Is this a normal sex life???

[whatisnormality]

My husband and I have just had an argument about our sex life.... again

It has got to the point where we are on the verge of splitting up. He does not see that there is a problem and I feel like I'm going mad so wanted other people's thoughts.

Our sex life:

• Always initiated by me
• 90% of the time it is me pleasuring him with no reciprical action and he 'thanks' me afterwards
• Crunch time came at the weekend when I'd spent 50 minutes on foreplay (on him) and he suggested we go upstairs. Rather than have sex me, he got on all 4's so he could have some bum action?!
• Last night we were cuddling and although I knew he was up for it, as he knew I was upset by the weekend incident I refused to acknowledge it so he asked if (whilst we were cuddling) it was ok if he played with himself as he had a stiffie (I was gagging for it, as always but wanted him to initiate it just for once)

It's been like this for the past 10-11 yrs and we always talk about it and it's always my fault and I just end up mystified. Apparently I don't know what normal is and I patronise him.

He says that everything has to be perfect for me to want to have sex and if I go to bed wearing knickers or pyjamas it means I don't want it (even if I subsequently spend 50 minutes playing with him, I'm clearly not interested)

Is this really remotely normal???

It's not pathetic to want to be loved, it's a basic human need. It can lead to being horribly manipulated if the wrong person senses it in you.

I can't think of much to say that hasn't already been said, but wanted to add my agreement to the posters above.

His constant whinging, attention-seeking, sulking and defensiveness isn't reasonable. It should be possible to have a conversation with both parties being interested in how the other feels, and with both parties listening to the other. It doesn't sound like he's at all concerned about or interested in your perspective. What you think and how you feel should be important to him, should be taken seriously by him. I really can't stress that enough.

I know from experience how after an abusive relationship, there can be this massive fear of not being able to find someone better. It took a lot of work (and to be honest, a couple of relapses, but I hope for you it doesn't come to that) for me to get to the point of having enough self-esteem and self-respect to insist on a healthy and caring attitude from partners.

There are some wonderful people out there, and you deserve to be with one of them. And in the meantime you deserve to be finding happiness in the single life, spending time with friends and properly getting to know yourself again.

WARNING - LONG! Whatisreality, you need to stop making excuses from him to yourself. You say he is shy, gets a lot of headaches, etc. Well, my DP has Social Phobia and gets regular headaches and he treats me like I'm a Queen. Being with him makes me feel better about myself and my life, never worse.

My Ex, however, reminds me of your DH on a much lesser scale, as he used to tut and roll his eyes at totally mundane things I did, like blow my nose or chat briefly with a checkout assistant at the supermarket. He also used to accuse me of having emotions that were totally different from what I was actually feeling - telling me I was being moody and aggressive, when I was actually happy and carefree - or accusing me of acting in ways I wasn't, doing things I wasn't, etc. And all his bad moods and problems were somehow caused by me, even things that had annoyed him at work! He used to make me feel like I was disgusting and repulsed and disappointed him in everything I did, said, wore, etc. His sexual dysfunction was that he never wanted to have sex (although I did discover that he looked at hardcore BDSM online) but if he did, he wanted to only do it in a particular position that he knew I found painful (not a weird one). So I refused. I never believed his crap but it still destroyed my confidence and I still have much lower self-esteem than I used to, so I can totally understand how hard the thought of leaving must be for you. I also understand the need to try to find away to make these sorts of men approve of you and find you attractive, treat you like an equal, truly 'see' and understand you, but believe me - they never will. The problem lies with them. They are broken and deeply damaged and they are transferring all the hatred, disgust and disappointment they feel about themselves onto you. You aren't real, you are something through which they can transfer their demons onto and punish.

It's very, VERY telling that the people who know you best, your brother and your best friend, dislike him and think he is no good for you. They understand. They can see the truth. When people see the truth and tell you it, listen to them.

A huge factor in your prob is the sexual aspect. Now, I'm a live and let live kinda gal and if a couple of any sexual persuasion gets their kicks from bum fun, then good luck to 'em. It's not my bag, but it's none of my business. However, your sex life is not working for the two of you. It seems incredibly dysfunctional. Me and my friends are pretty frank about sex and I have never come across a single woman whose partner or husband asks them to rim them (lick their anus). And certainly not to the extent that you are expected to. Hell, a few of my gay friends hate rimming and being rimmed. I worry that as he is your only sexual partner, you think his requests are pretty standard and they aren't.

A comment you made about your parents struck me - you say that they have sex every day. this worried me for 2 reasons. 1) How do you know this? If they have not adequately tried to hide this from their kids or talk in detail about it, that is having weak sexual boundaries from their children, which some psychologists call the very lowest rungs of abuse. My parents are v open about sex, etc., but I've never heard or seen them (ie barging into their room) doing it and they don't discuss the frequency or anything like that. If this is the case, it will have weakened your sense of sexual boundaries and 'normalcy'. 2) Have you ever considered that your mother might not want sex every day but daren't say no or says yes for an easy life? If this is the case, it could well have conditioned you into unconsciously believing that women are supposed to give into their partner's unreasonable and unappealing sexual demands.

Last question: are his parents still alive? If so, what is the relationship like between his parents? I wouldn't be in the least surprised if you said his father was similar and his mother is a timid mouse of a woman, possibly with depression or other mental health issues.

I know this is a bloody epic, but I am so worried about you and really want you to see that this man is abnormal, totally toxic, deeply troubled - and that you need to leave him. I left my idiot Ex after 7 yrs when I was 33. I met my DP when I was 34 and we are blissfully in love, living together and expecting our first child now (I'm nearly 38). Something or someone better WILL come along... because you cannot do worse than what you've got right now. YOU need to save yourself and be the person you need. You've gone from not-great parents being in control of your life to this bastard being in control. Now's the time to be in control of yourself and your own life. Good luck.

Dignified .... Massive naps ringing bells for me too

" he really isn't a bastard. He's a selfish but caring man "
Whatis, none of what you have described comes across as caring in the slightest. He picks you up (controling you), buys you crisps (when dieting), takes out the rubbish twice in 15 years (lately just cos he's realised you are acting differently, not cos he's spontaneously 'nice'), he belittles you, tuts, critices, has convinced you you are 'annoying' and a bad driver, but this is just his way of subduing you and making you believe you are annoying and useless and therefore lucky to have him when in fact you are not those things and most certainly NOT lucky to have him. He tuts and moans about everybody you pass when out, he controls you financially by encouraging spending so you'll in theory have no money to leave with, not to mention to sex control and affection starvation. You've tried to say a couple of times that you get on well and he's a friend, but other times you say you're usually "miserable with him". He realised when he met you that you were vulnerable and leapt at the chance to reel you in with fake commitment. I bet he has you walking on eggshells around him all the time, wondering whether you're going to do or say something to annoy him. I had that with an ex and it's not normal.
I know you won't leave tomorrow but please do follow all the advice about taking baby steps, reading all the info, counselling etc. Don't see one tiny gesture from him as him suddenly changing his whole life, personality, way of treating you and attitude to your marriage. It will not change.
Good luck, I have been thinking about you a lot and hope you find the courage to give yourself a chance at happiness.

Don't even contemplate whether you'd find a better partner.
No partner at all would be a massive improvement on this

I have little practical advise or experience to offer on this thread. But I couldn't just walk on by without saying something. I can honestly say I have never been so shocked or upset about anything I have read on mumsnet before, and I've read some corkers. Your honesty and decency is shining through this thread, along with your clear vulnerability. This man is a parasite, who has spotted a perfect opportunity, has eaten into your sensitive soul and is set on destroying you. You are a beautiful, intelligent, giving and loving person who is being abused beyond all limits. I understand that it is not so simple to just pack a bag and walk out without a backward glance, but I wish to god that the power of a hundred women (and men) reading your story could give you that strength. You absolutely deserve a loving and warmth relationship. You have a right to be a mother should you wish. 9 out of 10 men are loving and giving and would welcome the chance to make a good woman happy. You have suffered enough - GET OUT OF THERE!!!! I have tears in my eyes for you and I wish I had any sort of faith so I could pray for you. Please seek help as soon as you can. Bless you.

Also, he is controling you in what was supposed to be a nice day out. He suggested a walk you'd like when you had planned to study; and you gave in to him. But then he acted atrociously and for no reason, giving you 5 mins to get into the car. Why do this other than to control you and make you submissive and lose your self-worth and self-esteem?
Can you say, next time he does this, no I am going to study today as planned. Or - ok we'll go for a walk but if he give you a 5 min deadline, just say, Actually I need 15 mins so I'll be there when I'm ready. Have you tried this? What would he do if you did? It is not unreasonable to ask for time to get ready of course so any sulking or anger on his behalf is purely manipulative to make you feel guilty (and then spend hours hovering around him trying to make him feel better - when it should be the other way around).
He has just made me so angry, and I'm so sad for you. I knwo it's hard to see things objectively when you're stuck in the middle of it but I'm glad you started to when on your walk. If you read everything in black and white about what you've said, thinking it applied to something else, then you'd be horrified too and what them to find a better life. And yes this doesn't necesarily mean a new man - not straight away anyway. Your friend and brother will support you when you need it.

Oh - and you give in when looking into his "teary eyes" - oh so manipulative. He has you wrapped around his little finger, and he knows it; knew it from the moment he met you. :(

Have just spent last hour reading all the posts for this thread, husband has been quite worried, never known me so quiet for so long.

My view echoes that of so many other people on here. I have experienced an emotionally abusive relationship,like you I was 18 when we met and he was 7 yrs older. Very controlling, emotionally & mentally abusive but never physical, I began to even doubt my own bloody name when asked. We had a child together and within the 1st 12 mths he began the same behaviour with DS. Cut long story short took a further 18 mths b4 i finally wlaked out, we had nothing but the clothes we were wearing.

Best thing I ever did.

It was hard, I won't kid you on that, but the rewards far outweigh the downsides. I spent 3 yrs living without any partner and having counselling. The best thing I ever did as it gave me so much clarity on who I really was.

I have since found someone else and remarried, it's not always perfect and we have our problems but at least we are both trying our best to solve them, not just one sided effort.

If you can't just walk out, mentally take steps to distance yourself from him, start trying to be a little more independent, even if it only means having a different opinion to him (choose coffee instead of tea) :) anything that will begin the breakaway and I guarentee it will be the best decision you ever make.

I will keep watching your thread and I truly hope and pray that youfind the better life andlove that you deserve.

Massive naps ringing bells for me too

Hairytriangle ( love the name !) its funny how certain things leap out at you isnt it. I bet most of us could accurateley predict what other rotton things he does , its just classic typical abuse isnt it.

My bet its his mum whos a domineering bully.

Scorpette- what a powerful and insightful post.

'bum action' probably refers to penetration. I don't think that's necessarily weird, and not necessarily gay either. One of the sexiest men I've ever known was completely at ease with those desires and didn't consider it gay at all, a bit like a man wearing a pink shirt - sometimes they're so 'manly' that they can carry it off.

On the other hand, I do have a male friend (only a friend) who goes to gay clubs behind his OH's back, and he lies to her rather than tell her the truth. If he is gay or bi-sexual, it's unlikely for him to come out and say it because he probably hasn't admitted it to himself.

To me, the biggest issue is how selfish he's being. He's doing all the taking, and no giving. And when he does give it's with the proviso that he takes at the same time, which means he's not focusing on you the same way you do him. It's just not fair.

TBH I'd withold all attention to him from you. He doesn't deserve it. If he asks say you'll be up for it again when he's realised that the giving and taking needs to be equal. Turn your attention to yourself, get some toys and enjoy yourself for a change.

Normality can I give you a secret un-MN (hug)?

You sound so lonely and I just want to echo everyone else that not all men are like this - in fact, MOST men are NOT like this.

The thought of being on your own is scary but actually I think it's much more lonely to be in your position, trapped almost, because he is so controlling nobody is able to get near you. If you were on your own I can assure you that you will find your friends, family, etc care about you and want to help you. Hey, there are 288 posts on this thread from perfect strangers on the internet and we care, and we have never even met you!

I wouldnt have any sexual contact with him again , under any circumstances. The thanking you afterwards is ,,, creepy and wrong , and i think an attempt to humilate you further . Tell him to fuck off.

I think you should ring womens aid and tell them what youve told us . They have local centres where you can go for free counselling with specialist counselers who know all about this , why they do it , what tactics they use and how to get away. They dont pressure you either.

Be carefull with well meaning freinds , they often dont want to hurt us and dont like seeing us upset so unwittingly say things like " Well everyones got some bad points " , they can often minimise it . Do tell though , just be aware . Something happens when you start to say it out loud and you see peoples horrified reactions , like you have here.

OP, I can only echo what everyone else has said. The fact that you have been surrounded by abusive selfish tossers from birth onwards is NO reflection on you, you sound like a lovely and kind person who - somehow - can still see a glimpse of light throught the wrongness that surrounds you.

You don't need him - you've got a brother and a best friend you can trust, that's something amazing.

TBH I've been out with gay men who are better and kinder in bed that this guy.

Really hope you can keep up the habit or seeing the ridiculousness of this guy. You can be free and happy, and hopefully you soon will be.

I posted above not realising there was twelve pages, so in that renewed context I would agree, he's a narc and also a control freak, and I was in that place too, three years ago. I went through 52 sessions of counselling, and I'm still not the same person I was before - although I am alot wiser.

I remember getting a facial and feeling the buzz of actually being touched, and how weird that was to me. It wasn't sexual, but comforting - and I cried afterwards.

I was stupid and green. I heard it enough times I started to believe it. He was an aggressive driver. I was a terrible driver (although funny I had no problems before I met him but after I was a nervous wreck in the car. There is so much you have said I can relate to.

I want to touch on extraction from this relationship (which I hope you choose to do). When you want to get away from someone who has alot of control over you they are not going to make it easy. In fact, unless it was their idea to end the relationship it's going to be very hard. It helps if you can become bland, like a little mouse - lose your personality. Don't go to any great effort with him but don't rile him up either. When you leave you will need to have it planned. You will need the help of your Brother and BF. If you can move into a refuge or somewhere safe which he doesn't know about - just leave a note for him saying that you are unhappy in the relationship and will be seeking a divorce. No need for any further information than that. Engage the services of a soliticor and let them sort out the devision of assets. Make it clear to your solititor he's not to know your new address.

Change your number. Instruct your family to be bland and non committal on the phone - but not to pass on your whereabouts or your number. Block him from email.

It's all scary - but then your life can start over with new opportunities, and maybe a loving partner in time with the possibility of a family. Get some counselling if you feel you need it - you're young and such a lovely person and believe you me, it's better to be single and a bit lonely sometimes than it is to be walking on eggshells all the time.

Sorry for the long post....

He sounds absolutely revolting.I feel so sorry that you think this could be normal.

Do you actually want to leave him?

whatisnormal, reading about your day out yesterday just makes me think that you must dread weekends when you're together more. It's supposed to be fun time, not walking on eggshells time!

DH and I have the odd crap weekend but it tends to be 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, not one of us constantly getting at the other.

My mum plays "toxic bingo" whenever she has to put up with my gran (her MIL) for long. She has a mental list of horrible things my gran will do and mentally ticks them off. One Christmas I overheard her quietly say "house" to herself in the kitchen... This is a coping mechanism, though, not a long-term fix. My mum is stuck with my gran and can't do anything about it. You can walk away before it's too late.

Scuse appalling English, typing in a hurry...

Pitchperfect is right about getting well clear of him and making sure he doesn't know where you live, when you get away. Knobs like thiscan escalate into being physically dangerous when they see that you are escaping their control. The best thing about your situation is that you will never have to see this fuckwit again. You don't have DC so you can cut him right out of your life (and if he won't go, you can take legal action against him).

Oh dignified another large ringing of bells about the domineering bully mother!!

My ex also had n alcoholic father who abandoned his family when ex was an early teen.

I really think he is gay. Have known two couples who separated and the men have gone on to live with male partners.

One couple had 2 DC and the oher 4.

There are a lot of similarities.

Whatisnormality - I have skimmed the thread and am really sad for you. Not only does your sex life not sound fair to you but your DH sounds like an utter child.

You say you love him and want to have children but honestly how do you think he would treat children? Do you think he would be a good dad or do you think he'd be put out and nasty (to them as well as to you) because they would take your time and attention away from him? I know what I think.

I don't care what his problem is, whether he's gay or a narcissist or just plain mean. His treatment of you does not sound right.

Your brother, from the little you've posted, sounds like a sensible chap. Can you speak to him, if not about the sex at least about the rest and get his perspective? Might that help?

"He has put the bins out for the second time in 15 years and doing things like the dishwasher are reasonably monumental so maybe there is room for change...."

This really worries me. Even if his behaviour towards you changes, it doesn't change the fact that, deep down, he is a nasty man.

I really feel for you. You sound like a lovely, kind and caring person and your husband has been exploiting your good nature. He is not a nice person and never will be, his behaviour is just too extreme. The way he has treated you is unforgivable.

No reasonable person would treat another human in the way he has. He has stolen too many of your years already and doesn't deserve another chance, he cannot change, that's who he is.

Could you maybe go and spend some time with your best friend or your brother, talk this over with them and ask for their support in leaving him?

You deserve so much better.

I agree with Haliborange, he would probably be just as horrible to your children as he is to you, constantly putting them down and making them incredibly insecure.

You need to protect your future children from this man by not having them with him. He is toxic.