NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Hi All,

I posted a while back about my exh and have been lurking ever since. When I read this thread it opened up a Pandora's box for me. After the summer shenanigans when my EXH refused to bring my DS home and I had to get a recovery order, I have been suddenly hit by a ton of bricks and feel floored by the level of what I now know to be abuse I endured for seven years with the bastard. We split up 10 years ago due to always walking around egg shells, being told everything was my fault, being chastised for wearing red nail varnish, clothes that were too tight, friends calling me all the time, not bathing in time for him coming back from work so that I would be fresh for my man. Oh Lord, the list is endless.

Throughout all this time I was made to feel the unreasonable one, the mouthy one, the stupid one and to this day I believed it. I met him when I was 18 and he was 22, we were together for seven years and these seven years have now sadly defined who I am today - a nervous, lacking in confidence and self esteem woman. I lack assertiveness and always feel that if I say no then I am an awful bitch. TBH I had never even analysed myself at all because I believed it to be true UNTIL I came to the relationships thread and read that it is emotional abuse. I think that is what has affected me badly that I loved and trusted this man and he unbeknown to myself abused my trust. I feel so angry and hurt and abused.

Even after we split he controlled and bullied me through our DS culminating in the 'kidnap' he did of our DS over the summer. Apparently this was because our DS got bullied at school and that was my fault, how I have no idea. I remember when he forced me to have an abortion when I was 20 and I cried my eyes out as I didnt want to do it but he managed to manipulate me to a point that I felt I was being unreasonable and only thinking of myself. Throughout or relationship we split so many times and he would promise to change and be mr nice guy, buy me loads of things until he wormed his way again into manipulating me. I wish I had known about Womens Aid then as each time I split I was too weak and always took him back. He accused me of poisoning him when he became sick; constantly told me that I was lucky to have him as him mum thought I was no good.

I ended up having a nervous breakdown at work last week and have been signed off for a week with PTSD, I just cant seem to handle all these things I have discovered. Also next month we are in court for a conciliation meeting re contact (was given residence) and I am dreading seeing him, so is my DC. He is going to speak with CAFCASS but at the moment he says he does not want to have any contact with his father ever again which is what he will communicate to CAFCASS. I know that EXH is going to twist it all again and say that I have manipulated our DS to say that sighs. I do not want any contact either, and at worst indirect contact via email. I have had enough of this man and his verbal abuse and control. I feel so stupid for having been with him so long and being duped.

I can identify with the legal issues thing, not easy!

Pm, am good in one way and failing in another, avoiding where once i would panic and run 2 do it ! Now rebelling! Health probs got me down feeling better about that now! Feel therapy getting me back intouch with my emotions, i withdrew due 2 trauma! Exmil a pain! Rang in response! She doesnt want 2 c kids, she wants 2 scapegoat or suck me!

Hello, m3. I am so sorry to hear about your breakdown - and I understand; the dawning of the truth is what caused mine as well. It's one of life's little jokes (haha) that we always seem to be faced with major negotiations at the very times when we feel most vulnerable. It's ghastly timing for you. But you can do it.

I'm taking a lot for granted here, but do you feel like you're battling all alone & it'll be a miracle if you manage to get through without crying/dying/wetting yourself/screaming? Please be assured there IS help and you ARE entitled to it. I'm unclear whether you've already called Woman's Aid. It would be a very good use of your week off, I think, to ring every possible helpline and make appointments where you can. You should be able to get more than a week off work. Ask your GP for a referral to your CMHT, it will serve you well in the llong run. If you haven't already been to the Citizens Advice Bureau, do. Remember you're having a health crisis - you're quite within your rights to go as slowly as need, and to inform others (employers, XH, the bank, whoever) that you need more time because of your health.

If you're already doing all that, good for you!

So how are things? Feel free to spill it here, it's what these threads are for :)

Mumofthree = I was emotionally abused by my family. When I had my realisation I felt a complete mug, and idiot for not seeing their behaviour for what it was. THen I got angry, then sad and carried on through the grieving process. Its all normal. Perhaps your nervous breakdown is due to you being away from him and your body and mind are now able to suddenly release all those pent up feelings and emotions, so although it may seem bad it could be the first step to recovery, if a hard one.

What support do you have in place? Womensaid would be able to offer support, I have always found talking and typing the best way of releasing my feelings and true thoughts and making connections. Other people can also validate your feelings which make you feel like you are not alone and are not going mad.

YOu have done a very brave thing leaving him, well done for seeing what he has done to you. YOu can get over this. Take it one day/one hour at a time. Regarding caffcass, I have no experience I'm afraid...all I would suggest is document what your children feel, take a statement from your ds about how he felt being taken from you etc, is it on police records him taking ds? You could also get a non molestation order from the courts if he is still bullying you...my solicitor said she had got one based on a ladies emotional abuse by her husband last week...so you can get the law behind you, it carries a 5 year prision term/fine. An occupation order means if he comes within a set distance of your property the police are legally obliged to arrest him, that carries a 5 year jail term too. Speak to womans aid, they will be able to advise you better than me.

On a final note, we are attracted to people who remind us of our family members/siblings...does your exp remind you of any family member?

Keep holding on, your not alone :)

timmyx

Morning ladies,

Thank you all for your feedback and support, it's brought more tears to my eyes just knowing that you ladies unfortunately also understand what I am going through. Itsghoul, sorry to hear about the taxi incident, how are you feeling today. It must be terrible having to deal with all those emotions, but we have to address them to be able to feel better again. Timmy I followed your other thread with trepidation and had to skip some pages to find out whether you had left, I was so scared for you and your DC. When I read you had left I then went back and re-read the whole thread. You are a brave woman and your children have certainly seen that you will move heaven and earth for them.

Your advice is very useful and I shall contact WA and speak with someone. It's just that it seems as if everything is surreal and I am looking into my own life.'I' m taking a lot for granted here, but do you feel like you're battling all alone & it'll be a miracle if you manage to get through without crying/dying/wetting yourself/screaming?' IGA spot on with that analysis, I do feel alone and that noone in RL fully understands how much this has hit me. My DH is extremely supportive but just does not understand how much suffering I had at the hands of exh, and yet I never ever felt I was being abused.

I made an error in my earlier post, I had a breakdown at work two weeks ago and the doctor gave me two weeks off. I went back on Friday as I am still feeling highly stressed and he signed me off for another two weeks so I am due to go back to work on the 28th - I think I will need longer than that tbh. I am so demoralised and even thinking that I should quit my job even though I really love my job. I just feel like I will not be able to cope. Timmy thanks for the info on the molestation order, did you get yours? When are you going for the occupation order? Good luck with that. I thought of applying for one based on the phone messages he left on my phone but they have now been automatically deleted although I had typed out everything contained in the voice messages. The only problem will be evidence.

I have seen a counsellor through my work, (entitled to four free sessions) the first one was last week and I felt out of my depth as in didnt know where to start. I feel so lost. Timmy I think I have always been drawn to me who I thought would offer me stability and security due to how I was raised. I grew up with my gran, my mum was a single parent and used to have a range of boyfriends which always made me feel uncomfortable as back then I was bullied a lot for having an unmarried mum and when I went to my mums on holiday ( a different city) I was always conscious that my mum had several boyfriends. So naturally I vowed that I didnt want that for my DC based on my own experience which on reflection has made me quite needy.

The growing up without my mum or my dad (I dont even know my dad) made me feel as if unwanted (although my mum provided everything for me) just that I wanted to be with her and could not understand why she didn't just take me from my gran (who I love dearly) and live with me. She also used to criticise me a lot, 'why dont you smile like so and so, why dont you lose weight, oh you are the top of your class but your class is full of dunderheads.' That sort of thing, so I think I have always felt inferior and unloved and eager to offer a stable environment for my DC with both parents. Does this make sense? I feel awful writing this about my mum because I think she made some bad choices when she was growing up and realises that now and is trying to make amends but sometimes I just feel like screaming at her in frustration that I needed this sort of attention when I was much younger, not now in my thirties. I was also fondled by one of her boyfriends when I was 11 and when I told her she just said something to brush it under the carpet. So Timmy, I have no idea why I was drawn to such an abusive man.

I am sorry that you had an abusive childhood Timmy, it really shapes your future doesn't it. I am sure we will rise above it but it will not be easy to do but is doable. I am also feeling very guilty for not being at work. Itsghoul, thanks for reinforcing to me that I am suffering a health crisis, I need to keep on hammering that in my head. I do believe that I suffer from this 'nice girl syndrome' of trying to please everyone to my detriment. e.g. on Friday the doctor signed me off and I went in to work, why I have no idea, absolutely stupid of me because HR just told me to go home and that the doctor is not mad for signing me off. Why had I even gone in? I wish I could answer that one.

Anyway ladies, I am off to my second appointment with the counsellor and will post again when I come back.

Thank you so much x

mumofthree - from what you say of your childhood with your mother, she was emotionally abusive. No two ways about it. And yes they can try to make amends but like you said its a bit late now. What helps is if they actually listen to what you say and acknowledge what you went through without stopping you or questioning you or denying your experiences. I find disturbing the fact you were molested by one of her bf's and she 'brushed it under carpet'. Would you do that if that were you? Of course not, you would listen and get shot of bf and report him to the police! Bit of a contrast in styles...which is better for the child?

When you feel ready please go read the Stately homes thread for adult children of abusive parents. And if you say to yourself 'it wasn't as bad as this' you should be typing your first post!

Anyway to where you are right now. I don't think courts will take recordings anyway, mine was just a verbal statement to the police/solicitor so I'm sure they will have no problem taking your typed notes. If you need a non mol order you will have to swear in anyway so validating your typed phone message. And when I say swear in, you go to what looks like a post office counter, you sign your statements and they give you a card to read 'i do swear' etc so nothing scary, quite funny really.

If it is an emergency non mol your exp will not have to be there, if it is a contested one it will take about 2 weeks and will need him there. It is not a court room, its a family court room, its an office with the judge in a suit and a couple of witnesses that sit and say nothing. You go in with your solicitor and I presume the solicitors sit next to each other at the desk and the contestants either side (hopefully!).

Sometimes seeing a councellor doesn't work esp if you don't connect. And if you dont feel you should be there as you don't feel as if you were abused you can have problems knowing where to start. See how it goes, you may want to go private if you can afford it. Also there will be some good self help books out there, I find them quite validating, to have the madness I've experienced written in a book! Very reassuring.

Anyway, recovery will take as long as it takes, there's no hurrying it, and its a long process with lots of steps back and lots forward got to go!

Hi Timmy, thanks for responding - you are spot on with the analysis on my mother. I think that everything goes back to how I felt when I was young as I am sure it has shaped who I am today. When I was young I was never confident, felt as if my mum did not care about me because if she did why didn't she live with me and so forth. From when I was born I lived with my gran until I turned 11 then I went to boarding school. After boarding school I lived in my own flat and only started to rebuild my relationship with my mum when I was about 24.

I still find it annoying when she tells me what to do as I always want to say where were you when I needed this advice when I was small. I have felt so alone when I was growing up, being an only child and all. She now seems to want to spend all her living moments with me and my DC as in I am her best friend which can be quite stifling. She used to do a lot of guilt tripping until I just stopped falling for it and she does not do it that much anymore. I feel that she treats me like a child and this really gets on my nerves. Well this should be in stately homes. When you said that you will probably think oh mine wasn't so bad, that is exactly how I think right now. My desire to please people and be seen as the nice girl stems from that I reckon

Hi Ladies, it's mumofthree, I have namechanged as a number of people know my nickname in RL

Hi fiestychick, good name!

Its abuse, she's abusing you now. My mother does that needy thing, one of the main reasons I broke contact because I already was going to have one baby, didn't need 3 toddlers coming along too. And nothing is more infuriating than being told what to do as an adult by someone who did not give a stuff about your feelings as a child. She does sound like my mother.

Definately go on Stately homes, you will find a home there :) everyone starts out tentatively at first, but once you start venting...it may help you to cut down on contact with your mother if this is obstructing your thinking clearly. I always found my thoughts dwelling on my mother/sister/father after I had seen them and thousands of hours of imagined confrontations with them...its a waste of brain space :).

How are you doing now? Are you physically/mentally any different to yesterday? Any realisations or reactions to talking about this?

xx

Hi Timmy,

Thought I would name change to show that this chick is now ready to bite grr... I posted in Stately homes, thanks for the tip and I felt so good after venting all my thoughts. Sad to hear that so many adults going through the same but good in that we can help each other.

I am physically better but mentally still in a fog as in I keep on wondering what I should be feeling or thinking off. I reckon that I am not allowing myself to think about the situation and hoping it will just go away which it wont. I also have court with my narc next Tuesday and I am as nervous as anything as I do not have legal representation. It is to do with contact, my DS12 does not want any contact at all so will be fighting his corner.

Pleased that today went well for you and that on Monday you will be home. Dont worry about what state it will be in, just give yourself and your DD's a massive hug from all of us for fighting for yourself and for them, and move on with your life. He will obviously be upset because he can no longer manipulate and control you.

Well done

Hi feisty :)

Glad you got onto stately homes, helped me no end just to vent and get acknowledgment and validation. I no longer post because I feel I have moved on since I broke contact with them, in fact felt better on one level as soon as I did that, the guilt was crippling though for my dd1 and 'leaving' my family, they act like small children so you do feel cruel when you leave them to it. They have been back in contact, as I knew they would when they heard of the break up of marriage. Just ignored, don't need them confusing the situation. They and my uncle are convinced I need them. Strongly suspect its vice versa. My family have a very healthy dose of narcarsism, so I had previous traing for my h :) lucky me!

Don't they say that you can get pstd from a narsarsitic relationship? Sure I read that somewhere. Just feel and think, type it all out even if you don't post, the more you get out of your head, I find, the more space for new thoughts and realisations. Keeping it in your head without anyone elses (healthy) input is not good. Not thinking about things is also good at times, lets your subconcious deal with it when you mentally don't feel strong enough to deal with your emotions. It will come in time.

Just realised today is Tuesday!! You can do this, you are doing it for DS so that will make you stronger. Write down notes and speak direct to judge. Have you anything written from DS as to how he feels about it all? That would be good for the judge to see. What time is case??

feisty, I really need to thank you for what you wrote on the www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1074635-Manchild-tantrum?pg=2 'Manchild Tantrum' thread]]. You said:
I never even realised I was being abused until summer this year. We split up ten years ago. I have started having flashbacks etc

I'm sad to hear you're going through this - and incredibly grateful that you said so! It's 7 years or so since I left my bullying employer and since I last saw XH. I've only just begun to see (yesterday, in fact) what a huge proportion of my current problems are flashback responses to what happened then. I can't really write much more, as I don't yet know what to do with this information - am thinking of starting by opening a bottle of wine - and haven't got my head around it much.

I feel very angry at all the therapists I've seen over the years, who haven't noticed this for me. At least, if they did, they sure didn't pass it on. I am shocked that abusive manipulators can so completely destroy a personality, with such long-term effects. And I'm FURIOUS at the general cultural idea that abuse targets should 'deal with it' or 'communicate better'. Maybe that's just my perception - I'm feeling quite abandoned atm!

If you hadn't written your post, I might already be questioning whether it's possible I could still be suffering reactions to things that happened so long ago. You know what? I bloody am. And I'm MAD!!!

Hi, I thought I would post on here as I felt it was more relevant than statley homes, to discover your post Grace!

I went to see the physchologist today and sadly I had some bad news a few days ago which triggered me and gave me panic attacks which I have not had for over a year, through the session I realised that she was awakening me to ptsd or something, so I had a google and it looks like I may have complex ptsd, I didn't mention it to her at the time, I was all over the place that particular session, since I have been very tearfull, blurred vision etc...and almost on the verge of a panic attacks remembering it all, sadly I am being dragged back to the very thing that caused the trauma in the first place and again I am trapped... again

anyone else had this?

I think i might have had this after coming out of an abusive relationship that was also sexually abusive. It was not diagnosed officially but suggested by my counseller . I dont know if this was correct but the symptoms i experienced were -

Horrendous anxiety , my heart would race and i would shake really badly , sometimes i would think i was going to faint.
No appetite , difficulty sleeping and jolting awake .
Could not stop crying , to the point i did not trust myself to go out in public as i would frequently burst into tears.
Everything seemed very loud and overwhelming , i would jump at small noises as though they presented a huge threat.

The emotional side of it was the real problem. I felt detatched from myself and everyone else , as though i was not really here .
I didnt feel real .
An overwhelming crippling sense of fear and danger . Everywhere. I didnt feel safe.
Horrific dreams , action replays , as such.
An overpowering feeling of rage that i have never felt before , and wouldnt wish to again.
Overwhelming feeling of sorrow and greif.
Thoughts of suicide and self harm although i had never ever thought this before .
Fantasys of revenge ,
The feeling of wanting to be " healed ".
I was desperate for comfort . Sleep was the only escape from this . I would often wake in the morning and groan that i had to do another day .

Whatever it was , it wasnt pleasant . How are you feeling ?

ItsGrace your post brought tears to my eyes. I can understand you feeling mad because that is how I feel at the moment. Last Tuesday was court re contact and seeing my ex narc left me terrified. As I am representing myself he launched into a verbally abusive tirade saying I was a compulsive liar and that I had agreed for him to kidnap our son. I was so frightened and alarmed at his blatant bullying and lying that I was completely floored.

In essence he blamed me for not bringing our DS home, even blamed the judge for court running late and also CAFCASS for apparently not being capable of speaking with our DS properly. The arrogance of the bastard. Anyway judge saw through him and ordered indirect contact for six months with a review next year.

After this I have completely regressed and feel as if his behaviour in court made me relive the hell I went through when we were together. I have been crying my eyes out, anxiety attacks - a complete nervous wreck. I am also so angry that I was abused and never knew it. I have realised so much that the Unknown abuse has shaped who I am today eg I always felt the need to justify things as I felt people never believed me when in fact they did. Dealing with the newly discovered abuse and ptsd is really more than I could handle. Yesterday I was crying desperately and on Tuesday, just not knowing what to do with my anger, frustration and sadness with DH at work. In the end I just calmed myself down as I had to do the school run.

Itstimmy hope you are well and thanks for thinking of me and court. You are doing brilliantly. Well done for ignoring your family, must have been difficult for you but you certainly do not need any people who will disrupt your recovery when you are doing so well.

I am wondering and terrified what my narc is planning to make my life miserable as he threatened why he can't focus on his new family is beyond me. Why me eh? On the positive my DS is healing well and still waiting for therapy sessions. Oh in court when I mentioned the impact of his actions on our DS he burst out laughing obviously implying that I was lying about it. The judge and cafcass looked on in shock and told him it was not funny. After lying about our supposed agreement for the kidnap the judge then asked him why if we agreed on it our DS had told cafcass that he failed to return him home and that he had told him there was nothing I. Could do to help him. He then quickly backtracked saying that all he had done was out of love and his intentions were good because the city we live in is unsafe. Wtf as if I can ever be responsible for the bad people on this earth, what a fucking moron. He had hundreds of pictures to show the judge to demonstrate his love and that our DS has so much fun there etc. In essence his aim was to portray me in as bad a light as possible and I think the judge saw through it. He basically just gave my ex a rope to hang himself with and he did just that. When DS was picked up by the police his father took his phone from him as punishment for texting me and I knew he would bring it back on the court day and do a grand gesture of the concerned parent bringing his DS his forgotten phone, oh what a doting father - complete bollocks imo. He also kept on waving his stupid phone in court saying there was damning evidence on there of what a sickening and awful mother I was. Laughable really.

IGA I am surprised that your therapists haven't made the connection yet that the abuse you suffered seven years ago is affecting you now. Its post trauma in a way. It is quite scary that you loved someone blindingly and they chose to abuse that trust and basically take you for a ride. My counsellor has been excellent in showing me that the way I feel about things is down to him and the fact that I never knew about it or addressed it plus the kidnap this summer have taken its toll.

Occupational Health recommended to employer that I needed at least another four weeks off. The way I feel right now is as if I can't ever work again and also mad with myself for feeling so weak and allowing him to still control my life if that makes sense. This has been one of the toughest times of my life but certainly no tougher than if I was still in a relationship with him so at least there is a positive

Anyway ladies massive hugs to you all and hang in there. We will rise above this slowly but surely

Dignified thanks for posting. Those symptoms are me right now. I keep waking up at night fearful

MummieH sorry about your bad news and that it has brought back your ptsd. I know you will get over it, its not easy but the same way you got over it last time when it seemed so impossible will happen again, even if it seems undoable. I promise you. Getting over the abuse is so emotionally draining and soul destroying but I guess we have to go through it all to heal. Thinking of you

fiesty I can't even read your posts, as that is the very thing I think I have cptsd over, it went on for a year and a half in court, and six months with solicitors before...

Thank you for your moving post, feisty. I'm so glad the judge saw through him (they must see more than their fair share of these wankers in a year's work!) I'm not the right person to offer you advice - but it will surely be helpful for you to go back over your hearing: not focusing on what DickBrain did, said and meant - but what the court saw, heard and understood. They validated you, do you see that?

You were right in that my "copiness" (hollow laugh) seems to have fooled my therapists quite well, even though I was saying "I've been abused, this is the result". I don't want to put them down because I didn't even realise I had been, and was being, abused before I started therapy. Most of them were a bit too quick to make assumptions, though, imo.

I was in a comparable position to yours wrt work. In the end - after more than 2 years of being on "special terms" and reduced pay - they gave me a much better job, then made me redundant and paid for a month at The Priory. Not a bad outcome - it was what I wanted when the whole farrago kicked off - but, by then, I was totally broken. Based on what I learned from it, my advice would be: [1] Use the formal complaints procedures coldly, ruthlessly and efficiently; [2] Run away if it's too much - there are no bravery awards in the loony bin! There's now a lot of good advice on bullyonline.org.

I couldn't agree more with your posts explaining how childhood abuse conditioned you to become a target for abuse in later life. I continue to be amazed at how little recognition of this there is in so-called support forums (and amongst therapists, apparently!) Thank you so much for your support. Sending you mine, too :)

mummiehunnie, I really feel for you :( Please, please, be very kind to yourself. IT IS OKAY TO CARE about this stuff. You do not need to take the weight of everyone else's problems, fears & sheer fuckery! Easier said than done, I know ... please do your best to love & protect yourself and your kids. Everyone else can go to hell on a bus xx

Mum's been very nice to me lately. Am waiting to see what she wants! I'm learning ... better late than never Have you managed to get rid of yours yet?

ItsGrace, thank you for your inspirational post where you stated that 'they validated you', I am going to keep this going over and over in my mind. I just am having such a time even accepting that a stranger has believed my story and I am not making things up or manipulating anything as I was always made to believe. It is frustrating when therapists who are supposed to help you fail to do so appropriately, it is very difficult opening up and usually people will laugh to cover their nervousness but that does not mean that the laughter means they are fine. I hope you have a better therapist now.

My therapist pointed out that because I had low self esteem already because of my childhood, I attracted a man who also had low self esteem; however the difference was that the man I chose decided to bully me and control me in an effort to make himself feel better about himself. He became the abuser and I became the victim. A spot on analysis imo.

Mummieh, I hope you are feeling better today. I totally understand about the strain of court hearings where the ex bullies you again. It is as if you are constantly reliving the abuse and the abuser totally enjoys it. I feel that I will not be able to work until the next hearing is over as I am just so concerned and worried about the unknown, what will he claim next time, what allegations of bad mothering will he come up with. I honestly cannot take anymore of it. Next time by hook or crook I need representation as I cannot confront him again, ever, I just cant. Next year is a directions hearing and I am so worried that the judge might decide to allow contact at his father's house again as he said that he wanted to sort things out for Easter holidays and what not. If they insist on any contact at all then I will just stick to my guns for supervised contact only.

IGA, good to hear that mum's being very nice. Maybe she does not want anything and wants to make up for everything that went wrong. I know my mum does and I do love having her around (although she does wind me up quite a bit). I think she realises that she messed up big time when I was growing up.

Lots of virtual support your way too ladies

fiesty, I started to read your response and the things you are worried about your ex started me off in palpitations as I have similar worries to your first few, so I stopped reading, right now I am going to not read your posts, I hope someone else can go through it with you x x x big hugs to you x x x

Grace, did you hear from the mother?

I feel odd with mine, it is strange, the bond is broken, I get sucked in from time to time and share a bit too much. Mostly I am quiet in the phone calls, they are on my terms, and she asks me to see her and I don't answer that. She has gotten closer to her long term partner since I withdrew, so she is fine and it is evident they are closer, I am fine with that also, suits me.

bumpted into someone I once knew, not sure what to call them, a mum who had a child in dd's class, who I had coffee with, went to her 40th birthday, and went to an evening class with.... I thought she was my friend, she was not it was evident when ex left and when I needed her help with a statement for court, I gave her evil stares for about a year or would not look at her. Then at a school concert there was a spare seat near me and she said I am not sure if she wants me to sit by her, I said ok, and was cool with her and things were a little better... I saw her at an open evening at school a few months ago and smiled, said nothing, then saw her at the supermarket today, she came up to me and i smiled and we chatted. She gave me a very concerned strained how are you, not the normal type, she was shocked when I said good how are you? She and I exchanged information and it was like old times nearly.... then she asked me how were things I said good, she wanted more info, I used to have loose boundaries.... she asked how did the house go, I said nothing she said are you still there, I said yes, silence, then she went quiet waiting for info none arrived, I could tell she was confused.... then later I commented I had not been to that supermarket for a long time, she said am I avoiding people, I said no and explained why, then my mother came up, she may know something or it may have been innocent, I said she had cancer recently and was ok, she said where, I said it is not my business to say where, she looked surprised again, then she asked how was she I said she had a few ops and it was all ok, she asked when it was i said a few months ago... then I added that I had not spoken to mother for about nine months before, and acutally had not dropped a lot of people in my life, she went quiet then she said it was sad, I said not, as I was happier without them in my life.. which I am... in a weird way happier!!! then I added well people took advantage and I was a fool for allowing them to, she went quiet she had taken advantage of my good nature many times.... then we waved good bye and I said i will see her a school thing one day no doubt.... strange.. and pleasing to see how much better my boundries are and how I can hold them with someone who knew me before, which is harder then with new people... I definatly confused her with the boundries and being ok etc... one thing I said about someone she told me had changed things and then gone back to what they had done in the first place, I smiled and said so many people think the grass is greener and it is not.... just wanted to share that with you..... Grace, what is causing you to find things hard right now?

Feisty, I had a knot in my stomach just reading what you wrote about the court experience. I felt the same way going to court and still do (exH likes to use the court system as his personal bat to beat me with)

I recently had the chance to read his perspective and that of his beloved mama on me and our relationship, and I am gasping -- don't even know where to begin with the written response that's due Friday, and still going through draft after draft of it because of the flabbergasting twistedness of it all. This is my second night wrestling with it. Spent a sleepless night last night with my brain in turmoil, and it looks as if tonight will be no different.

He is even more disturbed than I thought he was. Like 150% moreso, and I thought he was a headcase even back then when I formed my judgement.

And his mother is a malicious cow. I always suspected there was a third party in out relationship (I don't call it a marriage) and I can see clearly how the two of them are the real couple and always were. The man is delusional, vicious, clearly desperate for his mother's approval and trying so desperately to reassure her that he really only loved her -- it defies description and beggars belief. I read descriptions of their conversations helpfully supplied by his mother (part of the Catholic annulment process). GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Now I know what those awkward silences were about when I would walk in on them in the kitchen when we visited her house.

I had the great good fortune to have been listened to and believed by the therapists I went to -- it makes such a difference. I can't for the life of me understand what exH spent so much money on psychiatrists for or what he talked about on his visits over the years.

MummieH, so sorry that my posts resulted in a negative reaction for you - I hope you are feeling better now.

Math - the realisation that they are even more loony and twisted than we thought is quite alarming. Having to face that in court surely requires nerves of steel. Do you have anyone helping you with your statements. Anything we can do to help? Hope you managed to sleep better last night and that you managed to go through the statement and respond logically.

My ex also seems to be a mummys boy who is desperate for her approval. Funny that my DS commented that he thought his mum was in on the plan to kidnap him as she gave him a lot of money when they went to see her which she had never done before.

My therapist mentioned that from what I said it seemed as if the relationship I had with exh was like father daughter relationship wherein I looked for approval and to please him. She was spot on, when she said that I thought it might be far fetched but then I thought about it some more and realised that because I never met my dad and don't know if he is alive or not that maybe I looked for a relationship with someone who was like a father figure. Someone who I thought my dad should have been like. I am still digesting that point. I really do like my therapist, she is helping a whole lot.

All the best ladies x

Do narcissists have weaknesses?