Calling all prostitutes and former prostitutes on MN, as there seem to be a few around right now...

[Aitch]

I'm curious to know how it makes you feel to see threads on here from wives and girlfriends etc when they discover that their husbands etc have been visiting prostitutes? even if you are happy in your own jobs (and i hope to god you are somehow, because the alternative is intolerable), how does it feel to be confronted with the downside of your work on these pages?

(i think it goes without saying that the men are culpable in this scenario, but am looking for some insight into how your work squares with sisterhood etc).

the vast majority of prostitutes aren't in it because they like it though, surely you can see that

it's wasier to have a wholesome and praiseworthy moral standpoint when you have a white-collar job and a fat bank account

you will have to take that up with OFFS and mandamumu and blackbess, greensleeves. it is they who are saying that street walkers and coerced women are 'a tiny minority' on the other thread. so if i accept that, and i am not saying i do, then that is why i ask the question as to professional ethics, given that it isn't the only job available.

Well, if we are talking about women who have chosen to be sex workers because they enjoy it, then I think that their ethical approach to sex can be taken as read to a certain extent

I don't really see what GOOD is done by asking them about sisterhood and the sanctity of marriage

I also think it is infantilising to regard men as led by their dicks and women as the active agents in causing marital infidelity by making sex available

I suppose I don't really understand what you are trying to achieve here

for the third or fourth time on this thread...
"(i think it goes without saying that the men are culpable in this scenario, but am looking for some insight into how your work squares with sisterhood etc)."

the people who i wanted to speak to, i spoke to. they knew what i was asking and they answered, in fact it was them who suggested i start the thread.

not sure why anyone else is speaking for them, tbh. it must be very annoying.

I doubt it's particularly annoying. It's rather in the nature of public forums that people contribute their views and speculations.

Can you elaborate on "sisterhood"? I don't personally support or protect or necessarily feel obliged to somebody purely on the basis of their being female. Should I?

that's up to you, greensleeves.

If men don't go to prostitutes for sex (and are by extension being led by their dicks) then why are they going? Cup of tea and a hug?

If however punters are prosecuted for procuring sex for money then they might think again.

well yes, of course it is

but I was asking you to enlarge a bit on YOUR view of "sisterhood", as mentioned in your OP

I'm interested

yes, and if you see her answer below she says she doesn't really ahve married clients any more, the way it's worked out.

sorry just saw your post, greensleeves. no, i don't think i will expand on that, thanks. i think the people who wanted to understood perfectly well what i mean.

Greensleeves: Manda declared herself to be a feminist and I wondered, as I assume Aitch did, what she meant by that. Manda also suggested this thread. It's not meant to be a dig at prostitutes at all, just an effort to understand really. (apologies to Aitch if I am misrepresenting you)

you are not, thanks.

somewhat rude Aitch

thank you jenny60

Aitch after the hard time you gave me on that other thread about being in a bad mood and taking it out on the wrong people, I can't help feeling there is something pot/kettle/black about your new thread?

Aitch

I've name changed for this and have been trying to decide whether to post, but I am within your target audience and this is something I have thought about myself.

I was briefly an escort (mostly visiting men in their own homes) when I was in my early 20s. Not something I'm deeply ashamed of but certainly not my finest hour. My circumstances at the time were pretty dire.

I also found that the vast majority of bookings were from single or widowed men and can think of only a couple of occasions where the man was married.

Although I absolutely didn't (and still don't) see whether or not they chose to have sex outside their marriage as my business, I felt a contempt towards the married men that I certainly didn't feel towards those that were not married.

This was a long time ago for me and tbh i don't tend to think of it when I read threads on mumsnet, particularly as my experience with married men was so limited.

I'm not that big on 'sisterhood' as a concept (not anti, just don't tend to think in genders that much), but I felt and feel genuine disgust towards these men.

I do still consider having a proper 'affair' to be worse though

no ruder than you have been to me, greensleeves, i don't imagine the lifestyle journalist dig was an accident. until the next time...

don't really know what you are talking about, tbh, funny, i am in a perfectly fine mood, honestly (whereas you were trolling the other day with your 'would smug bfers please shut up etc' thread, and have done it before.) besides, i didn't say you were in a bad mood, i think my overwhelming message was that i sympathised with your evident anger concerning having failed to bf and that it would, if my experience was anything to go by, pass in time. i really hope it does for you soon.

what's kind of interesting here i think is that there seems to be an assumption that i am disrespectful towards prostitutes and former prostitutes in asking this question. i'm only glad that the women who i was asking seem not to have taken this attitude, because it is not the case.

thanks so much for answering janethecat, i suppose i would reckon that would be the case, really. i think it would be for me, too, tbh. seems to me perfectly reasonable not to have a problem with selling sex (actually not to me personally but that is neither here nor there) but nevertheless to retain the thorough dislike of infidelity (for which you bear no responsibility but are nevertheless contributing to). on tv etc it's either a bdj represented or a victim, there isn't much thinking or feeling credited to sex workers, which really just cannot be true. and that's why i was asking specifically with reference to threads on MN where women find out that their dhs are seeing prostitutes, i wondered if there was a chime of recognition, and it seems there is, recognition if not actual responsibility.

thanks, it's all very interesting, cheers.

aitch I was absolutely not trolling. Have been a Mnetter for 6 years. Twas just a subject which I am passionate about. So I really think you do know what I 'am on about'. Your sympathy did not really come across, but thanks anyway

There have been sex workers for ever, ever since women would have to offer sex to fill their temples coffers thousands of years ago, and there will always be sex workers.

They are providing a service and we would be naive to ever think that this industry will ever go away.

The issue is definitely with the men, not the sex workers, I should imagine that it would be a rare case of a 'Pretty Woman' set-up. Most sex workers view their job, the way that women who work in an office do...it pays the bills..no more, no less.

If women find that their partners are using a sex worker, then this is an issue that should be addressed with the men not the sex workers.

Men(and women)gamble as well..and drink, would we be looking to the bookies and landlords to be culpable in the problems that this would cause in a relationship?

'infidelity (for which you bear no responsibility but are nevertheless contributing to)...'

Aitch -- prostitutes contribute to infidelity? Yes, because they live and breathe. It is my personal belief, and also my observation, that if a man is so inclined, all you need is the right plumbing (or in fact any plumbing in the case of my exH) to become an enabler to straying. You might as well advocate the extermination of all other women besides yourself if you want to keep some men honest, and for some, other men will do just fine for the purposes of infidelity too, so why stop at women?

Now I think this 'in sickness and health/just suck it up and stop whining' mindset is actually pretty toxic. While a minority of people can find some sort of gratification in wallowing in their martyrdom, and many people can cope OK with the role of full-time carer for a dependent person who may behave in pretty charmless ways (which is of course understandable) if there's an end in sight, expecting people to simply endure, indefinitely, a joyless life of sacrifice and berating them for 'selfishness' if they try to seek any kind of pleasure, is thoroughly unfair.
And, as I have said before, if one partner in a couple-relationship says that there will be no more sex, that s/he doesn;t want to have sex ever again and will not compromise, then that person absolutley loses the right to expect the other partner to remain monogamous.
While it might be said that the partner with the active libido should end such a relationship rather than seek sex elsewhere, surely there is a similar responsibility for the partner who has declared that there will be no more sex, to end the relationship and let the other person go? If someone wants to refuse a partner sex but insist on the partner remaining in the relationship, then what on earth makes them think they have a right to complain if the partner seeks or has sex outside the relationship?

I am drawn between the notions offered by the 'I am in control, can choose whom I have sex with' posters, AND, the reality of the lives of sex workers who I have come across in my professional life. Particularly this has been in the area of drug dependency.

There are more sex workers, or ex-sex workers, on these boards now more than ever, or atleast more apparent. Which is quite a surprise, to me, and others. I think that Aitch's question is valid. BUT I also accept Greenies notion that subtle questions about ethics are not a main concern for most sex workers. Activity is about alleviating poverty as it always has been. It is the oldest profession because societies have always had poverty, albeit relative.

The 'being confronted with the downside' of your job part is erroneous - it's a job. Sex workers should be able to post here sans any special consideration of the motives of their customers. It is discriminatory, and a bit tasteless to imply they have a duty to reflect, or feel guilty, about their tasks.

having said all of that, I don't want sex workers life to be legitimised at all. Tricky issue but to do so says that it is 'acceptable ' in our day and age to have precious esteem to be bought and sold.

for the last time, hopefully...

i had been speaking to these SPECIFIC women. i asked them, in light of their empowered feminist etc claims on an other thread, if they read threads on MN about men visiting prostitutes and how it made them feel to see the devastation that was wreaked (by men) and a couple of the women commented that it was a good question and said i should ask it on another thread so as to have a discussion there.

so that is all that happened. no need to read things into what i was saying, no need to take into account street workers because we were not talking about them (although i am more familiar with street workers, thanks, and actually i know they do consider the other women in the situation despite being in, as greeny had it, a shit job. it's rather patronising imo to assume that they wouldn't).

fine that this is becoming a completely different thing, this is MN after all , but i do need to be clear that this stemmed from a specific discussion and has been answered, in a most interesting and contemplative fashion, by the women on MN who are in a position to answer. if only they'd answered on the original thread...