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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this a normal sex life???

807 replies

whatisnormality · 17/09/2010 21:37

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

  • Always initiated by me
  • 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
  • Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
  • Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

OP posts:
MollysChambers · 18/09/2010 09:44

Good post Midnight.

OP - I know you are filled with doubt at the moment. That is completely normal. What is unusual however is too have a MN post where EVERY poster is in complete agreement! One has signed up for the sole purpose of commenting on this thread because HE is so horrified by your situation. Please, please take confidence from that that you are in the right and he is no good for you. Counselling and reading some of the books mentioned by others will help.

QS · 18/09/2010 09:51

I really feel for you.
It is hard to suddenly start reevaluating your relationship and realize that it is not what you thought it was, and not what you want it to be, and the likely hood of it changing is minimal.

I am so sad for you. You sound like a beautiful woman in her bloom, her prime, at just 33 years old, and all I can think about is wilted flowers, the colour grey when I think about your marriage.

Your marriage IS your life. THIS is your life. What you make of it, the way you are living it now. There is only one person who can change it, and that is you. Nobody can change it for you, but yourself.

Please think about the happyness of a normal relationship, where man and woman love eachother, cuddle and comfort, massage a tired neck, or rub tired feet for eachother.

Think if you were to receive as much warmth and love as your husband does. It is normal to please your partner, the only thing that isnt normal in your sexlife, is that it is not reciprocated, and instead you have selfish demands for more and better. This is not normal. And that is down to him, not you. You cant change him.
But you can change your life.

teameric · 18/09/2010 10:08

whatis I really really hope you find the strengh to leave this man, it won't be easy but you NEED to do it.

changeforthebetter · 18/09/2010 10:09

This sounds rather like my marriage. I am going through a divorce now and it is horrible and I have been criticised by family and (so-called) friends for going through with the divorce. None of these people have a clue what the sexual details are because I don't like to broadcast my private life and I don't feel the need to justify my actions. One close friend knows the whole sordid lot and other (good) friends are supportive because they love me and take me at my word when I say I was very unhappy. I feel really low today but there is potential for happiness in the future. I don't mean just meeting another man, but potential to be free of the misery of that relationship.

Like you I was sexually inexperienced and he blamed me for that. Of course, that is crap. People aren't born with sexual know-how. Even the most fumbling beginner will get better with practice and with someone who loves and respects you.

I actually envy you. I am older and we had two kids (probably two of a total of about ten "normal" sex episodes in ten years). I love my children and don't regret them for a minute but it means I am tied to him in the sense that I want the DCs to have contact with him so we can never leave where we live. I am struggling to balance work and looking after really small children, have a badly paid job and no savings (used them up clearing his debts Confused) and paying for groceries because he wouldn't pay for family food.

You are younger, have no ties and have financial independence. For the love of all that is holy - please GO!

piratecat · 18/09/2010 10:13

when you said 'i don't think i wil be able to cope without him'

got me thinking.

my ex dh who i loved deeply and cared for very much left me. He fell out of love with me, he wasnever abusive, unkind or anything like what your dh is like. I thought the same. How will i ever cope without him.

BUT I HAVE.

no i don't leave him, he left me, so its going to be a huge huge scary chang einyour life. BUT you so will cope p.

PLease don't think so little of yourself that you endure this for the rest of your life. I was terrified wehn my ex left, I forgot what life was like without him, life wasmeant to be with him.

We had a 2 yr old.

You havent got children, and you can be free. Your whole thread has made me very teary for you, please leave him and get a life you deserve.
x

walkingonsunshine · 18/09/2010 10:15

I have just come back to your thread whatis after going to bed early last night. The rest of what you've written makes me feel so sad for you. You must be devastated today.

Are you ok? Baby steps are needed as others have said. Can you visit your brother today or friend? I imagine you need a big hug

Northernlurker · 18/09/2010 10:19

Oh dear - this thread is terribly sad. Op - you've had lots of good advice and I can't add to that. Just want to say - if a gang of strangers can see you are worth so much more than this abuse - well I hope you can start to see it soon as well. You deserve children and a happy sex life but you won't get either here.

Anniegetyourgun · 18/09/2010 11:04

Whenever you start to doubt things, he tells you how silly you are... he tells you this excuse for a sex life is normal and that your expectations are unrealistic... he tells you lots of things, but what you need to realise is just because he says them does not make them true. He is either lying or deluded.

You are used to turning to him for advice, guidance, support; on the spot, in the evenings when there's only two of you there, you've got no-one else to turn to when you want to talk things over; so you're used to going by what he says. You're in the habit of accepting something is true because he's told you so, because he's intelligent and he can make a good argument. He's also had a lot of years to observe you and know exactly which buttons to press.

Please, step back for a moment and realise that he is not right about everything. He's older than you, maybe better educated (though you sound far from stupid), but that doesn't make him automatically right about stuff. Particularly stuff you know in your heart of hearts is wrong, but you can't somehow convince him of it, and eventually you give in because you don't want to upset things. Like when he accuses you of making him do a job he hates, and you know that's simply untrue. Or that you refused sex when you were actually begging him for it. Don't tell me he really believes that you did, or that if he does believe it, he is quite sane.

Whoever told you that companionship is the best you can expect from a long term relationship (who did tell you that? was it your mum? could she possibly be justifying why she stayed as long as she did with a drunken asshole?), well companionship is a great thing yes (though by no means the only thing!), but it should make you feel good. And yours simply does not. Admit it to yourself, and this time, stop going "yes but..."

That's the cognitive dissonance thing someone mentioned earlier. Where you convince yourself something is ok really, even though it clearly is not. Someone outside the relationship - lots of someones in this case! - will say Oh my god, that is awful, but instead of agreeing you start in defensive mode, justifying why you are still there, basically. And then you end up even convincing yourself. It's hard and painful to get your eyes back in focus and see the extent to which you're being controlled. For a while, as an intelligent person, you will likely be damned embarrassed at what you have allowed him to do to you. At the lies you have believed, and the ones you've told yourself. You have to forgive yourself for that. Your mistakes are understandable and the reasons you did what you did made sense at the time. But they were mistakes, don't you see? They were lies. And once you start to see manipulation for what it is, it will never work on you to the same extent again (though it may take some time to change your reaction to all of the triggers).

Then, and only then, you can tell whether you want to leave, and will know that it is your choice.

geraldinetheluckygoat · 18/09/2010 12:02

Please please leave, OP. instead of imagining how horrible it will be when you divorce, imagine the great bit that will follow. The bit where you will be happy and confident, where you wont have to question what you are feeling all the time, where you wont have to have demeaning and unsatisfying sex, where you get to decide what to do with your money. You might meet someone lovely, you might spend a bit of time on your own, but what ever happens, you will be so much happier. You will regret it I think in the future if you don't leave now...
good luck xxx

BertieBotts · 18/09/2010 12:30

Just wanted to second yes babysteps are good - counselling for yourself (not couples counselling, if there are any kind of abusive behaviours it is not a good idea) Also try to read as much as you can about emotional abuse. Keep imagining your future in two directions - with him and without him - which one is better?

I think it was the beginning of the end with my XP when I used to take DS out of the house in his pram under the guise of getting him to sleep, though I was also trying to get him away from the arguments. We lived near a load of council flats and I'd walk endless figure eights around them looking up at people's windows, wondering who lived there and whether they were happier than I was. I fantasised about someone I used to know back in college and getting back in touch with him. I thought about going to uni and how I was going to do all these things which XP talked me out of.

XP was also demanding sexually and parts of it were similar to what you describe. I don't even want to type out what he got me to do but I do remember the revulsion. He also managed to convince me that I was damaged sexually and needed medical help, this was not true! He told me things about my past sexual history which I came to believe, it was only after I left that I read my old diaries and realised he was lying. Then I was angry, what gave him the right to rob me of my memories?

I left nearly a year ago now and in the last ten months, I have had wonderful, fulfilling sex with the guy I remembered from college (Grin) - had a brief wobble over whether I actually wanted to go out with him or not, actually in the end both decided it was probably not the best time, but I'm happy with that and actually enjoying being on my own! I've applied for a part time degree and been approved though I am still waiting for confirmation of a place. I moved to the area of town which I always wanted to live in - it's not the nicest area in the world, but it's (mostly) quiet and it's near a nice little school and I can walk everywhere now which is so liberating, rather than begging bus money or waiting for him to drive me everywhere. I can do what I want with DS without having to ask his opinion or answer to his whims. DS is so much more confident, though in a way if I could go back I would change time and make somebody else his father. It seems so unfair that such a lovely little boy has to have someone like that as his Dad :( All he does is love him and XP is already letting him down by cancelling contact visits, not paying maintenance, and knocking up someone else three months after we split.

Eurostar · 18/09/2010 12:34

As MollyChambers said above - every reply on this thread has been telling you that your relationship is not a normal thing to put up with, that's a rare thing on Mumsnet. I hope that this helps you in being able to start to believe in your ability and right to move on from this.

There's nothing this man is giving you that you couldn't get somewhere else, even if you were single - the odd gesture of crisps and ice cream and helping out when you're poorly? I've had flatmates do that for me as I did for them. The going shopping with you - well as you said, actually it just encourages you to get into debt - and the more debt you have the more he can ensure that you can't get away. There's other things you could do of a weekend that would provide companionship and wouldn't involve getting into debt with pointless material things. There's all sorts of activity clubs out there - have a look at www.spiceuk.com for instance.

...and there's so much this man is taking from you that being away from him would stop.

The way the sex goes between you - think of you sitting hungry at the table, he is eating a big dinner that you cooked for the both of you but he put it all on his plate. You sit waiting for some left overs because he's convinced you that that is all you can expect and his hunger needs to be satiated while yours doesn't. Eventually you get a scrap of rind and some half chewed potatoes. This is no way to live, it's not what anyone would want to be normal, it would make your body as undernourished as your soul is right now.

Wish you lots of strength to make it through - have a look at women's aid webpage for help and advice in breaking free.

dignified · 18/09/2010 12:38

Lots of Narcs have an arsehole fixation.

LoveBeing · 18/09/2010 12:49

You are worht so much more than this.

Can you really live the next 30 years of your life like this?

VictoriasLittleKnownSecret · 18/09/2010 13:14

My Narc was an arsehole

CarGirl · 18/09/2010 14:21

Hope you're okay, the more you revealed the sadder it has become.

"He's always happy to pick me up" yes because he wants to control where you go!

The fact he is much older than you, what 30 year old pick up with an 18 year old and isn't at it like rabbits - even if it's just for the first 6 months Confused

He is so awful to you, sex is the least of your problems tbh - why do you want to have sex with someone who treats you like that Sad

1234ThumbWar · 18/09/2010 14:42

I got divorced when I was only a couple of years younger than you are. The circumstances were different, but I thought that I'd blown my chances of being a mother and felt that I wasn't attractive enough to ever find a decent man. Within a year I was in a very very happy relationship with my now DH and was pregnant with my first of three dc's. You still have time to be very happy - I've been lonely and married and there's no need to live your life like that. Run - please.

dignified · 18/09/2010 14:55

Whatis , Everyone is encouraging you to find another man. I hope you do too, but i also want to say that its perfetly possible to be happy on your own too. Im single and i love it , i go out all the time , have a laugh , do what i want ect.

Im currently in my jammys with a brew and a bacon butty , its fab ! I dumped my abusive wanker and ive never been happier , ive gone off to uni , learnt to drive , life is totally differant. I say this often but i often laugh till my cheeks hurt . When was the last time you laughed like that ?

1234ThumbWar · 18/09/2010 15:03

That's a good point, I'm very glad I had a few years in my early twenties where I lived on my own. I'd been in a relationship prior to that where I knew it should end, but was frightened of being on my own. Once I plucked up the courage to do it I realised that it wasn't frightening at all and there were many many many advantages.

minibmw2010 · 18/09/2010 15:20

He goes to the shops and buys you things when you're down? Wow ... what a guy ... that doesn't make him better than your father, it just makes him different. And maybe your parents relationship appears weird to you, but that's them, this is you!! You are 33, you have a chance to meet a normal man, one who will tell you how sexy/lovely you are, one who will actually want to have sex with you, not just with himself .... You've read it all before in the previous posts, I'm sure, but it couldn't be clearer that you have to leave this guy. You will never be a mother, never have a family if you stay with this man.

squeaver · 18/09/2010 15:29

I don't know what's more sad about your story: that you're in this situation now or that you could still be in this situation in 10 or 20 or even 30 years.

Time is on your side. Life is out there. Happiness is possible. Just take a step in the right direction.

HerBeatitude · 18/09/2010 15:31

Even if you do have children with him, it will be a disaster. You'll never be able to get rid of him.

Get out. get out, get out get out.

But yes, you probably need to do it in baby steps.

so here is some info about emotional abuse

and here's some more

whatisnormality · 18/09/2010 16:59

I really cannot thank you all enough for all of your thoughts and comments. I can't stop thinking about what everyone has said and today has been really weird in that I'm seeing him in a different way. I'm normally so miserable with him but today almost every thing he's done and said has amused me because so many of you got him spot on.

As we speak he's having a nap upstairs - normally I would go up to cuddle him and try and make him happy - today I have no intention of doing that.

The day started with him making me a cup of tea (he only ever does this on weekend days to ensure I can't sleep in) and as I was shattered and it was only 8am I cotinued sleeping just for him to talk at me for 10 minutes and then go off in a sulk stating that we obviously weren't talking to each other (I hadn't actually opened my eyes and would have loved a lie in).

Next step was the minute I got in shower he asked what I planned to do today. I answered that I was going to study and he said that he wanted us to do my favourite walk (he rarely suggests that) so I said that would be fine and of course he said that my glass was always half empty and nothing's good enough (apparently fine is too negative?!). Then he shouted through the door that I had 5 minutes to be in the car or he'd drive off without me (I had literally just got in the shower!)

I got to the car a couple of minutes late so he huffed and puffed. We got to the village and popped into the shop looking for bread to feed the ducks- I pointed out a loaf which he touched and said it was hard so I touched it to and concurred and he snapped 'of course it's hard I told you that so you had no reason to check'

To be honest after about 3 hours in I stopped making mental notes and just kept smiling to myself as I've really never noticed it before to this degree. He made so many derogatory comments about people as we walked along.... I could walk faster than x runner, he knew y runner was coming as they were flat footed, a baby I said was gorgeous was ugly because it looked like it's mother, a lady with a collection tin I pu money in said thanks for supporting us and he said 'what for supporting the gypsies', the ladies next to us in a cafe ordered starters and main and he said they were 'really going for it', a woman came in and asked the waiter something and he sneered at her and said she must be an outsider, I asked for a dessert menu and said I didn't fancy anything which he said of course I should know that as I didn't order anything last time we came whilst rolling his eyes at my stupidity..... There were so many examples in our little trip today that usually I would never notice.

Because I was acting unusually today we of course spent a fortune on things we can't afford, but that will be the last time.

I really can't thank you all enough for all of your valuable comments and for opening my eyes to things that I have never previously seen or noticed or just accepted as normal as I am a little annoying.

OP posts:
whatisnormality · 18/09/2010 17:02

Sorry about all the typos - typing really fast in case he comes down!

OP posts:
CarGirl · 18/09/2010 17:12

Shock he is truly dreadful.

All the best, glad you have got your brother and friends to help x

BertieBotts · 18/09/2010 17:18

:) I remember that stage! Being able to laugh and recognise everything as a pattern rather than being constantly confused and upset and generally depressed by it all. This is such a big step. Once you recognise his behaviour for what it is he becomes less able to control you.

The bit about the tea is interesting actually - it reminds me of a post someone made on the NPD thread about how her ex husband used to cook her wonderful dinners which she wasn't hungry for. And how she felt confused because to an outsider it seemed such a lovely thing to do, but really the motivation is sinister and intended to control. You are spot on with your observation of it only being at the weekend meaning he probably doesn't want you having a lie in. And yet how could you complain? You couldn't exactly say to a friend at work "My husband is so annoying, he insists on making me cups of tea!"

As an aside, do you know how to clear your internet history, or preferably use private browsing?