Is this a normal sex life???

[whatisnormality]

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

• Always initiated by me
• 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
• Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
• Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

Hi whatis I hope you're OK.

Just a quick update as he's popped out and the pc's back.

It's been a really interesting week and I don't know what to think or how to feel.

We've talked more than we ever have and he's told me so much - many things he should have told me 15 years ago. He seems to have finally seriously realised that I'm on the brink of leaving and is being clingy and lovey and really very needy.

We had a major discussion last Sunday where I was completely honest and it ended after 3 hours with him saying if I felt like that I needed to leave him, I asked why he couldn't leave me and he said that he never would. Agreed this was the course of action, cried all night and the next morning he cuddled up to me and said that he 'didn't want to argue as it's too emotionally draining' completely ignoring the fact we'd agreed to split up the night before. He has done this often before and it really messes with my head as I have no energy left to start again.

Where to start with what we've spoken about.... I might post several posts as he may come home and I'll loose the post otherwise. He said:

1. he hates himself
2. he hasn't been happy for years if ever (not in our relationship, in his life)
3. the only thing that ever makes him happy is me
4. he actually said that often when he says things to me he means those things about himself
5. that he has treated me like 's...'
6. that he realises that on occassions where he actually contributes to the house he makes a trophy of it 7)that he doesn't enjoy penatrative sex as it is not sensitive for him
7. That he never masturbates and keeps himself clean and tidy for me

Loads and loads more things were discussed, some of which I can't post on here as I promised I wouldn't tell anyone

Sorry - posted as I thought he was coming back...

We talked so much and a few things make a little more sense but many still don't.

I told him that I felt like our relationship was built on fraud and lies and that I resent him so much. He asked if I hate him and find him repulsive and I really can't answer that at the moment. I'm just so angry and have really realised how much of who I am he's taken and ruined over the last few years because he's miserable in himself. He said that he's proud to have me as his wife and that I'm too good for him etc etc and yet he's treated me like dirt for so many years.

He said that he can understand why people use prostitues and I told him that he does - I'm his unpaid slave and prostitue (I've realised with so many of the things he said with complete sincerity that he really doesn't realise how wrong so much of our relationship is)

Not really sure what to do. Do I give him the chance to see a therapist and try to understand the reasons why he hates himself and finds himself repulsive. Or do I leave him and let him find out for himself.

So confused. I haven't had a chance to speak to my friends or brother this week but probably need to although I'm limited on what I feel i can tell them as I promised him I wouldn't - it doesn't explain why he's treated me like dirt or why he hasn't told me for years but it explains certain behaviours.

Whatis - you have wasted so many years of your life on this man. I still think you need to leave, at least to be apart while he sees a therapist and deals with his issues if nothing else.

Him changing depends on 2 things: He goes to intensive therapy for years (because that is how long it is likely to take - he is hard wired in this behaviour) and he wants to change.
A couple of things leads to believe that he doesn't want to change (or doesn't believe he needs to change):
"he really doesn't realise how wrong so much of our relationship is" - he doesn't really 'get' it does he?
All his responses seem very designed to make you feel sorry for him. Did he ask you what you wanted? Has he actually made any changes by himself since you talked?
"the next morning he cuddled up to me and said that he 'didn't want to argue as it's too emotionally draining' completely ignoring the fact we'd agreed to split up the night before" - he still thinks he can just butter you up and it'll be OK again.

I also think that he doesn't hate himself - he hates you and what you are - his partner/wife/lover. Don't take that personally as I mean he would hate any partner. That is why he is treating you like shit.

Please leave him. If he wants to change he will go to therapy and he can do that regardless of whether you are around. He needs to change for himself not for you.

I just do not understand why you are still there

He has issues yes, there is no doubt. He is also a master manipulator, sexual abuser and emotional blackmailer. In fact, he could run a masterclass in it

He only wants you ...too much pressure on you to stick around and try and "cure" him

You are not going to split with this man, though, are you ? You are going to hang on and hang on until there is nothing left of you

That is very distressing to witness.

Yes SF. I also feel that Whatis will never leave him.
It has been a harrowing (because of the way you have been treated) and frustrating thread because throughout the whole thread I knew you weren't going to leave him.

You seem to be waiting for a revelation or excuse to stay with him even though you have seen for yourself absolute reasons to leave him.

It is time to decide what you WANT to do based on the fact that he WILL NOT change. He will not Whatis, however much you would like him to.

whatis, my manipulative ex is a bit like your DH. Every time I summoned up the energy to leave him, he'd turn up again and act like we were still together. You say

"He has done this often before and it really messes with my head as I have no energy left to start again."

I can really relate to this. Now I see all those second chances I gave him as wasted time. I wish I'd walked when I first knew I wanted to.

I did leave him eventually though - skinnygirlNOT just because she hasn't left yet doesn't mean she won't.

whatis, he does not deserve any more chances. You have given him more than enough already. Stop thinking about his needs and start thinking about what would make you happy and how to get there. Believe me it'a not this man.

Whatis - he gets to manipulate and control you, in exchange for you licking his arse and doing everything for him. He's never going to want you to leave is he?

I understand that it must be hard for you to make your own decisions when you have spent your life under the control of others. But if you do ever decide you really want to leave him you need to stop discussing it with him and just go.

What do YOU want Whatis?

I really wish he would beat you up physically rather than this softly sweet approach which has you on a string because you just can't see the DAMAGE.

He is clever because he knows how to get you to look after his needs, he knows what to say to you. He will never never find anyone like you again. I'm sure he loves you very very much because you provide everything for him. You are prepared to perform sexual acts that give him total pleasure and leave you totally unfulfilled; stay and that will be for the rest of your life. He will never ever leave you, you meet his needs - DOES HE MEET YOUR NEEDS?

merrywidow, I feel your frustration too, but ouch.

whatis, please re-read your posts (you can use "customise" to highlight all posts by the OP of a thread). I just did this and it's a potted history of his manipulation of you, his evasions, abuse, tantrums, stonewalling and selfishness. And this new tack of saying how dreadful he is is just a new strategy because the old ones have stopped working. He is really, really good at thus, isn't he? Don't feel stupid: the man's a pro and has done a number on you for years.

I don't think he does want to change at all - he wants to confuse you into staying with him. Again. Then, when you're back in your box and he's screwed the lid on again, he can start up with the same old shit as before.

He's laid his cards on the table: he isn't going to leave you. Please leave him: you only get one life.

Hello again, whatis :) What an extraordinary week you've had! It must be both hard and fascinating to learn more of what goes on in your husband's head & heart. Extremely difficult, too, I imagine: most of what he's telling you highlights his unsuitability as a partner - but, at the same time, we instinctively warm to people as they open up to us. No wonder you feel confused. I support what your other respondents have said. He is highlighting his incapacity to maintain a helathy relationship and, worse, is demonstrating that he is blind to this fact. It really makes your decision easier - though it probably doesn't feel that way to you.

My father was (according to posthumous, informal diagnosis) a sociopath. During his final years, he took to telling great swathes of hidden information about his past, his thoughts and feelings. There were some very weird episodes, so strange that I underwent hypnosis to find out whether they'd really happened Dad's revelations gave me astounding insights into why he was so damaged; what made him hate & fear people as he did. I felt ... sorry for him? Not quite; I felt sympathy, compassion - he'd suffered greatly but that didn't excuse the suffering he inflicted on other human beings. Nor did it repair the mess he'd made of his family.

I told you about that in case your conversations with H have thrown you similarly off-balance. From what you've said, he is simply not equipped to share equal love, respect, warmth & caring with another person. It's sad enough - but you deserve better.

One of the problems her IMO is that you are a lovely, kind and caring person, and you are at danger judging him by your standards - i.e. giving him the benefit of the doubt - because he sounds sorry, thinking that he will make every effort to make things better - after all that's what you'd do in his situation.

Only he's not like you, he doesn't have the same standards, nor will he. It's not something that can be learnt so late in life IMO.

Imagine you split up now, is there any chance - no matter how sad you were feeling - that you would get together with an 18 year old boy, take his virginity, make him satisfy you sexually but never make any attempt to satisfy him, put him down constantly and generally make his life miserable but insist that it was his fault. Would you ever be able to act like this?

No, of course you wouldn't, because you're a decent person. But that's what he's done to you.

Being sad, or messed up, or whatever is no excuse for the way he's treated you and he really doesn't deserve any more chances. He does not operate in the way you do. He is exploiting your good nature, and you need to get away from him.

Oops I meant "One of the problems here"

OP - glad to see you back here. He is trying to blind you to your wants, needs, feelings and upset by a constant barrage of talking about his wants, needs, feelings and upset.

No doubt he has a lot of work to do on himself. You cannot help him do this, and you don't need to waste your life watching him do this (or, more likely, not).

The fact that you couldn't answer his question about whether you find him repulsive says a lot. You obviously DO find him repulsive, otherwise you could reply. But he is asking you to swallow down your disgust and stick with him for him. Not for you as a person, or you as a couple, just for him. He's basically saying "ah, you feel like that eh? Well how about putting your needs second for the rest of your life anyway? It's been good enough for you so far, what the hell is different now?"

Don't let that argument sway you. get some space, have you been to say with your friend or brother yet?

SF, Skinny and Merry, OP has been posting about this for a few weeks. She is only now working it out and getting strong. This takes time. I understand that you may be fruastrated with her, but it will take her time to get free of this man. She needs support, she does not need y'all attacking her, she is already getting enough of that in her home. This thread has helped her somewhat and I hope it continues, but if you guys really think that a coule of weeks on a support thread is going to be enough for her to break free from an abusive relationship that has been going on for years you are mistaken.

Whatis, he senses the end is near and is pulling out all the stops to keep you there. I know, I've been there. At this point in my last relationship, my Ex dropped an 'abusive past' bombshell and even went into therapy. It didn't work, of course it was never going to as he was just using it as another method of control and to stop me leaving. It bought him more of my time, but nothing changed and I left him in the end. I can't tell you what to do, all I can say is be careful and be aware that the recent developments may have little to do with him actually wanting to change and more about him wanting to buy more time. He has been able to break you down in the past and he is pulling out all the stops to do it again.

Do you want children at some point in your life?
In our heart of heart do you want this man to father your children?.

Others have been more eloquent.
I'm out

Dione, I am not attacking OP, just trying to nudge her into thinking about what she wants.

We have all classified this as an abusive relationship because we don't feel that anything that goes on between Whatis and her husband is normal by our standards. To me, he sounds like a needy child and Whatis has become used to looking after him sacrificing her own needs all the way down the line. I personally find the sexual aspect of the relationship disturbing as for me it falls outside of what I would want to do intimately with my lover.

Whatis - try to write a list of what you need, emotionally and physically, then ask yourself if your husband provides this. His needs are met already so begin to think of your own, this is not unreasonable - you may even come to the conclusion that looking after him is where you should be; however my guess is you are changing, you know deep down this is wrong for you, and that is why you came here in the first place.

I agree with Yesyouknowme. If you know thad you don't want children with him, but that some day you want kids, then you have to get out as soon as you can.

I think you've given him enough of your time, and enough chances to change.

Please keep posting. You've come so far in such a short space of time

also do you REALLY want to condemn yourself to lifetime of living with someone who doesn't like penetrative sex? That to me is sheer madness

The OP has not been attacked. She has had an extraordinary level of support. There are harsher posts mixed in with the softer ones.

Is it attacking someone to raise the question about whether someone is going to leave, when all the signs are that she is going to stay and continue to live with a sexual abuser. ????

Kittywise - I think the penetrative sex point particularly highlights his selfishness. When you love someone you want to make them happy, whether it's something you particularly enjoy or not. Seeing the enjoyment you give them is sometimes what makes it worthwhile.

I do appreciate all of the messages of support and can understand why it may seem frustrating.

We argued again last night (or I spent 2 hours ranting at him) over and over the same material again because I still struggle to believe that he has been that manipulative during our whole relationship.

He has suddenly started being really physically affectionate which is all rather alien. I haven't touched him once. Last night he kissed me (it felt wrong because we haven't done that for so many years and didn't really work). For the first time ever in our relationship he then (without putting it too crudely) played with me (I didn't do anything to him) and he did it again this morning.

He is being very, very lovey.

Regarding why I haven't left yet - I know it probably sounds completely weak and ridiculous but I have tried so many times and am getting stronger and more confident every day. I'm certainly taking less crap from him.

Dione and itsghoul thank you both for sharing your experiences. You're right that many people suffer abuse and yet they don't treat others the way our partners and fathers do. I do feel sympathy for him and stupidly am still in the stage where I want him to be happy.

I think I do believe what he's told me and that explains a lot but saying that he's just an unhappy person also says a lot. I'm sorry this probably isn't making and sense and I am sorry too that this may be frustrating for some people to realise. I told him last night that it was like he is keeping me hostage and I can't escape and even though I've started to realise so much over the last few weeks I still can't bear to hear him sobbing in bed and trying so hard to cling onto whatever's left.

I told him last night that our relationship was based on fraud and lies (I actually got the dictionary out when he told me that I didn't understand the meaning of the words and clarified). I also told him that he doesn't love me - he hates me. I'm being quite assertive but it's just prompted this new persona to come out.

My friend has other priorities at the moment (her friend died yesterday having been ill for a while) so I need to support her and will talk to my brother when I have time (it's been a manic couple of weeks).

Thank you again - I have so much food for thought and really cannot thank all of the posters enough - particularly those who have been through similar experiences.

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