Can't have baby, waited until he got divorced.

[Icelandic]

Have been with dp for over 5 yrs. When I met him he had separated for his wife for a year. He has been more or less living at mine since then. I made absolutely, anally clear that I needed to know that he was absolutely sure about the end of his marriage. During our courtship I urged him to go back to his wife and to have a long hard think that he was absolutely sure. He assured me he was sure. I really covered my back.

He was/is keen to have a family but wanted to wait until he was divorced because he is very proper about things like that.

His wife (knowing his feelings?) has refused to get divorced and they are still not divorced even now. (?)

I have been to see a gynae and have found out that I have started the menopause, my ovaries are no longer working, and I cannot have any more children (have dd, 13)

I am feeling fairly pissed off about this, to put it extremely mildly. We saw Toy Story 3 yesterday and I felt myself crying in a constant niagra falls fashion. I still feel washed out. We are planning to stay together forever etc, but I can't imagine not having a family with him. I had gone to stupid lengths about finding a childminder, keeping keen eye on local primary schools, not throwing out baggy, maternity suitable clothes.

Be kind, I know I have dd, but I met him when I was 36 and a half and never imagined we would not have a baby. The gynae reckoned the menopause started at 38.

Yes, I'm really sorry OP but if he's not even living with you, and it's been 6 years, then I don't think he's actually as committed as he says he is. All of this "wanting to be fair to everyone" is just a euphenism for "not wanting to be the bad guy and instigate divorce". I wonder how often he sees his wife?

Icelandic - there is no point torturing yourslef with the "could haves" or "should haves".

You do need to mourn the babies you can't now have - but don't blame yourself. If you need to be angry at your dp, then be angry - don't let it fester and build up resentment. Tell him that you are upset - and then allow yourselves to move on.

I am now 49 and have only recently just about resigned myself to the fact that ds (10 this week) is going to be an only child.

Op what you are saying about him living separate to you but being able to shag you is ringing some alarm bells for me. are you absoloutly sure of his commitment to you and you as a family? and why didn't you know that at one point she wanted him back? surely he would have told you that at the time? i couldn't imagine a commited relationship, like you say it is, without all of this stuff being openly discussed. it sems he is keeping his life very separate from you.

Thanks expat - it's so hard when it's your best friend. They both live in the States now (his ex and kids still live in the UK, which makes the secrecy even more weird in my eyes) and she was back in the UK without him a couple of weekends ago to renew her visa. I got a bit pissed and ended up being quite blunt, saying there's no way she should even be thinking about having kids with him without tackling the fundamental issues of divorce and secrecy first. She took it well, but I just fear she's too scared to raise it with him as if they split up, she's stuck in the States alone IYSWIM.

(Again, apols for the hijack, OP)

He could have divorced his wife at any time on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour. This might have been difficult if she objected but it wouldn't have been impossible. Now they have been apart for 5 years he can divorce her on the grounds of 5 years separation. She cannot block that.

The finances do have to be resolved when they divorce but that doesn't mean he has to come up with money he doesn't have. It simply means looking at all their assets and arranging an appropriate split between them. They can agree whatever split they want, although a 50/50 split is usually the starting point.

Contrary to what Dinghy says, I do think the religious excuse may have some credibility, especially if he attends church regularly. Whilst the Biblical position is that he is committing adultery, the more practical view is that, whilst he is sleeping with you, other churchgoers may not be aware of that. If he moves in with you or has children with you it becomes more obvious which, in some churches, may lead to life becoming difficult for him. Some churches (and it tends to be individual churches rather than entire denominations) still aren't very accepting of people who have divorced and remarried, let alone people who are openly living with someone when they aren't married to them. However, he may find his church is more accepting than he expects and, if it isn't, there are plenty of other churches out there.

I suspect that he expected to marry once and stay married for life. The lack of a divorce may be a way of hanging on to that illusion. Getting divorced may seem like a very big step to him. It isn't logical but whoever said that humans were logical.

I'm sorry about your situation. It is a shame you have missed out on having children with him. However, given his lack of commitment, maybe that is a good thing really, even though it feels like a disaster right now.

'he has his own house so he doesn't officially live with me. He is C of E, which seems to mean shag but not openly live with or have (illegitimate) kids with.' Don't know what branch of the Church he is a member of.

Does his wife know he is intending to marry you when the divorce is finalised?

Also, if you are not going to have children together does this change his intention towards you regarding marriage?

oh yes OP you say he has his own house but then in the same post say he has no house (asset) when talking about the financial agreement with his wife. does he rent his house? i was confused by that.

"he felt he had to be fair to everyone"

everyone except you apparently

all this crap about his mother having a menopause baby at 42 is a smokescreen

this man met you in your late 30s - if there was to be any future including children things needed to happen quickly

he's been fobbing you off for years - you have been picking out childminders for the children he was refusing to have while failing to take steps to end the marriage he said was over

it doesn't sound like you know very much about his circumstances, and as if you've decided that you have no business asking about his financial situation or the (ongoing) relationship he has with his wife.

where is the basis for thinking you two have a future together at all, never mind a forever future?

I think you are well within your rights to use this revelation to reassess why you are with a man who has allowed your fertility to run about while he promised you things it looks like he has no intention of ever giving you.

Thanks, I was 36 when I met him, not 35, as I mistyped earlier.

He rents his house.

VivCliquot @ 13.10: Your friend's situation sounds worryingly similar. Get her to read this, would you, to avoid the same happening to her?

P47bridge has got the religious situation about right.

I am fed up but thank you all for your thoughts.

Sorry yo'ure fed up Icelandic. i really do feel for you.

if you truly want more children, would you go solo and adopt? I understand of course that's not for everyone.

No. I will get a dog and go for long soulful walks. Thank you Dinghy. VivCliquot, I think I am a bit like your friend. If I ask about the divorce, or why he wouldn't let me attend public events in case she saw me, he accuses me of 'attacking' her and says he doesn't want to upset her and he expects me to be understanding because she is 'fragile'. I am not allowed to be visible in the seat of the car when we drop off the daughters, and when I suggested that I shouldn't get out and stand in the lane, I am accused of upsetting his daughter (aged 21). It seems to be perceived as an act of aggression on my part if I make any objection at all.

I do object because I did bend over backwards to check that he really was finished with his wife and I would NOT be putting myself in the middle of a divorce (see op)

One more thing. When I was first seeing him, I assumed he had told his wife he had a girlfriend and I was astonished to realise that he hadn't told her. By this point we were sleeping together and I HEARD ENORMOUS ALARM BELLS ABOUT MARRIED MEN LYING ABOUT NOT SLEEPING WITH THEIR WIVES FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS ETC, putting it in capitals so you know that I am not totally naive. I put pressure on him to tell her,
a) so I would not be playing the part of 'the other woman', having a relationship with her husband behind her back.
s) We are all reasonably local and I was sure she would first see me with him somewhere like Tesco, which would be awful for her
c) I just felt very, very uncomfortable indeed.

What would you have done at this point?

I kept telling him every time I saw him for a week and told myself that if he hadn't told her by the end of the week, I would tell her myself.

He didn't, so I did. That made me a villain for upsetting her.

I even rang his parish priest. He went to see him about 3 years ago. Priest didn't offer him tea and biscuits (he told me, I wasn't there) and told him to, 'Get divorced'.

One of his daughters (age 22) came to his house one evening and I had to quickly hide round a corner in the kitchen whilst he made excuses to her to get rid of her so she wouldn't see me.

They all know I exist now but I am held in low esteem for the upset I have caused their mother, who I have not met.

Hey Ho. What dog shall I get? It has to be fairly small. Jack Russell?

This has gone off topic.

Soory to hear you are going through this, I am 40 and am hoping to conceive baby no2 soon and would be devastated if it didn't happen. Baby No 1 is going to be 1 year in two weeks and I left it far too late to start a family but didn't meet Mr Right until I was 35.

I was divorced after two years seperation and finances weren't sorted for another 18 months, so I don't think they have to go hand in hand.

Oh icelandic - I really do feel for you, and actually think this guy is quite a lowlife for treating you this way. What a scumbag.

To be fair, I think you've always done the right thing by at least trying to ask questions or gain an understanding on why things have had to be this way. I just wonder what you get out of this relationship, other than being made to feel like the other woman?

Again - trying to draw parallels - I've tried to speak to my friend whenever I see her, but it's so hard when day-to-day she's on the other side of the world. I worry that when she's over in the States living this apparently wonderful life with him, she can compartmentalise the fact that he has an (ex)wife and two children at home.

As an example - she told us last summer that she had made him promise he would spend Christmas with her as ever since they had got together, he had always spent Christmas with his ex-wife and kids. My friend's parents were flying over to the States, and she wanted to throw a perfect Christmas for her DP and family. He promised and promised and then two days beforehand, he actually 'fessed up that his ex and kids were coming to the States to spend Xmas with him, so she had to explain to her mum and dad why he'd let her down and wasn't there on Xmas Day. He'd known for months.

Plus, I've had fertility issues myself so when having a drunken rant trying to talk to her about it a couple of weeks ago, I did make the point that the longer she leaves things in this state of limbo, the harder things can become.

As for dogs - I've always wanted a West Highland Terrier. :)

Gosh OP, the more you write the more odious this man sounds.

He was never going to have a baby with you, he is never going to put you first.

You have to understand that his ex is "fragile"?

Please end this charade of a relationship and give yourself the chance to find someone who cares about your happiness and who is proud to be with you.

This thread is tragic.

Poor you. This guy has been separated for 6 years but doesn't sound as though he has emotionally separated at all. I could understand this sort of behaviour in the first year of separation but he is putting you bottom of the pile.
I wouldn't stand for being treated like this.
I wouldn't have a long relationship with a man who didn't discuss the details of divorce settlement, finances with me either.
If the kids are grown up I'm surprised there is much to discuss.
He sounds like a wimp who views your relationship much more casually than you do.
Sorry.

Icelandic, I'm sorry, but you've been had.

This guy strung you along.

Unfortunately, the writing's on the wall as far as conceiving and bearing another child for you.

But you know, you do have a lovely child, and you have you, yourself, the rest of your life.

Don't waste any more of it on this person.

Because he really sounds like an arse.

Crikey.

I was 35 when I met my DP and 37 when I got pregnant. He was far from divorced at that point, though, like you, we were living together. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to view the actual divorce papers as an obstacle to having a baby. I needed to get on with it!

He doesn't see her at all anymore. The children can all drive themselves.

Good Luck, Howtowhereheels.

What would you have done in my place re phoning the wife? I have been vilified for doing that.

Will look at Highland Terriers.

So, it sounds like you see his girls. Does he stay with you then or is he back at his house with you as his visiting girlfriend?

What about social events, are you now recognised as a couple?

Sorry to read your post this afternoon, it really does sound like you have been very (perhaps too) patient.

A relative of mine split up with his wife four decades ago. They were never divorced for genuine religious reasons. The man never lived with his new partner and she knew she would never inherit anything from him. The 'new' partner is now dead, outlived by both the original man and wife. The new partner did not want children & was happy to accept their relationship as it was but it was a big ask. They could never attend social occasions together, even thirty years on, if his wife would be attending.

Oh dear.

Are you sure he isn't still with his wife - is he still sleeping with her?

I agree - the more you say, the worse he sounds. He never intended to have chidlren with you. Perhaps he is divorced now, he just has kept it from you (v easy to do - but you can search and pay online to get a copy of his divorce cert btw, if you want to check)

And you already have a mangey dog. Ditch him and find someone wayyyy better whom you deserve. Don't bring you dd up thinking it's ok to be treated this way.

i'm so sorry - this is just awful.

Just read through the whole of this. What an awful, awful man.

Walk away from him; he's been using you, and abusing your good nature.

Think about it this way: what of your DD was an adult and came to you with this? What would you do?

Very :( for you, icelandic.

So sorry, but even if you were fertile, it doesn't mean that you would have gotten pregnant. My understanding is that fertility declines before it stops altogether, so don't be too hard on yourself.

This thread is incredibly depressing. I'm really genuinely saddened by it :( Love, you can do so much better than this kind of thing... I feel incredibly sorry for you.

You are allowing yourself to be shat on from a dizzy height by this man. He doesn't want to get married, he doesn't want to get divorced, he doesn't want a grown up open relationship with you and he doesn't want you to have his child.

You need to be kind to yourself and get the hell out. Cut off all ties, no windy walks, emotional texts, talks and dinner, none of it. Get out and stay out. Cut it dead. He's strung you along and manipulated you and disregarded your hopes and dreams. And has been incredibly disrespectful.

You CAN be happy. As for having a baby, you could look at pregnancy as a single parent - go back to your gynae and see how things are if you decided to go for donor sperm - see if there's any chance in using your own eggs. Alternatively you can look at egg and embryo donation - your age doesn't really factor in this as it's the age of the donor that matters. www.fertilityfriends.co.uk has lots of information on this and there are loads of women who go ahead and do this.

Fast forward 10 years - would you like to be in your own place with a young child, or forever waiting for this man-child to shit or get off the pot?
I know this will make uncomfortable reading but I speak from experience here - I was with someone who, when I FINALLY pressed him, said he wanted to get married and have children, but not to me. We'd been together 5 years and he still hadn't finalised his divorce either. We split up, he married some girl within 6 months, they have 2 kids. I met someone MUCH MUCH better, a normal lovely gorgeous man who is my soul mate and best friend and to whom my dreams matter and we have one child and twins on the way after fertility treatment. It's not too late, but don't waste another day.

PS, the ex came back, after he'd had the 2 kids to tell me he 'wasn't the marrying kind'. I took great delight in telling him where to shove it and feel desperately sorry for the poor cow he married.