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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this a normal sex life???

807 replies

whatisnormality · 17/09/2010 21:37

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

  • Always initiated by me
  • 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
  • Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
  • Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

OP posts:
perfumedlife · 19/09/2010 18:12

I do know where you are coming from dittany, it's just that they are both much older now. It seems that the op should have some life experience by now, although granted she has had a major number worked on her.

The age thing is part of it, but it could have been the same without the age difference here I think.

camdancer · 19/09/2010 18:16

Ok, I NEVER post on relationships but need to now. Please don't turn into your Mum. You said your Mum was this fantastic person before your Dad got to her, well please, please leave before the same happens to you. You DO NOT want to end up a shell. Sorry if this sounds harsh but reading your posts it sounds like it is already happening.

whatisnormality · 19/09/2010 18:21

I think the thing I'm struggling with is that until this weekend I genuinely thought we had a reasonably normal relationship and to say that this thread has opened my eyes is an understatement.

I keep thinking of other things too numberous to list and actually realise that the early years that I have remembered with such fond memories were all a farce as I just keep thinking of other examples that actually are of him just being awful in various different ways.

I'm sorry to be such a drip - it's just been such an interesting weekend and I need time to digest and consider all the comments and threads that people have been so kind to post to a stranger.

I'm going to speak to my friend tomorrow- she often says that I can stay at her house if I need to (perhaps she realises things are worse than I let on)

Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart for all of your advice and support. I've got to go as he's coming home so will update you all either tomorrow or Tuesday (I might not be able to get on the computer tomorrow depending when he goes to bed)

Thank you again and please don't feel that any of your advise has been wasted - it's just been an awful lot to take on board and I have been so blind and stupid for so many years.

x

OP posts:
WriterofDreams · 19/09/2010 18:23

How can your husband possibly think your sex life is normal?? When you present concerns to your husband he should listen, even if he doesn't agree, and attempt to discuss them with you, not dismiss them out of hand as your husband has done. I simply could not put up with being treated the way your husband treats you - I would just feel so angry and dejected all the time.

Also, if you know what his game is when you try to break up with him then that should help you to resist it. Yes it will be hard when you break up with him but you need to stay strong with the help of others and not allow him to suck you back in.

bottyburpthebarbarian · 19/09/2010 18:35

Please leave.

As soon as you can.

Please please please do not stay and put up with this any longer.

CAT me if you like - I don't want to say too much on here in case I get outed but if you want to talk I'm here

Scorpette · 19/09/2010 18:36

Another epic from me, sorry.

Whatis, so I was right when I predicted that your parents had weak, abusive sexual boundaries when you were a child and that your FIL bullies your MIL who is a timid shadow of a woman. That gives me no pleasure, but can you not see the pattern that I and everyone else is trying to get across to you? It's like these bastards get a text book when they enter puberty. These men are sociopaths; like sharks, they swim through life with the sole intention of finding prey and when they spot the right catch, they move in with cold, unblinking eyes. They are deeply damaged and look for someone with low self-esteem and some level of damage who is used to being told they are rubbish and treated badly and who is desperate to please and to get someone who treats them badly to love them.

I had - have - great parents, but I was bullied badly all throughout my school life and my emotionally abusive Ex knew this, as we were in the same classes at school (although the relationship started when we were 26), so I readily believed that I was intrinsically flawed and bad and I just wanted people to like me. Luckily, because the damage of the bullying wasn't as bad as experiencing a terrible childhood at home, I could break free (also my parents were very supportive and urged me to get out). But you, you had an abusive childhood, where abnormal sexual expression was the norm and all you wanted was to please and be loved. Him making you have sex outside, etc., despite not wanting to, when you first got together was just him testing how compliant you were, how readily you would demean yourself to please him, how easily you would subsume your own needs to fulfil his. Having seen you were his perfect victim, he was not going to get rid of you - THAT is the reason why he says things like "It's the best relationship he's ever been in". Of course it is! He'd have a hard time finding someone who'd let themselves be treated the way you are and put up with his horrible, abusive, freaky ways.

Reread what you wrote:

"My mother is lovely when she's sober and she has changed through living with my father for so many years - he has eroded the person she is however at heart she is kind and loving and i resent my father for ruining much of her life. He is really not nice in any way and mostly I loathe him however again, occassionally he offers glimmers of being loving and I cling on to them and hope that he's changing and perhaps he does care about me and then am devastated when he reverts to his usual behaviour."

WHO does this remind you of? Your DH has eroded who you were and are (although your whole life has been under the control of abusers, so perhaps you don't even know who you truly are yet). HE is really not nice in anyway but offers glimmers of being loving and YOU cling to them and hope he's changing and does care about you.

Sweetheart, you can't make Daddy love you and you can't make this monster love you either. It's not because you're unlovable - far from it, as this thread attests to - but because they are bad, damaged, self-obsessed bastards. Surely you can see this? Surely you can see that you chose a Daddy substitute? You will never, ever get what you needed from Daddy from this man. Time to stop wanting Daddy or a Daddy substitute to love you. It's a cliche but a true one: no-one will love you until you love yourself. You cannot get what you want and need from an outside source. Learn how to give it to your self.

And finally, and chillingly:

"My dh has never raped me as I've always been agreeable to things (ie I might be crying but I would never say anything and he doesn't notice the tears - it's just because I feel so removed from the situation if that makes sense?)".

I'm sorry, but this sounds like rape to me. You might have agreed, but you do not understand safe, healthy, normal sexual boundaries and requests and you don't know how to assert your own needs and likes/dislikes, just how to desperately try to please others so they won't abandon you or stop loving you. You can't give proper consent because you've never been allowed to have enough sense of self to be able to understand the concept. And please, do NOT kid yourself that he doesn't notice the tears - how can anyone not notice crying in a private, intimate situation? No real, decent man could even get an erection if he thought his partner didn't want to do something or enjoyed it, never mind if she was crying! It would not surprise me in the slightest if the tears just turned him on further.

And we all know why he put your dress over your face when filming you - 1) to dehumanise you. You are less than nothing to you. 2) When he watches it back, he only wants to be able to see the one person who exists and matters in his world - himself. 3) He possibly doesn't want to be confronted by being able to see you weren't happy.

This man is sick. 33 yr olds don't usually want a teen girlfriend unless they want to control her (and have slightly dodgy tastes regarding age). And I say that as someone 9 yrs older than her DP. Please, PLEASE read and digest what we are all saying. There is not a single person reading this who thinks your relationship is normal, that ANYTHING he does or says is acceptable and above all, there's not a single person who thinks you should stay.

PS If and when you do leave, for God's sake, destroy that sex tape.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 19/09/2010 18:52

You're not a drip, you're not blind and you're not stupid. Totally the opposite.

You've been put down all your life, but you still have the spirit to stop cooking his dinner after 15 years.

You've been told you're worthless all your life, but you can still see that you deserve better.

You've been treated as subhuman all your life, but you're smart enough to seek help and take it where you find it.

Don't see anything drippy, blind or stupid there.

Good luck talking to your friend tomorrow. I'm sure she knows more than you think.

You'll be in my thoughts, and I'm sure the thoughts of many others on here. Just think of the two futures you could have, the sad one and the free one. Best of luck x

asouthwoldmummy · 19/09/2010 19:05

Dittany - if I offended you in any way I am truly sorry. There is never any excuse for a woman to feel she deserves this abusive behaviour, and I would never tell someone who had been abused that it didn't actually happen?!

Whatis - good luck talking to your friend tomorrow. I'm sure I along with everyone else here truly hopes you choose to finally have the future you deserve.

Allora · 19/09/2010 19:09

My God this thread has opened up MY eyes so much and I came on originally to try and help.My head is spinning with realisations like the end of Usual Suspects and i have had nothing like the awful life of the OP. Thanks to everyone who has posted such intelligent and thoughtful advice. That co-dependency list stopped me in my tracks. I am much better now but, ouch...

whatis you have made huge steps already these past 48 hours. It must all feel so overwhelming right now but please keep moving forwards, even when it feels like your trying to swim through treacle.

CarGirl · 19/09/2010 19:22

My first husband was 13 years older than me and he was NOTHING like this, he was lovely and it's very sad that we decided to end our marriage - also I was 22 when I met him, had been to uni, lived abroad, had some other relationships etc etc etc So I'm not biased about large age gaps etc but all the ones similar to yours - girl still in teens, man around 30 the bloke has turned out to be abusive and told for years that their relationship is normal including "every husband hits his wife" Angry

dittany · 19/09/2010 19:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 19/09/2010 19:32

He sounds like what I like to call a kitten rescuer. He picked you up when you were a vulnerable "kitten stuck in a tree" and offered love, stability, a family. Maybe his intentions were genuinely good. But the problem is he still sees you as that little helpless kitten, and he will never see you as anything else, because he likes it that way. He's not seeing you for who you really are, he needs you to be dependent on him. What you don't realise right now is that however stuck you were in that tree, you would have got down by yourself, and you still can. You don't need him. You will be fine by yourself. (Although watch out for any more kitten rescuers who come along!)

What you say about his reaction if he found this thread is interesting. I had a very similar thing with XP. If I ever had a slight moan or gripe about him to anybody - as they did to me about their husbands, or mothers, or sisters, etc etc, and he found out he'd be incensed. He did not like me ever to say the slightest bad thing about him, maybe because he was terrified that everyone would find out how horrible he was to me? His "reasoning" was that if I said something bad about him it gave a bad impression. He didn't get at all that it's normal to be irritated or fed up with your partner sometimes, and it's normal to have a moan to your friends about it, they know you don't mean it, and they'll make you cups of tea and say "Tch! Men!" and everyone will move on. Nobody would think he was a monster if I moaned that he had got crumbs in the bed. But he seemed to think that they would! I think it was a guilty conscience. They are worried you'll tell everyone what they are really like. Which means they KNOW what they are doing is wrong. So why do they do it? When they are supposed to care about you?

I too don't think the age difference should be dismissed, especially the way he told you that you were "mature" - now this is completely out of thin air but I would be willing to bet a lot that this is a common technique in abusive men who go for younger women. Get them in their late teens (so it's acceptable/legal) then tell them they are "mature" so that they move away from all their friends (who are suddenly deemed "immature") and also want to abandon "childish" things like education, university plans, etc, and want to do "mature" things like moving in, getting married, having babies. Bingo. Trapped, and he's scored himself a "good little wife" to boot, you having never known anything else, never having lived alone or with a larger group of people to experience the freedom which comes with that/the experience of a shared responsibility towards cleaning etc. Also if you have never lived alone the thought of doing so if you left him is even more daunting. I'm NOT saying you were stupid or naive to fall for this BTW. It is a horrible, manipulative plan and there are not very many young girls (ESPECIALLY those who have grown up in unhappy homes) who would see this for what it is.

FWIW my mum was not much help when I asked her advice for the majority of the relationship, she kept giving me coping strategies or advice to try and change him, which made me feel that she wanted me to stay and put more effort in etc, but the minute I said I wanted to leave she was running around doing everything she could to help.

P.S. to the person who asked about the naps, it's not necessarily a warning sign in itself, it's the fact that it's in with all the other odd behaviours, it's just another weird similarity between people who have NPD.

BertieBotts · 19/09/2010 19:37

And forgot to add that even though it seems daunting, living alone is great! It must be much easier to live alone at 33 than it would be to move out of home on your own at 18. And TBH with this kind of partner it's easier to live alone because you can sort everything out without their interference and criticism all the time.

ledkr · 19/09/2010 19:45

dittany makes perfect sense.as ever. please listen.

I shed a little tear or two at your comment that he doesnt see your tears and my-far from perfect- dh looked at me 5 mins later and said "have you been crying love?"

That says it all.

merrywidow · 19/09/2010 20:22

This sounds like Stockholm Syndrome; you hate it so much you have told yourself there is a good reason to be with this man, you have fooled yourself into falling in love with him.

please, please leave

harecare · 19/09/2010 20:32

Jumping ahead to the happy ending...

Just a thought: you've pictured in your head telling him you're leaving and then you give in when he cries.
I know why you would do this, it would be the only time he shows any sort of love to you (I wonder how he treats your cat?), but that doesn't mean your relationship will change in any way so you can't give in.
But maybe when you do leave him, as I'm pretty sure you will after disclosing to your friend and brother, seeking some counselling help etc, couldn't you just write him a note?

You're already starting to see him for what he is and whether he loves you or not will be irrelevant, when you have realised that you don't love him, need him or want him in any way. You are going to be one very happy divorcee, I am already picturing you beaming with happiness and dancing for joy when the decree absolute arrives.

kittywise · 19/09/2010 20:48

Remember though this a HUGE amount of stuff to take in, simply huge. Be gentle on yourself. Take baby steps. Build up your courage and confidence.
It's never as simple of 'just leaving' not when the horror of it all s just starting to dawn on you.
Spend some time now just taking stock and you might spend quite a while doing this. There is no deadline here.
Go easy on yourself xx

youngblowfish · 19/09/2010 20:57

Above all, keep safe. He was violent once already, when he realises that you are leaving for good, he will be dangerous. Please, keep safe. Thinking of you very warmly, sweetheart.

Ineedmorechocolatenow · 19/09/2010 21:06

I second that you need to keep safe and that you need to delete your browser history..... Take care Smile

Aminata100 · 19/09/2010 21:26

"I'm walking away without giving it a real chance?"

After 11 years?!! or more if you met him at 18 and now are 33 - OMG!

Please wake up and love yourself, no-one can do that for you, not your husband, not your father, you are only repeating the pattern that you were taught "I am not worthy", which is absolute crapola!!

Of course you are worthy! You are such an amazing, lovely and strong woman to have had to deal with such a shite deal in life and still be sane! I take my hat off to you, quite frankly

Please find a good therapist to give you an objective view, you SO deserve it!

The best and most loving thing you can do for yourself is to prove to them they cannot use you for their own sickness and try and destroy you!

Put on Gloria Gaynor's "I will survive"!! it's a great song to listen (and dance round the living room!) to :o

QS · 19/09/2010 21:29

Whatis

I have picked up on a few things you have said.
You say:

"His mother isn't even remotely controlling actually, she's a mouse of a woman who is permanently bossed around by her husband who finds other people's reactions to this amusing."

The history repeats itself. He is abusive like his father, and although his MUM is not controlling, her husband is. Like father like son? This is normal for your husband, he has grown up in a similar set up. He does not KNOW any better. So he wont change. Not all children of abusive parents end up the same way. Some actually see that the relationship of their parents are wrong, and they do all they can to not fall into the same pattern. As adults, we have a choice. We can chose to be nice and loving, or we can choose to be utter bastards. In most cases, being an utter bastard means that your partner leaves. But your husband chose you with great care and consideration. A naive, young woman, in a family background quite similar to his own. Abusive father, subordinate mum. You wouldnt question him? You would not question the situation? Not until now. Your husband is controlling, abusive and most of all calculating. He has moulded and trained you for years.

You say:
"My mother always supports my father but as me husband quite rightly says, she needs to live with him so cannot cause a situation that would be unbearable."

He is here telling here what you should do in your own marriage. Is it a masked threat? Unless you do as your husband expect of you, he will create a situation which will be unbearable for you? He is giving you the recipe here!

But isnt it already unbearable? Despite you cuddling him, servicing him, massaging him and his ego, rewarding abuse with hand massages because you did not like the atmosphere when he criticised the breakfast you prepared? It is not working, is it? The more you comply, the more submissive you are, the worse he gets.

You say

"He has always said that he would never leave and if someone is going to leave it would have to be me. "
Again, he is giving you the recipe.
He is not going to change. He is not going to leave. It is up to you to accept the relationship the way it is. If you dont like it, leave. "I wont change, I wont leave." this is the message he is giving you YOU are responsible for your life and your happyness.

And:

IseeGraceAhead Sun 19-Sep-10 14:22:39
" he said that if his father ever spoke to him like that he'd walk away and not return.... "
He's telling you what he thinks you should do to him! More than that - he's saying he despises you because you haven't.

I agree with this.

And I think you have to leave, because this man does not love you. He loves himself.
He is a nasty, controlling abusive bastard.

I hope you do find courage to leave.

Aminata100 · 19/09/2010 21:45

Of course he's not going to leave! He's got you where he wants you, and is expecting you to take care of him (his perverted needs) for the rest of his life!

What's loving (towards you) about that?

Please don't fall for it, you will only drag yourself down, you only have to look at your mum and your MIL to see your own future if you don't get out :(

nomorelostweekends · 19/09/2010 21:54

I clicked on your thread right at the beginning, but I didn't think to answer because i couldn't quite believe it was true.

I am not normally naive, honestly. Have been round the block a bit!

I know it is true now. This man is cruel and damaging, he does not love you. He loves the situation, the power, the control.

You sound ace, fab, you deserve so much more.

I am sorry life has dealt you this much so far. If you leave him, the possibilities for your future are endless. Contentment, happiness, adventure - whatever you want. If you stay, it will only be more of the same. He really will not change Sad

I will be thinking of you in the coming days, as i know many on here will. Keep posting, and keep strong.

ParanoidAtAllTimes · 19/09/2010 22:11

Hi Whatis, just checking in as have been away. Loads of great advice on this thread. The more you write about him, the more sad and worried I am for you. I understand that you need some time to get your head around this as you've had so many huge revelations in such a short time but please talk to your friend tomorrow and let us know how it goes.

BeccaandEvie · 19/09/2010 22:21

This thread is just so sad, I can't believe OP has put up with this for so long. You deserve better, to be treated better and sexually 'what's normal for some isn't for others' but really him being so selfish to that extent isn't normal. He's definately emotionally abusive to you even if he's never hit you.

I was in a relationship where emotional and phiysical abuse occured. After 2 years I left, best thing I ever did. Your friends will help you, but you really need to take that first big/difficult step, it will be the best thing for you in the end even if its completely scary now.

Good luck...

X