Can't have baby, waited until he got divorced.

[Icelandic]

Have been with dp for over 5 yrs. When I met him he had separated for his wife for a year. He has been more or less living at mine since then. I made absolutely, anally clear that I needed to know that he was absolutely sure about the end of his marriage. During our courtship I urged him to go back to his wife and to have a long hard think that he was absolutely sure. He assured me he was sure. I really covered my back.

He was/is keen to have a family but wanted to wait until he was divorced because he is very proper about things like that.

His wife (knowing his feelings?) has refused to get divorced and they are still not divorced even now. (?)

I have been to see a gynae and have found out that I have started the menopause, my ovaries are no longer working, and I cannot have any more children (have dd, 13)

I am feeling fairly pissed off about this, to put it extremely mildly. We saw Toy Story 3 yesterday and I felt myself crying in a constant niagra falls fashion. I still feel washed out. We are planning to stay together forever etc, but I can't imagine not having a family with him. I had gone to stupid lengths about finding a childminder, keeping keen eye on local primary schools, not throwing out baggy, maternity suitable clothes.

Be kind, I know I have dd, but I met him when I was 36 and a half and never imagined we would not have a baby. The gynae reckoned the menopause started at 38.

expat I agree things have gone too far now for ultimatums. I was saying what I would have done right back when the OP first found out that he'd not told his wife.

Icelandic where are you? Dumping your idiot boyfriend I hope!

My gran thought she was menopausal. She was 47 and had no period for 6 months.

She was pregnant.

She's passed on, but he's 61 now.

Thank you everyone. He is sorry now, but it is too late. I appreciate all of your comments and thank you for not flaming me.

what are your plans, ice ?

Thinking and shouting. He said he 'didn't have a choice'. meaning re wife I think. Thanks AF, I wa hoping that you wouls comment and one other and you both have. Wish I had consulted you earlier. Dissect 'didn't have a choice.

Sorry - I'm committing the cardinal sin of not reading the whole trhead, but my instant reaction is:

Firstly I'm not sure what his wife has to do with this? She doesn't need to 'agree' to divorce - they've been part for over 6 years for goodness sake - he can just go ahead and insist on one! And as you are both mature committeed adults, having a baby should not depend upon your being married, or him being divorced. So she is a bit of a red herring I think.

You need to sit down and ask him bluntly - does he was to have a child with you? Yes or No? If yes, then just get on with it, and ask for some Chlomyd or whatever it's called. If 'No' ,or 'Not sure' why not? Is it that he's not bothered about children, or it is a lack of real commitment to you?

If he loves you but just doesn't feel the need for a child then I'm afraid you just have to accept it. Unless you think he's misled you, in which case you have to be prepared to move on, if your last chance to have another child is more important to you than your life with him. But that's a huge gamble obviously - trying to find another decent man who wants a child and them making it happen in a hurry won't be easy!

Posted early on and been lurking since. Terrible terrible situation for you. I can really understand how you get into this situation (agree to something for a short period of time and suddenly it is six weeks). What seems very clear to me however is that this man has not been honest with you. He (presumably) claims to love you but he has not had your best interests (or your DDs best interests) at heart. I also understand that you need time to absorb this and to reflect on how this happened. One thing I know. You will never completely understand how someone who has constructed a web of lies over years decided to do this, how it happened, what he meant/thought/felt. You will never get to the bottom of it. If you can, take the advice of others here. Disengage. It will hurt terribly, it will be so difficult to do (especially in a village)but it is the best way for you to decide what you want for your future and to follow through on it.

I would really like him to see his actions through my eyes. He says, re not getting divorced after 6 years' separation, and all the hiding and banning (not from childrens' parties, think public events like a village fete or a country show) 'I had no choice'. I would like a barrister to get him to admit that that remark is a fallacy on every level. That's what I would like at the moment. I must leave this for a bit. It is like a scab I have to pick, however much it stings. Thanks Fellatio, you are one on my list of good advisers on other threads. I want an explanation. Eg, I could help it but I chose to put my wife and daughters consistently above you and your daughter because I have no sense of right and wrong and why I trot off to Church every week, well that is because I am also a hypocrite. How can I make it up to you? Oh, I see, I can't, it is too late. Sorry for depriving you of your last years of fertility. But I have got every thing that I want and you have provided a useful amusement during my divorce. Is it now a miracle that given all of the above I miraculously preserve my sense of my self as a pure, even higher version of humanity as Jesus wanted it.

Icelandic foams at mouth.

That seems like a very accurate explanation to me. He takes no responsibility for his actions, clearly. Unless she was somehow blackmailing him, I fail to see how he had no choice.

I'm interested to know whether, if you still wanted to get married, he would even agree that now is suitable? Because he seems to be talking in the past tense about having a choice, but he has still not committed, has he?

Did you ever say, why did he and she break up in the first place?

OK, so now I've read the whole thread. (God, I REALLY should learn to do this first, in important threads like these.)

I do not think all is lost where getting pregnant is concerned just yet - necessarily. As others have pointed out, starting early menopause doesn't necessarily mean instant infertility.

However....I'd think very seriously about wanting a baby with this man. If you do, it must be because YOU want another baby beyond all things, and you are prepared to take full responsibility for it as a potential single mother. I doubt very much he will ever agree to actively try for a baby, and if you manage to get pregnant by stealth (which I normally don't condone, but in your case I could forgive) I suspect he would drop you like a hot potato. Sorry, but that's the feeling I'm getting. He wants this ALL his own way, and you have been patient and understanding for long enough.

He is a coward and a hypocrite. He is treating you with a total lack of respect. I'm starting to wonder if he really is actually separated properly at all. He doesn't officially live with you, so perhaps his wife thinks they have an 'arrangement'?

Obviously, in his strange mind, he thinks he is doing the decent honourable thing. To everyone but you. You cannot force him to change the status quo, but you can remove yourself from any more humiliation.

He definitely does not see his wife. The way he sees it, he had no choice but to do what she said, however unreasonalbe and he sees himself as having done the honorable thing and for some reason, me and dd do not deserve any consideration because we get the great prize of having him for life, and poor wife doesn't. He thinks that if I were reasonable I would understand all this and respect him for being a gentleman.

He now thinks I should cheerfully forget the 5 years and pretend it didn't happen. Which is beyond me, I'm afraid. He thinks I am being unreasonable for 'ranting' about it. Is ranting an exclusively female activity? It sniffs of mysogyny to me. Thanks Fellatio. Obviously I have namechanged for all this, and I am glad to have had your input.

He thinks, he thinks, he thinks.

Because he's unable or unwilling (or both) to see things from your point of view or make compromises with your point of view and feelings in mind (and your daughter's).

This makes him an arse, not a gentleman.

You deserve so much more than this, Icelandic.

This is a slightly odd situation, beacuse if you were 'having an affair with a married man' I would always say, (in a nice but firm way) 'Tough - that's the risk you take when you go inot these situations. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice'.

But this is different! This is how it was for people years ago, when divorce was not financially possible, or too much of a social stigma to bear. What centruy is he living in?

So if he feels so strongly about it all, why didn't he just stay there and get on with it then? He can't publicly admit he's failed, can he? He's living a lie, like some Victorian politician - it's all about appearances and public image. Have you told him to his face that he is being a cowardly hypocrite?

Sorry if I've missed this, but have you met his wife and talked to her? Is she very neurotic and manipulative? And is he easily dominated by her? Does she lay massive guilt trips on him?

Having said that, he's had no trouble saying 'No' to you all these years, so I'm cynical TBH.

Dear God, what a complete cock.

Icelandic I am sorry. I don't think he is going to admit being in the wrong - he's clearly got some major guilt trip about his wife, probably related to misguided religious beliefs, but if even the priest can see that he needs to get divorced and his advice is ignored, nothing else is either.
I don't think writing a thread is going to help, I'm afraid. I really think you need to finish the relationship, and try to move on. I don't know the solution to your fertility problems, but I think that may be a seperate issue that you need to think through yourself (I am not trivialising the pain of that, I also had fertility problems).

I know that's not what you want to hear, but don't become a martyr to this man.
[I'd also be interested to hear of the circumstances of their break up and the timing with respect to starting the relationship with you]

Hello

As a long time (male) lurker this is the thread that finally pushes me over the edge to register. I promise to limit further intervention and in particular not respond to any posts by Dittany or AF ;-)

There are many idiot men written about on this board, and many times often sensible women who appear too willing to forgive and hope.
This guy takes the biscuit.

His main thoughts and behaviour has nothing to do with either you, his wife, or his kids. It is purely based around him. He is purely interested in the appearance he gives to society and those he does think matter in it - in this case the rest of town/church etc. He has no backbone, no moral fibre and absolutely no right to say 'he had no choice'. As an example of pure selfishness this has to be pretty near the top.

Call his bluff and ask him to start divorce proceedings now and to present you as his partner... He may finally step up to the plate, but I wouldn't put money on it.

You on the other hand sound amusing, intelligent and sensitive. A Border Terrier is a good bet (and I can't comment on the menopause!)

I agree. Even if you get your baby I'm struggling to think how you can continue to have any respect for this man and his odd hypocrisy. I'm all for treating your ex and your children with respect and care when a marriage breaks down, (God knows many on MN would dream of an ex like this!) but this is on another, slightly odd, level.

The break up, and this is all from him, was thus. In 1992 he lost all his money due to a failed business venture and lloyds. From that date his wife stopped sleeping with him, which he says was understandable because she had no financial security. In 2000 he felt he couldn't go without sex anymore. He left her for one day and then went back and they decided they would have sex once a month. They carried on like this but he said she would just lied there and refuse to cuddle or kiss or engage at all, just lay there to keep her end of their arrangement. He couldn't stand it and left in August 2004. Feels very guilty but not guilty about me.

Apparently once she knew about me she wanted him back.

Oh dear. Please be very wary of a man who says that his wife stopped sleeping with him, or didn't have much of a sex life. If they agreed to this arrangement, then why is he sneaking around? Why not be open and say, 'I cannot live like this anymore...' and be honest?

Doesn't add up.

I know, Ilove, but I am sure about that. That is one thing I am completely clear about. And remember, this is Mr Christian, he wouldn't do something as concretely evil as that. What is annoying is that he still manages to see himself as an upstanding Christian whilst telling me I am being unreasonable for objecting. It is more subtle than sex. He thinks that I am the lucky one because I have got him and his wife will end up alone, therefore I should be feeling sorry for her and be happy to be treated like this. He genuinely sees himself as the reasonable victim between two women. I have never met her.

Sorry I posted and wandered off, I see you asked me a question (though I think someone else answered it).

As it was explained to me, there are two parts to a divorce, the personal and the financial. My decree nisi came through at the end of March 2008 and the financial settlement a couple of months later. There was only one house between us, no mortgage but some debts, we sold and split (though XH wanted to keep living there, but there was no way he could have afforded to buy me out). Every situation is different though.

If your DP is hanging around for financial reasons, maybe he's hoping for someone in his wife's family to drop off the perch and leave her large amounts of money, which he can then stake a claim to.

What I really suspect, though, is that this might be a bit of a game to him. After six years' separation, it's not rational to think you need to be hidden. The wife, daughters and priest know about you, it's a pointless cloak-and-dagger exercise. Rather than being a pathetic coward, maybe he gets off on the excitement of having an illicit affair, and tries to keep it like one even though it isn't. And/or he could be keeping you out of sight because he doesn't want you to get on with his daughters. Heaven forbid that you and the nearly-ex-wife should compare notes!

I suppose it's possible she is very sensitive or alternatively vindictive, but what, his daughters as well? Nah, doesn't add up. Is he really doing them any favours telling lies about his private life? If he genuinely believes he is doing the right thing by them, then he's deeply silly. Given that the other options are coward and control fetishist, he doesn't really sound like great partner (or stepfather or potential father) material, however charming he is when he's not shoving you into cupboards or hiding you in ditches.

There's so much going on in this, it's not simple, is it?
He failed financially and his wife rejected him then humiliated him sexually, for starters. He isn't really over her and has been getting to have a relationship of sorts with both of you for the past few years. And something just doesn't add up.
What are the good points that make you want to be with him?

She withdrew sex because he wasn't rich any more? she sounds nice.