 years age one Christmas my husband was very drunk. It was very late at night and he wanted a cigarrete. He knew my brother had some but brother would not let him have one. This threw him into a drunken rage and he spouted venom about 'dirty gays' etc. Very insulting language, I was very embarrassed and my H slept in the car. My H did give big apology by phone and we did all meet up a couple of days later for Sunday lunch in the pub. However things have been a little frosty since. We have seen my brother a few times since (once or twice a year- we live some distance apart) although his partner never comes.
Initially I was not surprised that H was not invited and I told my brother I would attend (I do want to show him my support). However as time has gone on and it is now very close it all feels wrong and I don't want to go. I feel that it will cause damage to my relationship with my H. He says I can go but I know he is upset that he is not invited. He feels he has put effort in over recent years to his relationship with my brother and of course he knows he is not homophobic. I think my brother is labelling him as a homophobe. Because of the rude thid he said I can see why but I also know that H is not a homophobe it is just that he can be very unpleasant when he is exstrenmely drunk and will say the most outrageous things that he does not mean.
Also I feel very uncomfortable because people at the reception will be asking me where H is, why he is not there, and I will not be able to lie, I will have to say he has not been invited, I'm sure this will make both myself and my brother feel uncomfortable. And what are my children meant to say when they are asked where their father is?
I feel I can not go now. I feel I will be doing some (how much I don't know) damage to my relationship with H if I go when he has been NOT INVITED, we are a family amd my relationship with him is more important to me than that with my brother and I don't want to damage it in any way. My relationship with my brother is not as strong but I don't want to upsethim. Do I just tell him (He has booked us a hotel room and will be able to get refund) but he may be upset when I tell him I can't go because H is not invited - this worries me because my dad and his brother fell out and have not spoken for 40 years) or do I phone at the very last minute with a reason I can't go e.g. illness.
HELP

I think it's totally reasonable for your brother not to want your DH at his wedding, and I say good on him for being so strong about his wishes.

I was talked into having a girl I didn't like at my wedding because she was going out with a friend of mine and it makes my blood boil to see her in my wedding photos. And she didn't do anything near as bad as your DH. I still wish I had had the guts your brother has and just said no she can't come to my friend.

You say your brother is sensitive but I think that's very dismissive of his feelings. If it took him until 35 to tell you he was gay then obviously he had a lot of fear and anxiety surrounding the announcement, and life for a lot of gay men is very tough. They have to come up against a lot of subtle and overt prejudice so naturally someone who calls a man a "dirty gay" directly to his face will never really win that man's trust back again. Imagine your brother's partner had picked out the thing you were most insecure about and screamed it in your face. Would you want him at your big day?

Your loyalty in this situation is to your brother, not your husband. It'll make no difference to your husband in the long run if he doesn't attend the wedding whereas (despite the fact you're not close) it will make a huge difference to your brother if his sister isn't there. Your DH understands what the problem is so I don't see anything he could object to if you go on your own. And if people ask where he is just say he's not well - surely they know he has cancer??

whoodoo - why should the OP's brother put her feelings above his? She's lucky he still speaks to her - I'm not sure I'd still talk to a sibling whose partner had spoken to me like that.

ladyb - it's not her fault her DH had a drunken outburst - to suggest her bro should cut her off too is a tad extreme in my view.

Maybe her bro could compromise his feelings out of love for his sister? I know I would. After all he has far more important, positive tihngs to celebrate on the day like his partner. I think if i were her bro I would try to see the bigger picture and keep the peace.

For what it's worth, my husband's B BIL is a total violent, pompous drunken twat but we were prepared to have him at our wedding as he comes as part of the package. Ironically our wedding was the catalyst for their divorce - she was too embarrassed to bring him and realised that on this basis she should probably leave him.

There's a difference between being a twat and hurling homophobic abuse at someone who's gay. If I were gay, I think relations with my sister would be extremely strained if her partner had said something like this to me.

It's like racist people - I wouldn't want to be in the same room as them, a lot of people think it's vaguely distasteful but don't really comprehend how hateful the way they think is.

It was a drunk abusive outburst. My family gets drunk sometimes, but never abusive.
I wouldn't want this bloke at my wedding and can understand the brother excluding him.
Accepting an apology would be OK if this was an accident, but it was a personal insult over something trivial.
I hope he's not always that horrid when drunk.
Your brother's feeling on his wedding day are much more important than yours. You should be putting your brother first. If your husband is a reasonable bloke he'd understand why.

I think the original apology (over the phone) wasn't enough.

Given your husband is facing his own mortality, it would be nice to think he could go to see your brother and his partner and talk to them quietly, saying how sorry he is for all the problems his stupid, drunken outburst caused and that he knows they must hate him, but that he hopes they will always be there for you. I don't mean he should ask to go to the wedding - he should tell them that of course he understands they don't want him there, but that he hopes they have a happy and healthy life together.

Eight years is a long time for bad feelings to last. He needs to face them and talk to them about it.

I'm sorry but I don't think being drunk is an excuse. All alchohol does is let people become less inhibited. Those thoughts were in his head anyway. The alchohol just made him feel it was okay to say it when normally he'd have held back.

Despite this, I don't think you should go. You have chosen to be with your OH knowing how he feels about homosexuals and your brother, and as such you've already chosen.

Explain to your brother that you think it would be best if you didn't attend but offer to go for a meal with him instead and buy him something nice.

It isn't fair to expect him to invite your OH after what he's said not to mention what he may say if he gets drunk again or feels slighted by any of the guests.

I disagree. Go, I think you will really regret it if you don't. Just go to the ceremony if nothing else, I think you need to show your support for your brother. By turning the invite down, it implies disapproval.

I do think your DH should stay right out of it, it sounds as though there is no love lost between him and your brother, and it might just be better for them to avoid crossing paths.

Phew, Tokyo! I'm another in vino veritas believer. Never used to be, but experience changed my mind. Having said that, 8 years is a long time and OP's husband's got particular reason to have rethought some of his priorities, if he's inclined to. It would be nice to think he'd do what twolengths suggested above.

Mind you, speechagent seems to have vacated her thread! Could you post back, OP?

speechagent, your DB is the one who has the most to lose in this situation. You must understand that, if he invited your DH to his wedding, and your DH happened to repeat his previous performance, he could offend not only your DB and his partner (future husband), but most guests at that wedding. It could easily spoil what should be the happiest day of his life. A wedding is about the people getting married. Your DB has already made concessions by still inviting you and your DC. If I was in your situation there is no way my Dh would be coming, but certainly I would be there, with my DC, supporting my DB. He has the right to enjoy his wedding without being constantly worried about how much your DH is drinking, and feeling anxious every time he speaks.

• life's too short for family feuds

• DB must be prevailed upon to invite DH

• Ask your DB: "after you are married, are there any circs where you would attend an event to which your partner wasn't invited?, And if your partner had a family wedding to which you weren't invited, how would you feel if he went?"

• DB is having a partnership ceremony. the whole point of these is to recognise the commitment two people make to each other. it's not appropriate to invite a woman and not her husband, it misses the point entirely.

• getting an invite may involve another apology, if so, DH has to suck it up)

• if at the end of the day DB won't invite DH, then you simply can't go to the ceremony.

siding with family against spouse is a recipe for disaster...

Why on earth should the brother be uncomfortable on his special day, stubbornhubby? And why should the OP NOT go, if DB doesn't conform to her demands? It's completely appropriate to want his beloved sister by his side, but not to want to risk another alcohol-fuelled outburst, which could offend most of the people attending.

She's not taking sides, she can love and support them both.

untill now she didn't need to take side - but whole point here is that this invitation is FORCING her to do so. That's why her DB is wrong.

many people end up inviting to their wedding family members that they they really don't want to. You grit your teeth and invite them, they promise to behave, you have a mutual agreement to shake hands in the line up, smile, and then ignore each other for rest of day.

that's how it works.

the alternative is you force people to take sides in a family feud.

it won't be the first anti-gay outburst the DB has heard. He's being childish IMO

I don't blame your brother for not giving second chances. Substitute the word gay for 'black'. Why forgive?

When my best friend was burying his bf of 28 years, three years ago, his own brother insulted them both at the funeral, drunk. He said I don't know you are crying, he was a camp poof.

Best friend is dead now too, at 46, he died of a broken heart.

If you love your brother, go to his wedding. This is not about you or your husband. You will only be punishing your brother for not inviting your dh if you refuse to go.

Dont live with regret, your dh is doing enough of that for both of you.

he doesn't have to forgive, he just has to invite him.

if it was about being black, or catholic, or fat .... same thing.

life's too short for family feuds.

What your dh said was deeply offensive and I don't blame your brother for not inviting him, sorry. I think you should still go - your dh is an adult and should be able to bear the consequences of his actions.

Stubbornhubby - I totally agree. It is awful that he has excluded the op's dh from the ceremony, it goes against the whole meaning of the ceremony.

This was 8 years ago FGS. I have said some stupid things when I was drunk that I regretted (not homophobic or racist but still insulting) and bitterly regretted it the next day. I apologised and never repeateed the incident and that was that, the injured party didnt sulk about it for nearly a decade!

My sister got married just in the middle of my parents very acrimonious and stressful separation, my mum and dad both attended, as did my father's mistress whom he had been sleeping with and who my father left his family to be with, they ALL attended, and you know what, there wasnt a bad word between any of them, even though it was very hard for my mum, she just held her head high and was civil, as were they all, for the sake of my sister and her husband, and the day went well.

The db should grow up, forgive and forget, or if not, the op should not go, and send out the message that he first loyalty is to her family and her dh, the db is about to get married himself, he should understand why his ds would put her dh first.

8 years ago, apologies, and they have met and been civil at times over the years since, but yet he is excluding the dh from this one occasion....immature and sulky behaviour.

I don't agree Nikita - there are arguments and there are some things that sorry just doesn't cover. You cannot erase all of the things you do just by saying sorry and you have to accept the consequences of your actions.

It is the OP's brother's day. It's a civil partnership and therefore entirely reasonable for him to want the guests to be, exclusively people who are supportive and who don't have homophobic prejudices bubbling below the surface.

Anyone who says that is homophobic - whether drunk or not.

I don't believe that you should support a spouse over a sibling no matter what. The OPs spouse is clearly in the wrong. He has put her in this awful position, not her brother. He probably is very sorry he behaved that way but will just have to accept that some things, even if forgiven, can't be forgotten.

I would not want someone at my wedding who had been so vile to me and who was likely to be a liability when he's had a few drinks.

I think if he makes a personal apology to his BIL, gives his genuine good wishes to the couple and gives up alcohol, then he may go some way to regaining forgiveness.

I don't believe you can go to wedding to which your spouse is not invited.

It kind of shows that the people doing the invites don't really understand what a being married is.

or that their marriage is worth more than yours.

A key issue here is that db would be worried that there might be a repeat performance, and it would be completely unfair to have this hanging over his head. It would completely ruin my day.

Nikita - I'm astounded at the selfishness of your father and his mistress at bringing such tension to your sister's wedding - an event supposed to be about creating family, and these two people had just ripped one apart. Horrible for your sister, unbelievably insensitive and unkind to your mother, and an elephant in the room for all the guests to tiptoe around. Am completely gobsmacked.

Kiwikat - I actually agree with you that it was awfully insensitive of my father and very very tough on my mother. But the point is that she had to put her own hurt aside and get on with it, if she had kicked up about the mistress being invited, then my father would not have attended his own daughters wedding (yes he really was that selfish) and my sister would have been devastated, so, it was to keep the peace so that my sister could have everyone there that she wanted, namely her mum, dad and relatives and friends.

I didnt like it then, and i still dont like it now, but if I was my mother in that situation now, I would probably do the same thing for my daughter.

I think that the brother, if he really wants his sister to be there, should let her attend with her own dh, because as Stubbornhubby says, by not allowing that, he is effectively ignoring the fact that they are married and he is certainly showing a lot of disrespect towards his sisters marriage.

This was one rant, a once off, and as far as we know from the OP the dh has never repeated the incident. Why is he, and also her, his own sister, still being punished for this 8 years down the line? If someone said something stupid and insulting to me 8 years ago, I would like to think that I was big enough to put it aside and invite that person along to my wedding if they were married to my sister or brother.

I am sorry Nikita, but I actually disagree with you.

Did your sister really want dad and his mistress with the accompanying hurt for your mother more than he wanted the day without his dad and mother not humiliated? I am sorry, but I dont see anything noble in that. Just two selfish people (your sister and your father) and your poor humiliated mother.

I can understand why your brother hasn?t invited your DH, and as it?s his wedding, he?s perfectly entitled to do that.

However, I don?t personally attend events to which DH hasn?t been invited as I firmly believe that that relationship takes precedence over any other ? the OP?s brother is obliging her to make a choice, and I?m perfectly clear as to what my choice would be in those circumstances.

How would your brother react if you told him you and the DCs didn?t feel able to come?