NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Hope you dont mind me jumping in here too.

LMHF and FBC's posts ring so true to me, having spent only a small amount of time abroad - I realised I was going insane and I had to get out.

Ex didnt have his visa then, and British Embassy saw straight through him, told me I needed to be in the UK and working before they would consider sending him over, so at least I had a good reason to flee back home.

But I spent weeks stuck in a flat here or there in Cairo, the last one was most depressing - high up and set back down a tiny back street so you ended up with a view of an angle of about 39 degrees - and what chaos was happening just in that small area.........

He too refused to teach me the language, but I picked up enough to make me paranoid, and enough to sometimes know what people were saying - his mum telling the neighbours I was dirty - she kept the phone locked away so that I couldnt speak to him, she was nice but jealous at the same time.

The only decent person I met there ( a friend from a restaurant round the corner) who told him one night that he was behaving badly and what was he doing to me - he knew it was just the visa he was after..... Being stuck for ever just waiting... Waiting and being anxious and alone, and waiting.

He thought if he just plied me with cannabis that it would keep me quiet.

Prior to meeting him my friends and I indulged as a social thing, once into this thing with him it became a narcotic to blank the awfulness away, and I would ask him not to bring it in the house because if it was there I had to smoke it.

So he kept on bringing it home.

A cannabis feeder I guess.

The week after he left I stopped, and can count on one hand how many times I have had some in the following 8 years, at a party or the like. I guess he made me a dope alcoholic.

Even my wonderful midwife told me not to stop smoking when I was pregnant (can you believe that) as she felt that the stress which would occur if I 'sobered up' would be potentially threatening for my baby. I guess thats how bad she saw my situation.

I still have to deal with him, though thankfully hardly at all, and only through my mum who is the go between for contact with DD.

He is the golden dad to her, full of charm and promises and great claims, but she knows that he wasnt like that with me, and my mum is wise to his ways.

He had no contact at all from when she was 6 til last year when she was 9, all down to pride and refusal to do anything which he didnt dictate.

At one point he told my DP that if he couldnt come and take her out when he wanted then he would wait til she was an adult and she could come and find him.

I still have the dreams Im afraid. Dreams where he is trying to kill me. I guess the more aware of the type of person he is, the more aware I was of what might have been.

Taking him to court to give my daughter protection from him was cathartic for me, he had always tantrumed and refused to engage in anything, agreed and then changed his mind, tried to demand and control, that to actually stand up and MAKE something happen, to show that the law recognised that I was right, well it felt good and set me free from actually being frightened of him.

He has done things which I KNOW have an underlying something about them, but seem 'nice' to an onlookerr who doesnt understand what he is tring to show, but my parents and DP are supportive and I think they understand when I explain his motives, they dont seem to think Im a loon.

wow that went on a bit and didnt really say what I started out to say.

Great post NettleTea I just para'd it for you. Fascinating. yep he sounds a right twonker!

Wishing you strength. x x x

Thank you. I think I went on a literary rant and forgot my paragraphs....

I didnt know anything about NPD, or indeed anything. It wasnt until he left and I was dealing with the contact ssues with DD that I began to wonder if he might have ASD, but wobbled between thinking that or that he was just a manipulative bastard. Its difficult to accept that someone does that deliberately, that they could actually be that evil, it goes against what I had always believed and hoped, that people generally are kind andd treat each other as they would like to be treated themselves.

NPD fits him to a tee. I can see it in nearly everything that has been written, and the acknowledgement has made it so much easier to understand and deal with him now that I am removed and safe.

When I first met my ex, I thought I had met the man of my dreams. I was swept away into a world of romance, electrifying energy, adventures and it all suddenly evaporated when I moved in with him six months later. I lived with him for two years and the abuse wore me out. I knew 'something' was wrong but I just didn't know what. He displayed all the characteristics of a person with NPD to the T and I would always try and make justifications for him and usually ended up feeling sorry for him or guilty that I wasn't doing enough. When I was 6 months pregnant we went away on a trip to Scotland and after a minor argument he left me deserted on an island and came back home. My wallet and phone were in his car. I wandered the island for hours before some kind soul helped me and put me on a ferry. It took me more than 17 hours to get home and as I entered the door he was standing there enraged and said that I had put myself in that situation by arguing with him and leaving the car during our argument.

In the seventh and eight month of my pregnancy he was physically abusive to me and I kept blaming myself. After my baby was born he became paranoid that I wasn't doing a good enough job and became overly criticial which in turn made me anxious. I felt like I was losing my mind. We kept arguing and he refused to help with the baby. One night we had an argument and I asked him to leave as the argument was getting heated and usually I would leave the house but I couldn't go now as my baby was asleep. He refused to leave. The argument became so bad that I found myself on the floor while he had his knee on my chest and was holding my arms in a vice like grip for several minutes. I finally got one arm loose and took off the glasses from his face which broke in my hands during the struggle. I then bit him on his leg and he finally let me go. I cried for what seemed like hours afterwards and he kept saying that I should go look after the baby. His eyes were dead. I told him I would leave him and began to pack mine and the baby's clothes. He called the police and told them I bit him and broke his glasses and I ended up with a police caution.

He then began a new relationship which made it easier for me to get rid of him as he didn't want to leave us and wouldn't let me leave either. He would get angry, cry, beg and do everything in his power until I relented. We have now split up. I am much happier and relaxed after going through this ordeal. My baby is six months old and I feel he is not emotionally invested in her and seems to care for her only when other people are around. He is also marrying someone in a few months' time and this girl is 10 years younger than him. I feel incredible amount of concern for her but don't want to say anything as it may be misconstrued as jealousy.

My biggest challenge now is to make sure my daughter is safe from any psychological pain he is so capable of inflicting on people. He seems really happy in this new relationship, and I hope for the sake of my baby and for the sake of this new woman in his life that he has changed for the better. I am trying to move on with my life but I have been depressed and anxious for the past six months whilst taking care of my baby alone (who by the way is thriving :) )

I wish all NPD sufferers the best of luck and advice those who are in relationships with partners with NPD - GET OUT! Nothing is enough for them and they will drain you and still never be sated. Preserve your sanity and don't put up with any kind of abuse. You deserve better!

I've just met the ONLY attractive man I've encountered in this town since moving here over 3 years ago.

We talked for about 20 minutes. He managed to tell me three times, "I'm not a manipulator"

I saw the red flag! Yay me! I told him I'm very poor (true), have no business contacts (untrue) and am committed to celibacy

Excuse me for butting in your thread. There are a lot on here who seem to know a lot about this disorder and I was wondering if you could help.

Could not read the whole thread as to be honest I find it a bit traumatizing as it's like re-living it. I'm fairly convinced my ex has NPD and although I am 8 months in to no contact with him, I still find it hard to deal with what's happened.

I have been suffering with depression and nightmares for a long time. Been getting counselling but feel like it's a long never ending road. Still wonder sometimes if it was me, I feel a bit shell shocked and things don't seem real sometimes.

Is there anything I can do to aid recovery?

Couldn't tell you, unfortunately (and feel free, it's on an open forum!). It's funny though, isn't it, how they're the ones who have something wrong going on in their heads but we're the ones who end up needing counselling and/or therapy and years to get over it. Something wrong with the universe there.

Thanks for the reply and yes you're right I guess that's why I think it's me.

I'm genuinely scared of men now, A guy talked to me while I was out with a friend recently, he took my arm in a sort of 'come here' sort of way, I got a load of flash backs and was out of that bar within minutes.

I just want to feel normal again :(

Do you feel you're with the right sort of counsellor? Does he or she understand about NPD?

She is a domestic violence counselor, it's good to talk just don't know where to start.

As my CBT counsellor said to me when I was depressed and asked her if I was going mad.

"if you are asking if you are going mad, you can't possibly BE going mad. Mad people don't think they are mad."

It's a rare survivor who doesn't need to talk around it for ages, notoriginal. When somebody's leveraged your trust and love to deliberately fuck up your head, you'd be expecting a bit much if you expected that same, fucked-over head, and that same capacity for trust, to steer you right to the solution. It's important that you feel your counsellor's got more of a fix on what happened to you than you have. And it's crucial to keep talking! The more you do, the more things come together.

Welcome :)

NettleTea: when were you there? how long for? You poor love, didn't know you had gone through all that too, I know you've said bits here and there, but never put it together. Oh, were you the one that actually DID shout WTF is WRONG with you people OUT LOUD in the street?

From one who knows the hell of the weeks indoors (10 weeks was the longest) a hug. A Bloody great big hug.

I smoked dope every night too, to sleep, to escape, to hide from him. Another 'friend' I met on here took Sleeping Tablets. We did what we have to do to get through it.

We're out, we're here and we're free. to that!

I got some nightmares, totally terrifying notoriginal, but I changed the room around and that helped. Just keep reassuring yourself, it's totally understandable and normal to feel what you are feeling. It'll be OK, it's ONLY 8m since you went No contact, these kinds of scars take longer to heal than real bruises. Please be kind to yourself.

Thanks for the advice guys, I will think about maybe getting a more specific counselor, I know I will need one for some time to come.

I'm trying to pursue new interests and just make a new life really.

Thanks for the welcome.

You are welcome anytime! anytime you need to understand something, need help with a thought or an aspect of this trauma you have been through, come talk it though with us!

I wrote that lenghty message before about how great it is that I got rid of my N ex - but he's getting engaged tomorrow and I feel so sad and depressed. WHY??? I feel like I want him back. What's wrong with me????

You are grieving for what could have been.

could have been, but never would have been, due to the fact that your ex was not the person you thought he was.

You know you don't want to go back to that kind of life, you know the poor woman he is getting engaged to literally doesn't know what is going to hit her.

Hey, my mum was very low when my dad got divorced again (he is NPD). A little surprising to me at first, but then I thought - she's ahd years of training to meet his every need and make herself subservient to him. So when he is going through something big OF COURSE she's going to feel like she needs to take care of it, make it all better, because that has been the pattern for 25 years (or whatever it was - too long!).

Also, my mum doesn't seem to realise that she is repeating the pattern with my sister. My sister (who lives with her) is very controlling, manipulative, and abusive and my mum doesn't seem to do anything about it. It's like mum is so 'comfortable' in that role, or used to that role, that she doesn't know how to shift it (been going on for years now). I read about codependency which seems to fit her to a tee. It freaks me out completely and I don't know if there is anything I can do about it.

Sorry if this isn't quite relevant (I'm a child, not a partner, after all) and I'm not implying anyone on here is codependent.

No, but there is a lesson to be learned in that our DC can form relationships based on what they have learned and it focuses the mind when it comes to how we allow them to interact even if our relationships with the abuser come to an end.

Now, a quandary of mine, if you don't mind.

X is egyptian. he is a muslim. I stopped eating pork when he moved in, as much as out of respect for him really, and DS (5) has been brought up so far (more or less) not eating Pork. the more or less thing is that if DS and I are eating out on a rare occasion and he said he wants bangers, gravy and mash then we order it, but i've always told him it's beef like we have at home. So far he's not known about the times where I have made this decision.

Now he said to his school, back at the end of Feb early March that 'Daddy's gone, so I can eat what I like'. We talked about it, he pleaded with me to let him eat pork, I sat him down, explained why the decision had been made, explained that I wasn't sure what to do and in the end said that I'd think about it until after Easter, but to continue on with everything as it is until then. He reluctantly accepted.

I explained to him that daddy wouldn't like it, that daddy doesn't eat it and that wouldn't be happy for him to do so. DS once came home and said I ate pork at school and X hit the roof (at me), i fudged it by saying that DS wouldn't have known pork if it came up and winked at him , so he's just saying it for effect, and the teachers guide him to the vegetarian option if there is pork in the meat dish. But this was the christmas lunch, so could be that it was pork sausages. anyway, got away with it at the time.

NOW, I worry that this is another way of keeping control of us. he and his religion/customs what have you have done us no favours at all. I will never go back there again, I'll not raise my son a muslim, nor to any religion tbh, so why should I adhere to HIS rules?

I've relaxed at home now, because I personally won't have some gobshite tell me what I can and can't eat from thousands of miles away, when I will never ever share a roof with him again.

AIBU to say that DS can make his own choice now? I told him that should he wish to follow the muslim faith when older, that he takes this choice now as his responsibility, and doesn't say to me that I didn't insist on him choosing not to eat it.

YANB at all U :)

when reading your post, I assumed that DS was muslem and you felt a duty to uphold his religious proscriptions. But, no? So give him a bacon sarnie

sorry! should have said, ask if he wants a bacon sarnie.

It's the new favourite British food, you know? (It was chicken tikka masala for a long time, so I guess it's up to DS whether he wants to move with the times )

I kind of do feel a duty, in that i know it's important to his dad, but even his dad isn't religious really, never prays, openly debunks the religion, totally lapsed. The only thing X doesn't do is eat pork.

But by the same token, X no longer has a say in my life, what i do, eat, say, or whatever else, when he gave himself permission to do so, he took gross advantage of that, and he's not entitled to do that any more. Sure he can give an opinion, just as anyone can, but I don't obey him. hee hee, thinking of taking the car over to Ireland to see my dearest friend I knew from Egypt over there this year, and he expressly said not to.

He has never ever done anything for DS, none of the work, no taking him out for fun, nothing so he has no say in raising him either.

I don't know if DS is old enough to take a decision like this, but I think he doesn't want to be different. He doesn't know any other single parent households (yet), his name is unique, he is an only child, and the kids have started making general comments about everything.

cheers garlic! I have to admit to falling in love with the pre-cooked crispy dry bacon slices you can buy in supermarkets for putting on salads or in BLTs. I haven't cooked bacon in donkey's years, so not very good at it yet, I do however make a killer Chicken Tikka Masala!

Can I bump this? I am feeling the need to talk about XP in a safe space. I just can't seem to keep up with everything lately and wanted a discussion/possible debrief. Sorry if this is a bit fragmented, some of it has been musings from my LJ (which is locked to a small list of people, but nobody who has experience of NPD) and some is just random thoughts from my head.

You may already know the girlfriend situation, I'll recap, XP got together with a new girlfriend 3 months after we split, within 48 hours it was "You're the one" "Found the love of my life" etc all over facebook. Trying (successfully) for a baby within the first week of their relationship. She already had a child from a previous relationship. Anyway they have split up now, so he's sofa-surfing because even his mum won't have him back home now. By some horrible twist he's currently occupying the sofa of a friend of his, whose girlfriend I became friendly with after we were both pregnant at the same time. I'm still good friends with her but never liked XP's friend. In fact they are splitting up at the moment as well so it's a huge mess.

Anyway, somehow he's managed to get my friend doing all his laundry, cooking and cleaning for him I don't think he's ever lived alone and done any of this for himself, always manages to find some woman to do it for him, even if she can't stand him! But the thing that is bothering me more is the way he's dealing with the now three children involved in his life. First there was his moaning on facebook about how he "just wants to be a real family, not a broken one" - and his way of dealing with this now seems to be ignore my (our) DS, there seem to be some contact issues with his ex-g's two as well in that he wants to see the new baby, but not the older child who isn't biologically his, this child calls him "Daddy" and adores him :(

Something which bothered me as well was that every time he ever refers to DS or his new baby in texts etc, he would never ever use their names but instead call them things like "the newborn" "little man" or "my son". So it was never "How is ?" but "How is my son?". I just thought this was a weird quirk until someone on my LJ said perhaps it is related to the family thing (which I got from one of these threads, I think - the thing being that Ns love the idea of having a perfect family and will draw you in with this picture they paint of the family life they want you to have together, especially as popular culture tells us men actively avoid marriage and children, but what they actually mean is that they want a domestic skivvy, sex on tap, perfect cereal box children to bring out at work occasions and be congratulated on, but to be spared the work and emotional investment which comes with a real family.) and perhaps the reason he uses these labels instead of calling people by their names is that he doesn't see them as people, but just as filling particular "roles" in his life/drama. I wondered if anyone else had experienced this?

Also, it seems his way of dealing with the breakup is to try and find the next victim naive young girl. Which is a complete HEADDESK moment for anyone else but looking at it through an N's perspective it makes sense, it's just sort of horribly fascinating to watch him doing it again and being able to do nothing to stop it. My friend described to me what sounds almost like grooming with one of her friends, she was trying to have a conversation with this girl and he kept pushing his face really close to her, even in between them to stare at her. And then when she fell asleep he just sat there stroking her hair and she didn't even know about this, which I found really really creepy. The wierdest thing is it seems to be working as she kissed him when drunk (though regretted it apparently). I think he's only interested in her because she has a car, and he doesn't at the moment.

Oh and the final thing is he seems to be either faking or attempting to give himself liver failure. He did this before some time around when DS was born. He will get really drunk and then start clutching around where his liver is (I assume anyway) and complaining of searing pains. Then for the next few days the "searing pains" will continue, but he'll refuse to go to the doctor and instead self-medicate with co-codamol and more alcohol. Or even if he does see the doctor he decides to ignore all the AA leaflets etc and decides he can just stop drinking by himself cold turkey.

And I'm going to bed, so I'll read replies tomorrow - sorry, the post was just so long it has tired me out and I've also only just realised how late it is!