Is this a normal sex life???

[whatisnormality]

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

• Always initiated by me
• 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
• Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
• Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

Larry - I know what you mean re the term of abuse on this site, but in this case the OP's brother and best friend also dislike husband and wishes she would leave.

I would urge OP not to find flat. Give the husband a date by which he has to have found a flat and a further date by which he has to leave. You will soon get a feel as to whether he is genuine.

Annie,

Do you know what her husband would say? Do you know what mutual friends might say? The answer is no and, unless you do, you do not really know a lot about the relationship. And I am NOT saying the OP is lying. She is telling a story honestly from her own perspective. However, people cannot be objective about their own relationships. It is just very hard, if not impossible.

He hisses at the cat?! And this sends warning flags to half the people here. He doesn't hit the cat...

You all may well be right BUT you also may be wrong. The thing is that you don't know. And, if you are right, she has hundreds of posters telling her to leave him. A single post injecting some simple caveats (talk to your friends, consider counselling) is merely an attempt to allow the OP to consider her own feelings.

Notalways,

Yeah, the bf and brother is not a good sign. Agreed.

She has spoken to her friend. Her friend has offered her refuge at her house. Neither her brother nor her best friend like her husband.

I understand you want to defend your ill informed post, Larry, but please, this is in Relationships, and one should hope posters were giving the topic some thought before posting.

It does not matter what her husband thinks. The op is unhappy. He is abusing her, controlling her and manipulating her. Why would anybody be interested in what he is saying or thinking?

If you dont see anything wrong in being cruel to animals and people alike, then I suggest you go and have a think.

QS,

That is the kind of biased, ill informed post that makes me mad. "He is abusing her, manipulating her and controlling her". No caveats, no qualifications. Just issued as a bald statement of truth from the seer of relationships. Then you decide to have a random ad hominem attack on me, when you know nothing about me or my views.

And, I have no interest in defending my post. I have stated my view (although it was hardly a strong view anyway, just an urge to the OP to make up her own mind) and unless the OP engages with me, I am signing off this thread.

Whatisnormality, best of luck, whatever you decide.

larry have a

That is the kind of biased, ill informed post that makes me mad. "He is abusing her, manipulating her and controlling her". No caveats, no qualifications.

Theres nothing ill informed about it , the behaviours the op describes are abusive .

larrygrylls - you're very lucky not to have been in the kind of relationship that whatis finds herself in. It is abusive, it is manipulative and it is most definitely controlling. Do they both have "issues"?? Most definitely, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the op is unhappy.

I knew my xh was physically abusive, but it was a book that made me realise all the other crapy, and a book that made me leave him. Not that much different from an internet forum really......

Well ok then, we've had one vote, out of 400 or so, in favour of not necessarily leaving (and with which I disagree). But even he says the relationship has many problems and the sex life is far from normal, so... that aspect, at least, is still unanimous!

I think the trouble with saying "talk to your REAL friends" (not those mean old imaginary internet ladies), is that she might not want to talk to people she sees everyday in the kind of detail and with the frankness she has shown here. If her RL friends don't know about the kind of sexual behaviour, nitpicking, cruelty etc etc that she has told us about here, they are not in a better position to give advice - they are in a worse one in many ways.

larrygrylls I think you're being a bit obtuse here. Maybe take the time to read the thread in full and then re-visit your opinion.

WIN - can't add much to the excellent advice, support and insight you've already received .... but your thread is one of the most chilling I've ever read on this forum. It's been on my mind all weekend, and so much of what you've written has actually made me feel physically sick as I've read it - the sheer cruelty, the dehumanising sex, the control, the animal cruelty (this doesn't, by definition, have to involve hitting as someone suggested ).

Please, please if you're unable to make the break, right now, on your own, will you at least make that appointment with a counsellor as a matter of urgency, and/or call Women's Aid to discuss this with them, and/or confide in your brother so someone in your real day to day life becomes party to how you really live (exist). Maybe then, seeing your brother's concern and shock, you will start to acceot how incredibly wrong and twisted this is.

If you do nothing else, for God's sake, never have children with this monster - for that is what he is, what he does is what monsters do, the very occasional act of "kindness" does not negate all the rest of it - and, although I know you will find this prospect upsetting, please do the right thing for your cat and return it to the rescue home. Your husband need never know, it could have "run away" .... but I can assure you that animal shelters would NEVER knowingly rehome an animal with someone who'd taunt and distress it, particularly when it had been previously absued.

Then there's you ..... for goodness sake woman, you deserve so much more than this. NO-ONE deserves this .... there is a whole world out there with myriad opportunities of all sorts, where you could have a life - with or without a partner - where you were valued and respected, where you don't need to walk on eggshells, where you don't feel obliged to perpetually appease this shit while you are crying (literally, or internally), where you don't need to be regularly humiliated and belittled.

I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that were you ever to reveal where you live - generally, doesn't have to be very specific - there would be an army of women here only too delighted to step up and help you leave and live without him .... from practical help, to emotional support, or simply taking you out for coffee etc so you get back into the swing of doing simple normal things.

This is so so dreadful - you don't have to have any sort of psychiatry qualification to see that.

Larry (and others of a similar mindset) - When a person is very unhappy about things his/her partner does & says to them, and has shown them it makes them unhappy, and the partner doesn't stop making them unhappy - the partner is a bully. Bullying is abuse. That's not an emotional statement, it's a dictionary definition.

When someone deliberately restricts another's freedom of association (friends & family), freedom of movement and/or financial freedom, that is an abuse of the victim's human rights - again, not an emotional statement but a legal fact.

To a cat, a hiss is an instinctively threatening sound. Hissing and staring at cats are bullying behaviours, intended to intimidate the animal. Why would you want to intimidate your pet?

Nobody's jumping to any facetious conclusions.

"I think the trouble with saying "talk to your REAL friends" (not those mean old imaginary internet ladies), is that she might not want to talk to people she sees everyday in the kind of detail and with the frankness she has shown here. If her RL friends don't know about the kind of sexual behaviour, nitpicking, cruelty etc etc that she has told us about here, they are not in a better position to give advice - they are in a worse one in many ways."

Exactly!! Even now, 9 years later on, I can't tell you how down right stupid I feel for putting up with this kind of behaviour for 15 years!!

I didn't tell a soul what was going on. Some people saw the odd incident or heard the arguements, but I never told a single person the extent of what was happening until I went to a counsellor on my own.

Many of these men isolate you from your family and friends, that certainly happened to me. Or their so charming and personable in public, that you feel no one would ever believe you.

So sorry for what you went though, harrassedinherpants. Until I started using MN, I had no idea just how widespread this kind of behaviour was, or how predictably and similarly these people behave. Now I think of all the women who I have seen on here who are trapped, more or less, and extrapolate that out to the general population. There must be thousands or tens of thousands of women out there living in fear like this. I just want to get a big rescue van fitted out and make it the fifth emergency service. :(

Lary's advice also assumes the OP is silly enough to make a decision regarding her life based upon anonymous advice.

The advice on mumsnet will simply be adding to all the little voices in her own head and the voices of her close friend and brother.

Thanks to mumsnet there is now a very loud chorus ringing in her ears which she cannot ignore.

Catsmother - I love the image of hundreds of women marching to the OP's flat and challenging the horrible husband.

I too have been quite disturbed by the OP's story, she is very much in my thoughts.

OP: this thread is very chilling and has obviously disturbed a lot of people. Why? Because it is disturbing: this man is sick and you need to get out. Lots of other people have given you their experiences, but can I give you one bit of advice from mine: move out yourself if you can. My ex 'agreed' to move, but then stayed for months, claiming that he couldn't find somehwere he could afford. It was one of the worst periods of my life. I couldn't move because the flat belonged to my company but he kept saying 'why should I have to go?'. He cried, told me it was all my fault for being so cruel, huffed about with boxes and so on while I had friends and colleagues in the house, spread himself all over the place. It was passive aggressive and it was corrosive. He finally went when, with the help of a friend, I wrote him a letter threatening to change the locks and get the police in if he didn't go. He finally went and I began to live. You must too.

This truly is the saddest, most desperate thread I have ever read and I feel so, so sorry for the OP.
I think the positive comments about using an interent forum for advice are valid, sometimes friends and family are too close to home, they cannot discuss the matter objectively.
When I look at my own family background I am amazed I have the healthy relatinship I do. Ok, DH has his faults, but so do I, and nothing we can't talk through and attempt to resolve. To be honest, I feel the legacy of my family's dysfunction was expressed through me- I have a compulsive nature which needs working on even now. And that caused its own issues which i have had to admit to and resolve.
OP- your father and your 'D'H sound like my father, who was a narcissistic alcoholic who spent his life belittling mainly my mother, who always believed that it was her 'duty' to accept his torments. She met him at 16, shortly after the death of her own father and it was only my father's death that released her to be her own person.
A really telling factor was my mother telling me that, throughout her marriage, she had a recurrent dream that she lived in a beautiful house, but every time she tried to access the rooms upstairs she found them to be locked. these dreams died with my father. And now she has the freedom to be who she wants to be without justifying her own actions for the sake of 'quiet life'.
My mother gave up 40 years of her life, don't be the same, and don't risk having children to pass on this cruel legacy to.
have you considered seeking out an Al-Anon or Adult Chidren of Alcoholics group, it may help you understand your motivations for your choices and behaviour. At the very least, you'll find a group of people who understand where you come from.
I wish I could be more help and wish you the best in your decisions. You've come further than you know already in your realisation that you deserve better.

Larry - fair enough you think we are not able to judge by only hearing one side of the story, you are entitled to your opinion.

But would you not agree that you are in even less of a position to judge given that you haven't even bothered to read the entire thread?

Asouthwolddummy,

I am reluctant to keep posting as this thread is not about me and my "opinion", that is why I have not responded for a couple of hours.

The thing is that, if you read my post, I am not making any judgement, merely arguing that the OP should follow her own mind and confide in her friends. I am in no sense urging her to stay with her partner or making a judgement about whether he is "abusive" or not.

ElephantsAndMiasma - thank you! I actually don't regret it, only that I didn't get out sooner. I have to gorgeous ds's with xh and I couldn't be without them. I also really appreciate what a wonderful and loving dh I have now, and my dd is my ptb (perfect 3rd born lol). I actually pretty darned happy tbh !!

'I am reluctant to keep posting as this thread is not about me and my "opinion", that is why I have not responded for a couple of hours."

And yet you continue to do so.

Op needs to get out of this damaging and one sided relationship, for her own safety and for that of her poor cat.

He sounds like a complete psychopath.

whatis, I have been following this thread with concerned interest. 5 years ago I separated from my ex after putting up with his destructive cycles of behaviour for too long. You've already received some fantastic advice but I'd like to echo the voices saying that you need to stay strong now. You've started to see the light and need to carry on moving forward with the help of family (your brother) and friends. I was amazed by how many of my family members/friends revealed that they didn't like my ex after I confided in them. They were very patient too, I fell for the crying/doe eyes/letters/poems etc three times before finally making the break. Not surprising in retrospect, my self-esteem was so eroded. Be kind to yourself, you'll get there - you've already broken the spell so have done the hard bit.

Secondly, my ex took months to leave after initially agreeing to move out. He took to the attic room and stayed in bed for hours at a time (I'm fascinated by the 'napping' point made by a couple of other posters...)and I was reluctant to make the move as I'd paid the deposit on the house. He only went when I lied and told him that I'd handed notice in on the house (rented) and that he'd need to take it up with the landlord and pay the deposit if he wanted to stay. I gave him a date and started packing up my things, pretending to be leaving too. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have cut my losses and gone much earlier. If I'd have left with a plastic bag with a couple of pairs of pants in it I'd have been up on the deal.

On a positive note, I rarely think about him now. Like another poster, I'm now nearly 38 and in a very happy and healthy relationship. I'm also expecting my first child at the start of December. It can be done. stay strong

Larry - You've admitted yourself that you haven't read the whole thread. I suggest you do, at least all the responses from the OP.

I, like you, think the term 'abuse' is often bandied about too much on MN. However, this is a case where I think it is abuse.

If you read the whole thread and maintain your stance then fair enough.