Is this a normal sex life???

[whatisnormality]

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

• Always initiated by me
• 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
• Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
• Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

Ah petal it's not frustrating for me, it might be for you though.

"For the first time ever in our relationship he then (without putting it too crudely) played with me" - oh my goodness for the first time ever? That is unbelievable. God knows how you even manage to have sex from "cold". Feeling physical affection from your partner is SUCH an important part of a relationship. :( You know he is just throwing you th crumbs to try to keep you around. He wants more of your time, that's all. He will never change.

It's not weak and ridiculous - you sound tough, that comment about being his slave/prostitute are the words of a strong woman who is not afraid to speak out.

Keep posting, and when you do leave start a new thread and we'll put together a Decent Man Shopping List of the qualities/behaviours that you do want. :)

Op, this is so far from normal it's untrue. He doesn't like penetrative sex? That would be a deal breaker for me. You will never be sexually fulfilled with this man. Leave, and make room for a man with a sexual side which compliments your own.

Op , if let someone 'play with me' who had treated me so badly and had been so sexually 'abusive' to be honest I would feel violated. It would make me feel physically sick. I'm amazed you let him touch you.
yuk sorry but it's horrible

Whatis, sweetie, reread what you have put: you say you can't believe he is manipulative, and yet you then say that when you said the relationship was based on 'fraud and lies', he said you didn't understand the meanings of the words. That's not only incredibly patronising, but manipulative - he's so used to getting you to believe you're stupid and wrong that he actually thinks he can get you to back down with something ridiculous like accusing a grown adult of not understanding simple words like 'fraud' or 'lies'!

The 'playing with you' thing is also highly manipulative - he's just doing it now to convince you he's changed and things will be how you'd like them to be. It won't last, believe me. Every single person reading this knows that. And please, ask yourself this: if he is happy to 'play with you' now, how come he has NEVER done so before? What is his excuse? There is none! Why has he never given a shit about your sexual needs or happiness before now?! Even if he was some bizarre Victorian throwback who genuinely thinks woman have no sexual needs, at the very least it makes him a vile and selfish sexist who sees women as less then human to expect you to do things to him and with him solely for his pleasure! Reading about him 'playing with you' for the first time, I felt like crying for you. Learning how to sexual pleasure your partner should be the first sexual thing a couple do in any relationship - not some sort of desperate band-aid after over a decade when the unhappy, downtrodden partner finally dares to speak up.

His sobbing in bed is not out of his love for you or your relationship - those tears are 100% for himself. He has his life set up perfectly to suit his own twisted needs and likes and selfish, abusive personality and the threat of that changing or disappearing must terrify him. To which, you need to realise that you need to get to a place where your only response is a sarcastic 'DIDDUMS'. He should never have had such a lifestyle at your (or anyone else's) expense in the first place. You are worth soooo much more than this.

DO you want to have kids?

Do you want to have kids with this man?

If it's yes to the first, and no to the second, why are you wasting any more time with him?

Sorry to sound harsh, and I know you've had to make a huge shift in your perception of your relationship recently, but you need to start thinking about your own needs now.

You've sacrificed too much of your life trying to make this man happy.

He kissed you for the first time in years? Never mind him playing with you, it was that bit that made my eyes fill for you. And my stomach did churn a bit: I keep wondering how you can bear to let him touch you when he clearly thinks so little of you.

He is using all the tricks he can think of to get you to stay. Isn't it called "hoovering" when someone does that?

for getting the dictionary out when he tried mind games to make you feel stupid. I love the thought of him redefining the English language to keep you in your place, only to be met with you calmly saying "hmm, that's not what the meaning in my Collins concise is...". Yay you! But doesn't it just show him much he underestimates you?

Oh, you are going to cope brilliantly on your own, don't worry about that. You clearly have your head screwed on and your eyes wide open now. It's just getting that foot out of the door, isn't it?

Sorry to hear about your friend: she is lucky to have you to support her.

I don't know how you've managed to stick it out this far until now to be honest. I'm exhausted just reading it all.

If only I could put a crystal ball in front of you and show you how amazing your life will be once you're free of all this toxic bullshit. The fact you're even wavering in your resolve just because he turned on the water works and kissed you for the first ime in ten years is a testament to how warped your sense of what's decent treatment.

And despite all the wailing and the self flagellation in front of you he still couldn't stop himself undermining you by telling you you didn't understand the meaning of the words you were using.

Never mind what he wants or what he's going to do; at the moment it's still all about him. He's throwing you paltry scraps and suddenly you're thinking that maybe it might get better. Forget it! Even if he's the sorriest person in the world (and I don't believe for one second that this is anything other than an act to get you to stay), then there'd still be too much water under the bridge for me and it would all still be too little too late.

Just leave. Just go and be free and happy. I promise you it will be the best thing you ever ever do.

Stockholm Syndrome

OP, please look that up.

Leave, leave, leave....then leave some more

Thank you guys - you're right it is just manipulation and I've been stupid enough (again) to get sucked in.

Initially when he started with the tactile behaviour I was repulsed but actually apart from the kissing (which was weird because we don't seem to be able to do that- it just didn't work) after a few minutes it was ok - a bit weird but ok. I just don't have the resolve to say no to anything and don't seem to have the guts to follow through when I try to leave. You are all right though - why suddenly realise after 15 years?? Also, I felt awful letting someone do that and doing nothing back (I couldn't even contemplate that at the moment) so can't really understand how he's done it the opposite way round for so long.

So much was said last night (after 2 bottles of wine), much of it just going over and over what we've been talking about over the past few weeks. Many times he implied that no one else would think this was abusive and that the words I'm using are too strong.... I kept saying that my counsellor has given me links and I've been doing my own research (I would LOVE to say that over 600 women on a forum concur it's unreasonable behaviour). Then he goes back to the 'I hate myself', 'I don't know what you see in me', 'I treat you like s... because I hate myself' blah, blah, blah. We are both like broken records at the moment.

You're also all right about the tears being for him - they are definitely tears of fear as he's realising what's happening. They're also always perfectly timed for when I really need to be sleeping (for example at 3am) or they'll be so loud and late that he needs to get up and noisily make tea downstairs

I think you should start a plan of how to leave. Start to get key documents in place, passport, bank stuff, birth certificate and other stuff.

Is there anywhere you could go?

I can't believe you're still there, to be honest, but then I haven't been warped by his bullshit and it's much easier to see it all objectively from here.

You're dragging your feet. Start to think about how you can extricate yourself from this sorry excuse for a man and start thinking about your future.

fucking hell, if he was a dog he would be euthanised

"Also, I felt awful letting someone do that and doing nothing back (I couldn't even contemplate that at the moment) so can't really understand how he's done it the opposite way round for so long."

Because he doesn't think like you! You are a nice person, he is not. You could never just let someone try to pleasure you for years on end without caring a bit about how they feel. He can and did.

I don't doubt that there are reasons that he is this way. But that doesn't change the fact that he has treated you appallingly and you are unlikely to ever be happy if you stay with him. You are a strong woman to have borne this for so long, and I don't doubt you could bear a few more months or years, but you need to fight against the urge to do so - what a waste of your life.

There's a whole world out there waiting for you to discover it, and it includes real, loving human relationships.

This is urgent! I think you would be a great mum; you have such a nice, caring nature. If you want to stand any chance of having a family, you need to leave this man, spend some time recovering and getting to know yourself and what you want, and then meeting a nice man to share a warm, loving relationship, and raise kids with.

You're 33, right? Sorry to be blunt but you really don't have much time. Fertility drops considerably in your 30s, and although people do have children in their 40s, you really can't count on it. It's not guaranteed at all. Sadly many women who wait until their late 30s / early 40s find out that they've left it too late.

This man now stands in the position of robbing you of something which you can never get back - your fertile years, and the chance to have children. You need to leave NOW.

I hope that helps. This kind of thinking did help encourage me leave my ex. I came out of a relationship with an abusive ex when I was your age, and just a few years later I have a lovely DS with my BF who is a lovely man, with a heart of gold, and my DS is just wonderful. We have fun together, DP cares immensely for me and our boy, and I look forward to coming home at the end of the day.

You have no time to waste! Start making a plan for how to leave.

This man is really revolting. He gives me the creeps. What sort of man cries all the time? Yuk

Is there anyway that you can leave?

I'm sorry I don't know much about divorce - if whatis divorces her ex, what happens about the house? Can he be compelled to sell the house and split the money?

How does divorce work in practical terms?

Thank you lowrib -that's what really made me start thinking. I do want children.

He's always assumed we're infertile and I've spent years trying to tell him that it's because we don't have sex often enough to ever concieve. He also blames me because I go to the toilet after we have had sex (after about 5 minutes) and he's always said that I ruin the chances of anything happening.

I used to want children with him. Now I don't. When I started this thread I guess I was hoping for advice on where our sex life (and resulting lack of children) was going wrong however suffice to say the results have startled me and changed my perception of everything I always thought about my life.

I don't have a clue about divorce and at the moment he has nowhere to go. I could go to my brothers or when things have settled down could stay with my friend (I'm not going to tell her anything more about what's been going on as she has other priorities at the moment and I certainly don't want her worrying about me).

I love the comment about if he was a dog!!

I think he is depressed and very selfish (hence the tears). I'm really not sure if they're crocodile tears or not?! I guess his life as he knows it seems to be crashing around him....

but how is it crashing down for him, whatis ??

he cries, bares his (dark, very dark) soul, you feel sorry for him, continue to want to please him, repeatedly submit to his weird idea of a sexual relationship etc etc etc so nothing changes

look, it is not up to me or anyone else on this thread to make you feel bad for being stuck in some horrible nightmarish inertia... but what are you going to do ????

you cannot continue to fanny around, navel-gaze and "try to understand" him for very much longer

in 12 months time, he will not have changed, and you will be a year older and a few thousand more of your fertile eggs will have gone down the pan

what will have to happen for you to to take action ??

erm, did I manage to hide my frustration there ?

nope ?

thought not...

< prepares injection for euthanasia >

yes whatis, you have to stop fannying round.
Stop trying to analyse his problems
I haven't heard you talk about your own needs, your own plans. All you have done through this whole thread is focus on him! can't you see that!
Sorry but, there is no point talking about him any more, either you are panning to leave or you are going to stay.

Let his life crash Whatis. I've always liked the term paraylsis through analysis, don't fall into that trap.

You said earlier that "I promised not to tell
anyone", presumably about some of the things you discussed with him. A message for him - Nice work Mr.Whatis YOU KNOW deep down that what you do to Whatis is WRONG; you are ill, look for help, do not drag whatis with you into your unhealthy world.

The more I think about it, whatis, the more I think that leaving is also doing him a favour.

Then he is forced to confront the situation. He might find someone else to treat as badly as he's treated you, or he might actually grow up and deal with his problems. Thing is, he's an adult, and he doesn't sound depressed - as in clinically depressed - so much as woebegone. I'd be miserable if I'd had my own selfish way for 15 years and then had to stop being a selfish fucker and take care of myself.

I think leaving is the best thing you can do for both of you tbh.

And I agree with everyone who says if you want children, it's a decision you have to make now. The longer you leave it, the harder it could be. Ultimately you could be deciding between him and motherhood. Please don't choose him.

I agree with jiggerypopery 100%.

I'm sorry whatis but you really don't have time to waste on him any longer. If you want children(but not with him) that needs to be your priority. The first step obviously has to be to leave him.

Don't worry about not finding anyone else, I'm certain you will! My friend split up with her bf earlier this year, they had an 18 month old. She was worried noone else would want her because she had another man's child. She is now engaged to a wonderful man and they plan to ttc another next year after the wedding. There is hope for everyone, you sound like a fantastic woman who deserves better!

By the way Whatis - hows the cat? ( seems a good judge of character to me )

lol at the cat being a good judge of character

but true

Hi whatis,

Have followed formt he beginning and am glad to see you back, even though the p.c. was being repaired, I thougt you wonuldn't be able to come back here again...but look here you are, realising your DH is a shit and not knowing how to get out.

So, you posted at the same time my relationship with my XDP broke down. It's been nearly a month now, but I've been doing fine.

Unfortunately, we have a child together and the thought of having to have any kind of contact with him makes me feel sick, but I don't do it alone and have a wonderful family and friends how have supported me through the way. many people have given me support and I didn't think i would get that.

I have had the constant texts, sometimes up to 20 in a day, some with pictures of our daughter and words underneath, the nicest one being a pic of DD and the words "mummy, where's daddy??" and then long rambling messages on the answer phone telling me how much he has changed and how he needs me and his DD in his life ad infinitum.

Other than that i have been having as lovely time getting fully into my work and seeting a nice bedtime routine that includes cuddles and classic fm, enjoying the space that is mine (well, the council but same same!!)

I guess that point I am trying to make here is although I was terrified of making the decision first of all and thinking that i would never be able to do things by myself and get out of the horribly abusive and controlling relationship such as yours....i've been.....GREAT

You know that you can do this, you know you will have support, even if you have no other family and friends apart from the one you've posted about and your brother...if you let MNers know where you are there will be others who will meet you for coffee and a rant.....you know what you have to do and i wn't lie, it is hard at first, but thank fuck you don't have children with this waste of bloody space and can make a clean break of it. you never have to answer his emails, texts, phone calls ever again apart from to serve him with the divorce papers and when you have your post-divorce party....send me the invite

much un-mning love
king x x