Can't have baby, waited until he got divorced.

[Icelandic]

Have been with dp for over 5 yrs. When I met him he had separated for his wife for a year. He has been more or less living at mine since then. I made absolutely, anally clear that I needed to know that he was absolutely sure about the end of his marriage. During our courtship I urged him to go back to his wife and to have a long hard think that he was absolutely sure. He assured me he was sure. I really covered my back.

He was/is keen to have a family but wanted to wait until he was divorced because he is very proper about things like that.

His wife (knowing his feelings?) has refused to get divorced and they are still not divorced even now. (?)

I have been to see a gynae and have found out that I have started the menopause, my ovaries are no longer working, and I cannot have any more children (have dd, 13)

I am feeling fairly pissed off about this, to put it extremely mildly. We saw Toy Story 3 yesterday and I felt myself crying in a constant niagra falls fashion. I still feel washed out. We are planning to stay together forever etc, but I can't imagine not having a family with him. I had gone to stupid lengths about finding a childminder, keeping keen eye on local primary schools, not throwing out baggy, maternity suitable clothes.

Be kind, I know I have dd, but I met him when I was 36 and a half and never imagined we would not have a baby. The gynae reckoned the menopause started at 38.

Oh dear. Your later posts sound very familiar. My aunt waited over 15 years for her partner to divorce his wife and officially recognize her as his new partner. She went alone to family weddings and christenings, even those of her own daughters, as he was not ready to go public and upset his wife. Last year he stared going golfing with two women friends and then began going on holidays with them. My aunt finally ended it this year.

He has used and abused your trust. He has no intention of divorcing his wife. Please, don't waste any more time on this wanker, you are worth more than this.

It could well be that his (ex) wife would have have been wanting to drag out the divorce process to ensure that he would be unable to have children with you.

I know several ex wives who have deliberately tried to sabotage their ex husband's new relationships with women who are of child-bearing age, because they did not want their ex-husbands to have more children as it could take his focus/money/love away from his existing children. This is a real issue with many second marriages and there are all sorts of pitfalls.

It may be he just could not face the reality of handling this type of complex situation, but he should have shown much more consideration towards what you wanted.

He may also have been dragging his feet on the matter due to conflicting loyalties, pressure from (ex) wife, guilt and maybe, also, not wanting children.

The stuff about hiding when the adult children are around is insane.

Oh dear! So sorry but sounds as though there was on hell of a lot of stuff still going on with regards to his first marriage.

How about going cold turkey on him? Either he sorts out all the stuff, accepts that you still want children (by whatever means) puts you first as his wife and partner, or you go elsewhere. Might just focus his mind.

He is not going to divorce her. If there is no house then there is nothing to settle financially.

I met DH when he had been separated from his ex-wife for 6 months. He had already looked into divorce and been to see a solicitor and before meeting me had decided that to save a row over her 'unreasonable behaviour', that he was going to wait 2 years which was the time limit. Within 2 weeks of meeting me he had re-instructed his solicitor to issue divorce papers citing unreasonable behaviour and saying that he would be looking for her to pay his legal costs unless she signed right away. The nisi was through before DH moved in with me 2 months later.

In short - if he wanted to be with you he would have found a way. He has taken you for a ride good and proper.

Six years you have waited. It is only 2 years that it has to wait if only one party wants the divorce, I am sure? That is what DH's solicitor told him.
The timeframe is the same - DH and I met 6 years ago.

For heavens sake leave him and make your own life, you will never be first in his.

Icelandic what exactly is your gynae basing this rather doomsday scenario that you in complete menopause on? Is it just high fsh? If so, you will find that many, many women have high fsh (and many are similarly told that they are in menopause). But high FSH ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT mean you can't get pregnant. I was told I have high fsh several years ago, and have recently gave birth to another dd at 42. And she was conceived on just the third month trying! Please don't take what your gynae said as gospel. Gynaecologists know very little about your true fertility in the general scheme of things. Just look on the internet to see all the women of 40+ who have had children despite being assured they are past it!

He's pissing about. He's got his cake and he's eating it.

Get rid of him unless he starts treating you better, gets a divorce, lives with you publicly in full partnership with you. His treatment of you is appalling.

Sorry Icelandic. You're going to have to be tough about this. Personally, I'd dump him.

Yes, I was going to say that about high FSH levels too. However, having a child with him might not be the right move as things stand. (Hard for us to know.)

I'm sure some of this has been painful to hear. Some very wise women are ALL telling you the same thing.

Please listen.

How long are you willing to give him to get divorced. Another 7 years?

Think ahead 10 years, what kind of life do you think you will have? Will you still be hiding round corners when his grandchildren come to visit?

By putting up with this crap, you are setting a very bad example to your daughter about what to expect from a relationship.

Get yourself a dog and a vibrator if you dont already have one. Appart from sex I cant see what else you are getting out of the relationship. Then go out and meet someone who would be proud to introduce you and your daughter to his family.

No, having a child with this guy is not the right thing, but having a child with a more deserving guy might well still be a possibility. And might give her an incentive to leave this loser!

I was diagnosed as having gone through a premature menopause in 1993, based on high FSH levels

Since then I have had two miscarriages and two healthy babies.

Just sayin'

I am going to swim against the tide.

I think it was quite admirable for your partner to want to wait before starting another family. How many threads have been started on these boards about a partner leaving to immediately start another family? That can sometimes make for a heartbreaking situation for the first family. His children from his first marriage have been given some time to get their heads around the situation.

I feel so sad for you - but I don't think anyone was to blame. It is down right rotten shitty bad luck.

It is entirely understandable that you thought you could still have a family in your early 40's - a lot of women do.

Oh my god, I missed a page on your thread.

Sorry - I take back what I said. Although it is admirable for a man to take his time. In no way should you be a 'secret!' But you know that right?

Thank you everybody for contributing; some of you (bridge, and many more) seem to have an insight beyond what I have actually told you.

Those of you who pointed out that I shouldn't be blaming ex-w, but dp are right, and I needed a good critical mass of mns to make that clear to my own head.

I am just going to reply to daytoday because I have just read it.
'His children from his first marriage have been given some time to get their heads around the situation'. Daytoday, he and his wife have been separated for 6 years. How about my dd getting her head around the situation that from the age of 7 to 13 her mother has been told to conceal the fact that the two of them exist when the first wife so decrees. I am desperate not to be perceived as the stroppy 2nd wife, neglecting the children of the first marriage but please remember that MY dd is equally important, a fact that I am realising I have neglected myself. Thanks though, for all your thoughts.

This is something that dp wrote in response to something I wrote about how he, his wife and his daughters have treated me over the years. I think it sums up his thoughts well and I would like to know what you think.

I would also still like to know, and have wanted to know for ages, what you would do in my position when I realised he hadn't told his wife that he was with me. What would you have done?

Dp describes the separate family occasions and me being banned from certain public events (think village fete) as decreed by NOT YET EX wife as:
'my consideration for wife's feelings'.

This is after they have been separated for years and after all my efforts at the start to check the marriage was really over before I got involved. Note the loaded language. It is a positive thing that dp is doing, 'consideration', 'feelings'. The loaded implication is that anyone who objected to this long term policy of exclusion for me and my dd would logically be showing a lack of consideration for wife's feelings. Therefore I have to put up with it without a murmur or I am, yet again, the bad guy. Clever.

This is the bit I really wanted to show you and I am going to run away for a bit after this, and come back later.

'What better way for Icelandic to generate respect from my daughters than to show respect for their mother's feelings, however silly they were' Discuss. The date for this is (significantly) 4th July 2010. This year. What about the feelings of my dd?

I appreciate your straight talking, there was a comment by SGB in response to the poster who has a friend in a similar position that has got me going further than the original post. It really stang. That said, please do not post anything too horrible. Thank you everybody.

Hello daytoday, yes, the timescale is important to know, but I appreciate that dp is more honorable to his wife then some men I read about on mn seem to be.

I keep refering to her as ex wife but they are not divorced (yet).

Can I ask what the circumstances were behind his and his wife's split? Did he leave her, or she leave him, or did they just grow apart?

(I know splits are never this black and white, but bear with me...)

I wonder, for instance, if he left her whether he still feels guilt for doing so - hence the tip-toeing around her. Similarly, if she left him, is he still pandering like this in a bid to make her think she'd made a mistake because, oh look how sensitive he is after all these years!

As for your question about what I would have done - I genuinely don't know. Thinking about my friend's position, I know she would never dare pick up and the phone and call her DP's ex-wife for fear of the consequences, but given the position she's in, I sometimes wish she had the balls to do it just to force the issue. Surely knowing one way or another which way the cards are going to fall is better than living in limbo?

Icelandic...you won't like this but you have asked a direct question so you get a direct answer

"What would you have done when you realised he hadn't told his wife ?"

and...not just this

he effectively kept you secret and made you deny your own (and your dd's) existence in his life

he persuaded you it was in his wife's best interests to humiliate yourself by these ridiculous Benny Hill-type sketches where you hide yourself away in the garden/the wardrobe/out of your own house when his (grown-up) children visited

what would I have done ? I would have walked away....

Icelandic

I am really sorry that you have just realised the situation you are in.

It must be bloody horrible to be told you are in such an early menopause.

Your OH sounds like a selfish knob. Will you ever be happy with a man who consistantly puts you behind his ex wife?

Are you sure this is really what he is doing? Could he be painting her as a demanding shrew in order to keep the status quo?

Just a thought.

I can understand his wife not wanting you invited to events concerning the kids like school plays, her kids birthday parties etc if they aren't divorced and she is bitter.
My husband and I often went alone to this sort of thing if ex there even though we are married, but the kids are younger and it's in the kids' interests for their parents to be happy.
A village fete is a public event though. If my ex or my husband's ex tried to stop one of us attending a public event even before we got divorced and remarried I'd be saying no and would have told my bloke the relationship is over.
Your boyfriend isn't even concerned about his kids' feelings here, just his wife's. That is unacceptable.

his wife

his wife

you have no status here, and that is just the way he likes it

What would I have done if I realised he hadn't told his wife?

Given him an ultimatum. 1 week - and he either tells her or it's over.

For God's sake woman grow a backbone. His previous relationship is his problem, but he has made it your problem.

He is treating you like his mistress. The wife comes first, you mustn't make any demands, you must be kept secret, you can't raise the subject of divorce because his marriage is sacrosanct.
Does she really think all this or is he just using it as a convenient excuse to keep you at arm's length?

I would have a serious think about what sort of model for a relationship you are giving your teenage daughter. She will be forming all sorts of opinions about how relationships work. Do you really want her to think that allowing herself to be treated with such little respect is how a relationship should be?

Think about it.

I have a friend who actually had a child with a guy like this: marriage was supposedly over, living apart, but with children Nin her case, not grown up).

First it was "don't want to rock the boat/unsettle the children until the eldest has gone to secondary school", then it was the younger one, then it was uni then it was....

14 years later, she realsied that he was never going to commit.

She has now married someone else.

THis man is a shit. He has put himself first all along - he doesn't want his wife 'upset' not because he cares about her feelings, but he doesn't want her making his life difficult. He's almost certainly telling her that he's 'torn in two' and misses her so she's scurrying around cooking extra nice dinners when he comes to visit, bending over backwards not to argue with him, and quite possibly sucking his cock now and again when he fancies a chance from your charms.

No matter what, he's not going to commit to you, live with you or marry you. Other posters have come up with some helpful and inspiring stories about it may not be to late for you to have another baby and I will add that I concieved (without assistance and without actually intending to) at 39 and now have a healthy son - and when I concieved I thought I was premenopausal and therefore wouldn't get PG from one shag.

BIn this man, consider whether you want a child of your own with someone else or as a single parent and concentrate on yoursellf for a bit.

Icelandic, this is bloody awful. Please get rid of him, please. Believe me, if I had to hide in a wardrobe for any reason other than sex games, I'd never see the man again.

You couldn't go to the village fete? I'm afraid that would be enough for me on its own. Hiding with my dd in a hedge? Not a chance.

His kids are grown up. Your dd needs a good man around who is not scared of making a commitment to you; certainly a man who is playing about like this.

Do it for her sake, as well as your own.

Fuck ultimatums. Fuck him off entirely. Tell him to go to fuck.

As far as the village fete goes, it's a public event, if you want to go, go.

If he doesn't like it, fuck him.

Agree with posts regarding advice telling OP to tell DP to fuck off - completely.

As regards what gynae has said re menopause - don't take it as gospel. I'm another who was told I was menopausal and unlikely to ever conceive using my own eggs - six months later I was pregnant with twins. High FSH levels do not necessarily mean the end of fertility - and I had high FSH levels for several cycles as well as hot flushes and other menopausal symptoms.