Can't have baby, waited until he got divorced.

[Icelandic]

Have been with dp for over 5 yrs. When I met him he had separated for his wife for a year. He has been more or less living at mine since then. I made absolutely, anally clear that I needed to know that he was absolutely sure about the end of his marriage. During our courtship I urged him to go back to his wife and to have a long hard think that he was absolutely sure. He assured me he was sure. I really covered my back.

He was/is keen to have a family but wanted to wait until he was divorced because he is very proper about things like that.

His wife (knowing his feelings?) has refused to get divorced and they are still not divorced even now. (?)

I have been to see a gynae and have found out that I have started the menopause, my ovaries are no longer working, and I cannot have any more children (have dd, 13)

I am feeling fairly pissed off about this, to put it extremely mildly. We saw Toy Story 3 yesterday and I felt myself crying in a constant niagra falls fashion. I still feel washed out. We are planning to stay together forever etc, but I can't imagine not having a family with him. I had gone to stupid lengths about finding a childminder, keeping keen eye on local primary schools, not throwing out baggy, maternity suitable clothes.

Be kind, I know I have dd, but I met him when I was 36 and a half and never imagined we would not have a baby. The gynae reckoned the menopause started at 38.

ps Welcome, MrMeanor, and I quite agree with you!

I agree with MrMeanor.
And taking a charitable view, I think he probably does have the most enormous guilt complex about leaving his wife (mostly, as others have said, linked with shame about having a failed marriage and what is says about him and his self image, which is clearly absolutely critical to him). I think this is so big and huge it prevents him thinking about your feelings and making you any kind of priority - you are still his guilty illicit pleasure and by hiding you it makes him feel better about what he essentially feels is unforgivable.

But enough of the psychobabble. I really don't think any good will come of sharing an online chat thread with him. I think you need to be very clear what your bottom line is (I would suggest divorce, marriage and public acknowledgement that you are his partner) - and if he doesn't agree, that is the end. Don't drag MN into it....

I may be wrong but I thought that back in 1992 it was not really possible to invest at lloyds without being able to evidence a certain,substantial net worth - excluding property.
Did he really lose his business at exactly the same time that he happened to sustain losses at Lloyds?
And did his wife really stop sleeping with him because of that?

That all sounds really odd.

I am not suggesting that you are nottelling the truth OP but his description of events just sounds a little odd.

Icelandic, report your own and prettybird's comments - press report - you can type a messsage to MNHQ explaining, and you can also ask for your other thread to be deleted and start a new one.

fwiw, he's a tosser, and you'd be better off with your dd and a dog. A spaniel.

I agree with everyone else. What on earth are you doing, scurrying round, hiding behind hedges. Why have you carried on going along with this farce? It's bizarre.

This man was never going to have any children with you if he makes you hide behind hedges.

I'm very sorry, it's a horrible situation. Don't give up on your fertility - I had my DS when I was 42 so until you try, you won't know. I'd see a proper fertility specialist, not a gynaecologist.

Fellatio, I only know what he has told me. I do know that he doesn't see her now. It is a relief to him that the children all drive and so there is no changeover contact. He works very hard and I always know where he is. It is one of the nice things about him. He rings during the day, rings to see if I want a him to pick up a bottle of wine or some ben and jerry's. He would be perfect if it weren't for the small matter of him still being married to someone else and moreover, going along with his wife's absurd demands regarding me. And, see my op, I bent over backwards to make sure that basically, this, this situation, wouldn't happen.

Meh. The wine, the ice cream, the phoning, yy, the icing on the cake. But icing's no good if there's no cake.

But she doesn't have to end up alone does she? She could move on and be happy with a new man if only they'd both admit that their time is up. He's holding her back, not doing her a favour. Surely there must be Christian counsellors who help people over this stuff?

Anyway, I don't think this about any real faith - if it were they'd have worked though it for better or worse, or at the very least, he'd be separated but not in a sexual committed relationship with you. This is about stupid pride and appearances and some warped sense of social standing and family responibility.

Icelandic, you know there's probably some lovely guy within 30 miles of you right now, who'd fall in love at first sight and marry you, and go all-out to have a baby with you at the drop of a hat, don't you? there always is, you know.

Maybe you should just tell him it's over. If he has any backbone at all he will do what he has to do to keep you. If not then you really are better off without him, because you cannot continue to live like this.

I think when he says he had no choice, obviously this isn't objectively true, but it feels true to him, because to have acted otherwise would have been too threatening to his sense of self - it would have meant admitting to himself and to the outside world that he is a Bad Person who has left his marriage.
I wonder, if he is challenging your version of things, you should pack him off to see the priest again as he seems to have given sensible advice previously. Maybe more likely to be listened to than a bunch of mad women on the internet ALso feel that focussing on what he does from now on going forward may be more productive than spending a lot of time trying to get him to admit blame for past mistakes - this can only cause you both more pain.

No, that's very true, fellatio, but I'd still rather be alone than with someone treating me as a dirty little secret, and as someone over whom they have control. But yy - there are great other men out there; being alone for a bit doesn't mean forever.

Sorry, I meant his wife moving on - a bit of a delayed response to your previous post!

Hab, profound. I will be back this afternoon.

What Fellatio said.

And there really is a lovely guy waiting for you. You'll never find him if you stick with the crumb you've got.

And this guy's kids are all adults now - it's not even for the children.

Is there a possibility that she has him over a barrel financially? did he marry into money, or was the house handed sown through her family or something? Has she blackmailed him that she'll leave him penniless unless he continues with the sham? Sounds plausible.

Have the children blackmailed him that they'll never speak to him again if he humiliated them and their by having another baby and diluting their inheritance? Children do do things like this! My DS who is 15 told me the other day that if I, or DH ever left the other he'd hate us for ever and never speak to us again. I can't say he didn't warn me!

Sorry, it sounds like I'm trying to justify his weird moral stance now. I'm not, I'm just trying to get my head round what might be going on in his!

I think you only have a future with this guy if you tell him you aren't playing hide and seek any more and he either moves on in the relationship with you and behaves as though you are a couple or finishes it.

He sounds really arrogant thinking you are lucky because you have him.

He also doesn't see his wife realistically at all as she sounds cold and money grabbing from your story. If she's as bad as he portrays her then he'd have no problem separating from her, yet he obviously does so there must be stuff he's not telling you.

If my husband stopped having sex with me because my income plummeted I wouldn't be feeling sorry for him.

You need to decide what you want to do re this relationship and stop letting him call the tune. It's not good for any of you playing silly games, especially your daughter who will start viewing her mum as someone who can't be seen in public.

How come he cares about his wife's feelings but not yours? I think you need to care about your feelings more. Ice cream and wine don't excuse being treated like a dirty secret.

yeah but fiofio, this guy's got form about not facing up to things hasn't he? He's been 6 years separated now and still not admitting it!
I find that kind of plausible tbh. Though obviously only his version of the story.

Havent read all but to Pag
I really don't know about the lloyds bit, it was a failed business venture that was definitely in 1992. From then all assets were put into her name because of reasons to do with lloyds I think. I don't know the ins and outs of lloyds but I know of a few other people who seem to have lost loads of money so I don't question it. Back at lunchtime. Please don't get too rough. Thank you all.

The more you tell us Icelandic, the more awful it gets. sorry.

My bestfriend is with a man who left his wife. He is similar to your dp in that he won't upset his wife. she does not know that my best friend exists. wife does not know that her dd went on holiday with my friend , friends son, and obviously friends dp, the dd's dad.
I try to persuade friend thta she needs to open her eyes and see what is going on here, but she is unable to.

Woah. Everyone else has said it better so all I have to offer is sympathy. You didn't deserve to be treated like this at all.

I just don't understand how he thinks this carry-on is somehow more respectable. Essentially, he prefers the idea of being a married man having an affair 'arrangement', rather than being someone who can give his wife and his new partner the respect they deserve by letting them both know where they stand. I can't imagine it's really done his wife any favours whether she thinks he has or not - how humiliating for your still lawfully-wedded husband to have taken up with someone else while you sit at home hoping he might come back. He and his wife both sound a bit mad ahem - old-fashioned.

(It kind of reminds me of hearing my grandad express the belief that the wife of a rich/famous serial shagger was the luckiest one of all whose position everyone envied. The way he saw it, the man chose her above all others. The way I saw it, he was choosing someone else over her every night. From the dates and ages you've given it sounds like your DP is a few years older than you, so maybe it's partly a generation thing to think that delaying the divorce indefinitely was being 'considerate' - still mad and inexcusable though.).

Asking a child to lie to their parent to cover up a relationship is despicable, Ob. He should lie to them both, or come clean, but that is outrageous. No good will come of it. People amaze me sometimes.

The 1992 situation with his wife sounds believable - it was a recession then after all and a financial storm like that happened to a lot of people - though I would doubt very much that the financial side was the only reason she stopped having sex with him - I suppose it might have been that at the start - what a great Christian she must be . The Lloyds thing is right - it was in the 80s that going into Lloyds got so royally screwed up because property prices shot up and people were encouraged to 'show' their house as evidence of net worth; whether this was cynically done by underwriters to increase the number of investors and therefore to insulate the big guys, I don't know.

I should think that 'I didn't have a choice' means 'if I wanted to see the children' - which I have some sympathy with; also 'if I didn't want my wife to be more angry with me' which I have less sympathy with.

He sounds rather like my dad - basing his own self-worth on his ability to provide, and absolutely unable to cope with any kind of conflict due to his low self-esteem. TBH this kind of chap can be rather exhausting to be with as you find yourself doing all sorts of stuff to prop him up.

I don't think he has ever really 'got' Christianity tbh - he needs to hang out with a few more tax collectors, prostitutes and publicans, and find his humanity. I should think he would be FURIOUS if one of his daughters were treated by a man the way he has treated you. I hope you find a future that makes sense to you both - and a lot of shouting may be involved.