Calling all prostitutes and former prostitutes on MN, as there seem to be a few around right now...

[Aitch]

I'm curious to know how it makes you feel to see threads on here from wives and girlfriends etc when they discover that their husbands etc have been visiting prostitutes? even if you are happy in your own jobs (and i hope to god you are somehow, because the alternative is intolerable), how does it feel to be confronted with the downside of your work on these pages?

(i think it goes without saying that the men are culpable in this scenario, but am looking for some insight into how your work squares with sisterhood etc).

are you a lifestyle journalist? I quite genuinely haven't seen your CV and don't know who you are

paranoid, a bit?

Please point out where I was rude to you.

lol. you are ALWAYS rude to me, and you ALWAYS deny it. keep on keeping on, greensleeves.

SGB
A partner has every right to complain if they were unaware of the liaison. Long term illnesses are difficult but usually a couple will find some alternative in their sex life and run with it, usually for the better.

However, a recent study done in Canada (google cancer and divorce) showed that men were 5 times more likely to leave post cancer (in this study brain cancer) or long term illness specifically MS, and women were likely to stay.

The study throws up all sorts of questions. Are men not hot wired for caring? I don't agree. One interesting conclusion was that there aren't enough support systems in place for the couple. Comparisons were made with couples were the wife had breast cancer and the figures for desertion post diagnosis and treatment were much lower. There is a wealth of support systems in place for this type of cancer.

What you are suggesting is that sex is a right. It is not. By adopting this careless attitude men (and in the main it's men) are doing themselves and their gender a disservice. Those women they seek for their assignations are complicit in upholding these rights.

Your scenario only works if there is honesty and openness between the couple. However the balance of power is loaded in favour of the partner who is not ill so the only conclusion to be reached in the scenario you outline is that there is coercion and blackmail involved, i.e. if you don't let me have sex with someone else I will leave. No basis for a loving relationship.

you don't think you might have a bit of a problem with me, rather than the other way round?

when do I "always" deny it

bizarre

ach, give it a rest, greensleeves. your behaviour towards me has been noted by others so no, it's not just me... but let's leave this for now, eh? i didn't want to expand on 'sisterhood' for you, it's not the worst slight in the world. everyone else seems to have understood what i meant, whether or not they disagreed with the point of discussion.

it seems that men's 'right' to have sex is at the heart of it all, tbh celticfairy. that was one of the points brought up on the other thread, that men should be criminalised for buying sex (but that women shouldn't be criminalised for selling it, much like, say... a fourteen year old isn't guilty but a man who has sex with her isn't... although as i recall there was a better example, my one isn't great).

I married man has the moral responsibility not to visit a prostitute.

BUt a woman who calls herself a feminist has no business having sex with a married man, whether she is a prostitute or not

But celtic, whatever your views on the subject, married men can and will continue to use prostitutes and will continue to have affairs. I cannot envisage a day when that will ever not be the case, unless human nature was to change fundamentally.

Sex is an incredibly powerful human drive - one of the most powerful on earth. It can often be harnessed and controlled within a marriage but I think a lot of people (especially men) are not by nature lifelong monogamists.

If people found lifelong monogamy easy, then there would not be a 50% divorce rate, a sex industry or any exta-marital affairs or infidelity.

You might as well expect pigs to fly. As I see it, sex is hard currency whether in a marriage, out of a marriage or anywhere else.

what do you mean "noted by others"? Where?

You can't just post that and tell me to "give it a rest", who do you think you are?

Mathanxiety: "You might as well advocate the extermination of all other women besides yourself if you want to keep some men honest, and for some, other men will do just fine for the purposes of infidelity too, so why stop at women?" Indeed! :)

tadpoles, of course indeed, if that was what my post was about. i'm not interested in the question of keeping men faithful, i was interested in finding out if empowered women prostitutes felt any empathy for the 'other women' in the scenario, and judging by their answers, they do. i can't really see how i can be any clearer about the blame thing, tbh, i've reposted what i wrote in my OP about men's culpability about five times now.

@ Tadpoles:

Show me the studies with the conclusion that sex is one of the most powerful human drives. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that...

In the meantime have a look at Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs.

Sex, comes third. But it's not sex as in the act itself, rather the emotional bonds and ties that come with it.

Sex with a prostitute is mechanical. It's simply a release. There are no emotional exchanges. You might as well have a wank.

Self esteem, confidence, lack of prejudice, problem solving, spontaneity, creativity and morality all trumph the need for sex, according to Maslow. And I would agree.

Sorry: Hierarchy. tsk..

It doesn;t surprise me that more men leave a very sick partner than women do. Because women have it drummed into them all the time that they exist for the benefit of others in a way men don't.
ANd I don;t think someone who leaves a sick or sexless partner is necessarily an arsehole. Being sick doesn't make you a perfect person - sick or disabled people can be hellish to live with (understandably, they are angry with the world and being in pain doesn;t sweeten the temper) but if the relationship was already in trouble or not particularly strong, the idea of spending the rest of your life trapped with someone you no longer much like is pretty grim.

And, while having sex isn't a right, wanting it and seeking it is. If one partner in a marriage withdraws from sex completely, that is breaking the terms of the marriage contract. It doesn;t mean the marriage has to end, it means you discuss it rather than just saying to the partner 'I don;t want sex with you but you have to stay with me because htere's more to life than sex you disgusting beast, get some self control.' Just because sex is unimportant to you (generic 'you') doesn't mean that it's unimportant to your partner and it certainly doesn;t mean that you are a better person than your partner and can criticize him/her for having a libido.
And before everyone goes into yet another whine-fest about how awful it is that men claim to 'need' sex and they are just being selfish, have a rummage around Relationships for all the threads and posts from women whos partners won't have sex with them.

@Riven: Thank you :)

@SGB interesting reply and I'm enjoying this discussion. However I need to go to work now. Will post back my response to you later.

Antalya1 wrote - "They are providing a service and we would be naive to ever think that this industry will ever go away."

That could be a quote about 19th century slave traders.

But celtic, why don't those men who visit prostitutes have a wank instead then? It would be a lot cheaper and they wouldn't pick up any STDs or have any embarrassment to deal with either?

Sorry but I think you will find it quite difficult to argue from a standpoint that sex is not a powerful human drive - as you say the third according to Maslow. Of course it is bound up with emotions, just like every other human drive. That is the whole point of this surely?

Aich, I think I understand the thinking behind your original question. It would be interesting to ask a different question which would be: "do you think that you are providing a useful service for married men who are frustrated with their lack of sex life at home?"

The analogy with the slave trade is interesting. However slaves did not have freedom. Whereas there must be quite a few people working in the sex trade who are free to do other jobs, but chose not to because the pay/hours etc suit them. Also, don't forget we have a welfare state so it is at least technically possible not to work at all.

I knew a woman who worked as a "high class call girl" once. She was stunning and quite intelligent and could have done loads of other things but she made more money doing that.

you should start a thread, tadpoles... if this one is anything to go by it will go really well.

Riven- Otherkin (people who believe they are elves or dragons or vampires accidently born in human form. So -called normal humans are reffered to as 'mundanes'. It makes them feel special in some way)

That's fascinating. I'm not sure whether I'm disturbed or impressed. I really must find out more about this.

You should only ever get married on the understanding that you have potentially signed up for a sexless life if illness or injury prevents your partner from having sex ( which is highly unlikely, normally where there's a will, there's a way - there aren't that many conditions which prevent you having any kind of sex at all).

Only 10% of (Brititsh) men use prostitutes - according to statitstics, less than half that amount are married/in LTRs - that's a tiny proportion of men who think they are entitled to sex with another person.

I imagine the amount of wives who say "off you pop to the brothel for your weekly de-spunking dear" is even less - I can only think of aristocratic wives actually doing that ( marriage of convenience etc.).

"Sex with a prostitute is mechanical. It's simply a release. There are no emotional exchanges. You might as well have a wank."

It's called a GFE (girlfriend experience), lots of men (particularly over 40s) seek out the service precisely because it is not mechanical. We can go for a meal or just have a glass of wine together, chat about things, find out what we have in common and then progress to the bedroom.

Mostly it is single men or widowers, but the married men who look for that usually don't get it at home.
They're complaint isn't usually that they're not getting their oats, but that they miss the hugs.

I once had a client burst into tears when I hugged him. I thought maybe I shouldn't have, so I started to move. He begged me not to stop because he hadn't been hugged for a long time. I asked him how long? He thought about it for a few moments and then told me that it was at least 5 years.

Not all men are testosterone driven sex beasts.

I have a very low sex drive at the moment, DH's is very high. I wouldn't be bothered much if he wanted to visit a prostitute, so long as he was safe, honest about it and we could afford it.

But like I say, many of my friends worked in this industry, so I know what they think of the men and how unlikely it is that they will start a relationship with them and how also how clinically they think about it. To them it's work. End of.

It's not something DH has ever brought up and I don't think he would feel comfortable with the idea, but it wouldn't bother me if he did.