Is this a normal sex life???

[whatisnormality]

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

• Always initiated by me
• 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
• Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
• Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

I don't think you do love him, I think you are portraying your desperate need for approval from your father onto him. So on the rare occasion he is kind to you it satisfies your absolutely desperate need to be approved by a distant abusive Dad

I am only theorising, of course I don't know but you need to address why you "love" someone who constantly puts you down, puts you last and clearly doesn't love you and just wants to control you.

If you want to be really happy you need to break free from your dependancy of being in an abusive marriage.

But, he doesn't look into your beautiful eyes and stop hurting you. Love isn't about sacrificing yourself to someone else, in the hope that they will cast a glance your way, or just stop being a bastard for 5 minutes. But if that's what love is to you, then surely you can see that he doesn't love you by this definition?

Your father has built this life for you, as surely as if he had written a script for you. If you were (by some miracle) able to have kids with this man, you would be setting up your baby daughter to live the same life of pain and humiliation and low self-esteem that you live.

Did you have a read of the MollFlounders threads I linked? They are worth it honestly.

I have recently started to question a few things about our relationship and when we argued the other day I said that I was a child when we met and he's always argued that I was very mature etc however I really wasn't. I was young and naive and rather stupid.

The other thing that I've questioned is that I have always followed his opinion about someone to some extent. For example if he thinks someone treats me like x and they're not really my friend, I have cut contact with x. There is something wrong with all my friends and my brother (although he can't say anything about the way they treat me so i just let his critism of them wash over me). For example one of my friends he sneers at because he says she's fat and unattractive, another he says is simple (despite being far from that), another is too complex....... That said though I often don't like my friends partners so maybe you do find bad points in those close to the people you love because you want to protect them?

Sorry just writing as I think

The responses to your thread must seem overwhelming, but so many people post here precisely because they find your story very compelling. It is heartbreaking to see someone as bright, articulate and honest as you trapped in an abusive relationship. I have to say, I am so pleased you are not seeing your parents today. That is a huge step forward! You will feel so much better for limiting your father's poisonous influence. I know I did.

With regards to other relationships you are describing... Normal, loving relationships do not deteriorate over time! You mention that your friend does not understand your position because she has only been with somebody for 5 years and things are different for you and your husband. They are different because he is a controlling abuser. Whether you are together for a week or 40 years, the only acceptable level of abuse is none. What you are experiencing is not normal.

As for your PILs, do you really think 'there are relationships where being told what to do can work' or is that your husband trying to normalise abusing behaviour? I like feeling useful as well, but never in an environment where somebody orders me around for the thrill they get from controlling another human being. They sound absolutely horrific.

Ask your friend not to tell you what works and what does not work in your relationship. If possible, ask her to just listen to you. You will be ready to take on advice in the future, for now why don't you just honestly share in RL the stuff you have been living with for so long?

I'm out, I'm sorry. I don't think that anybody can logically convince you of anything, so I'm not going to keep badgering you.

I sincerely hope that you find some clarity over time, and get the strength to leave so you can be happy. I really wish you all the best for your future and hopefully you will get some real life support from your brother as well as from the wonderful, patient and wise MNers on this thread who have offered such great advice from their own experiences.

Good luck.

Of course he will want to control the people you see and keep in touch with. Textbook controlling behaviour.

Funny how he is happy for you to keep seeing your abusive father, yet criticises your friends for being 'fat and unattractive'?

this looks like a great resource

Bitoffun - thank you for your contributions. You have made me seriously consider the start of our relationship and you're right. What I considered to be love at first sight with hind sight really wasn't.

I have been reading through the other posts that you, Elephants and others have very kindly posted and really cannot thank everyone enough for all of the insightful comments.

It's really quite difficult looking at a relationship that I've always thought was one where he adored me (I know how utterly stupid that sounds) and I'm realising now that he doesn't and probably hasn't for a while. He'll still tell me he does and text that he does but actions do speak louder than words and the few positive reinforments he gives are not enought. If I'm honest it's probably because in public he always looks so proud and happy to be with me and other people always comment on how much he loves me and puts me on a pedalstall - I guess it's just nice to feel cherished even if it's a false air when other people are there.

Oh love, the only reason for putting someone on a pedestal is so that no-one else can reach them.

I feel so sad for you that you would still give him a massage after being spoken to like that. I don't know how you can touch him when he hurts you so much.

There are so many wise words already posted on here by people who know what they're talking about regarding abusive relationships. You're getting some great advice, and it's not often so many people agree so strongly about a situation.

Well done for not giving him a round of applause for reheating those waffle, BTW.

OMG poor you! my ex never used to initiate sex, and if I did he said I was 'sex-obsessed' and that it made him feel 'pressured'. We only had sex when we/he was drunk. Made me feel like an ugly whore. Get out of this situation- this will inevitably be affecting other areas of your life, and it's not worth it.

Hi Whatis - can I suggest that you have a look at this list of behaviour patterns from co-dependents anonymous and see if might reflect some of your behaviour with regards to your parents and husband (it's unlikely to all be relevant but some might)? Very sorry to hear about your parents torturing you with listening to their sex sessions. That is abuse and very very wrong.

Denial Patterns:

* I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
* I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
* I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others. 

Low Self-Esteem Patterns:

* I have difficulty making decisions.
* I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never 'good enough'.
* I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
* I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
* I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behaviour over my own.
* I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person. 

Compliance Patterns:

* I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
* I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
* I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
* I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
* I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
* I accept sex when I want love. 

Control Patterns:

* I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
* I attempt to convince others of what they 'should' think and how they 'truly' feel.
* I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
* I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
* I lavish gifts and favours on those I care about.
* I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
* I have to be 'needed' in order to have a relationship with others.

Great post Eurostar - I would heartily second that advice!

Coincidentally this time last weekend I was reading through that very list and writing down which applied to me in my past relationship, because I was feeling that in my head at least, I was still trapped in that co-dependence (or symbiotic relationship).

whatis I hope it helps to know that there are people like me who have been in very similar relationships but who have managed to work their way through the issues (and still are)

so I went to see my counseller during the week and bought a book to read about it. This week has been hard work - working hard on myself - but it is so worth it to feel calmer and happier and get rid of the panics!

Thank you Euro - rather scary how many of those boxes I tick. I've always realised that my childhood was a little messed up and see my dh as almost my saviour as he allowed me to escape and be happy (which I was for a short period of time)

Hairy, it is fantastic that you are working through the issues, I would love to work on feeling calmer and happier as opposed to permanently down. You are inspirational as by your posts you sound so happy and carefree?

ps also love the name!

hi, whatis I still go through my panics and down days and if I am honest, to some extent, I still drag myself into the 'co-dependence' thing - worrying about him as he made me feel like I have 'abandoned' him, when what I have done is freed myself.

On the wholel though, hard as it has been, I am so very, very much happier and do not regret leaving. I got to the point of realising I could not live like that for the next 30 or 40 years.

Don't ever forget you are strong - you have lived through some very difficult times, you are so strong and you will break free from this when you are ready!

It is a hard list to look at whatis as it does go to the core of who we are. Myself, I've diverted my "rescuer" tendencies to volunteer visiting of old people's homes and such like where there are strict boundaries over how involved I can get. I stop myself everytime I try to take the "rescuer" role in my personal life. I'm a lot older than you whatis and it's a long, slow road, but you still have at least half, maybe two thirds of your life to go and all that you've learned so far and your wish to make someone happy can be harnessed for the good. It's doubtful your DH will change at his age but he actually can't change unless he is willing to work on himself. It's time for you to look out for yourself and to give your goodness to those who can make better use of it.

+...oh yes...have to admit...too often the tendencies find me on here doling out opinions when I meant to log on to check out a recipe or suchlike...still a great leap forward from where I was before though!

Hi Hairy - that's exactly what he's done the previous times I've left... It's the best relationship he's ever been in, He really, really loves me, marriage is for life and he thought when we got married that would be forever and when that doesn't seem to be working it's that he's not good enough for me, I'm too good for him.... We have been on the point of break up so many times but never actually do and I always end up almost clinging to him (literally)

I do want to be happy and at the moment I'm so miserable I'm dissapointed when I wake up in the morning. I really do want change and perhaps this is the first step in doing this.

I definitely need a councellor as I have quite a few issues and it would be so nice to escape the permanent feeling of being trapped and miserable.

Euro, I have started doing some charity work recently and am looking at starting a business that helps people so maybe I do need to divert those tendancies and start living without resentment and the feeling that I owe people something.

I've just spent ages reading the whole of this thread and the thing that stands out most to me Whatis is that you clearly have never experienced a truly kind, loving relationship. There is no way on earth my DH would criticise me in the way your husband did when you were making breakfast, and if he tried he wouldn't get very far. If you cook for someone else they should appreciate it, not find fault with everything. Just reading about how your husband acts gave me a headache, I really don't know how you put up with it. You're so used to being criticised and put down that you probably do it in your own head, so that when others do it it just confirms how you feel about yourself.

You seem to feel that being in this relationship is better than being alone, but I don't see how that's true. What are you actually getting out of it? Remember that you are not responsible for your husband's happiness. You seem to feel it's your job to "make him happy" and you go out of your way to do it, but happiness should be mutual in a relationship - you should equally get pleasure out of being together.

What would happen if you suddenly stood up to him? If you said, stop criticising me, or no I won't be ready in 5 minutes?

Thanks dittany - I have a beautiful cat who I adore and he does make everything seem better.

My dh has never raped me as I've always been agreeable to things (ie I might be crying but I would never say anything and he doesn't notice the tears - it's just because I feel so removed from the situation if that makes sense?) and certainly recently have always instigated things (please don't ask me why, just desparately yearning for a fufilling relationship)

it's interesting that you say you were targeted by a man when you were 19 as I do wonder what kind of fully grown man chooses to date somebody who is still in their teens. DH argues that I was particularly mature etc however I wasn't. I was very young, very much in love and completely dependent upon him. For years I saw him almost like a god and I guess that's where the wish to please him comes from.

It's also interesting that you say that your ex only liked young girls as I do wonder if my dh finds me less attractive as I've got older. He prefers me clean shaven and I do wonder if I'm too old for him to find me attractive - but then if that was the case surely he'd leave.

Years ago, he was filming us having sex and he pulled my dress up to cover my face and I have always wondered why he did that - he's never done that again but it still stays with me as an unsual thing to do.

Really good post, dittany.

Far better to have a loyal, sweet, fun, appreciative (if occasionally slightly smelly) companion who will happily curl up next to you on the sofa or play a silly game with you in the park. When was the last time you actually had any fun, OP? All that going out shopping and for dinner (because that's what he likes) obviously isn't your thing, what do you really like doing?

How on earth could a normal person get enjoyment from sex when the other person is totally disengaged? Forgive the comparisons but I know that if I'm not really in the mood for sex it totally puts my DH off and he doesn't really enjoy it. How could he not notice your tears? Does he not kiss you, stroke your face?

Writerofdreams - you're right actually, although I was miserable at home when I was younger, overall I was much happier as I spent a lot of time away with friends and practically lived in other people's houses. The thought of going home to my mother passed out on the toilet and father being vile really wasn't appealing.

The thing with my husband is that he says that I critise him, that nothing he ever does is good enough and when I try and say that it isn't the case, he says that perhaps we should start to record every conversation we have as I always twist things. He also argues that his memory is not as good as mine so I am always able to draw examples whilst he is not.

Having been very conscious of that this weekend, I can honestly say that I have not once critised him nor implied that things aren't good enough and yet I've been told that have loads of times. I've given up trying to talk because we just can't talk, he tells me I'm shouting or should just write down everything that's wrong about him and we end up getting nowhere.

I'm not currently getting much out of the relationship - I don't think either of us is happy but I don't feel able to leave. What if things can get better and I'm walking away without giving it a real chance? I don't know - perhaps life is just too short.

I'm definitely going to find a counsellor from the link someone kindly posted yesterday and go from there.

oh no, whatisnormality. :( :( :(

That is just horrible, could hardly be more disrespectful.

And "he doesn't notice the tears"? That is just bollocks, sorry. Would you notice if he were crying? A normal caring partner notices even if his wife/partner has lost interest or flinched slightly, let alone actual crying.

So many other women on here who have/had abusive partners say the same thing, that their partners were a lot older (12 years seems to be a comonone for some reason), and yet the men used to trot out the "but you're the one with power over me" line as well.