NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

How are you? Hope you're sleeping. This must be a huge shock.

Grace ,much warmth and love to you.

Please don't carry this on your own today.Can you contact someone in RL ? - WA,GP,Rape Crisis -
(((((hugs)))))

Grace, what a shock! Thank you for sharing! I can only imagine what you are going through! What rl help are you enlisting right now!

I want to share that I now realise my selfworth was wrapped up in my ex husband, if a man loved me then i wasnt worthless!

Just want to add, law states children have a right to contact with willing parents! Even personality disordered abusive druggies, contact centres offer children a safe environment 4 such contact!

Thank you, people :) I've rung the Met, who were lovely and told me Worboys didn't have any scary diseases - and won't be out of prison anytime soon. They are still collecting evidence, to bring out when he appeals for a reduced sentence. He was given 'indeterminate' life, meaning he can be kept inside forever.

I checked through my diaries for that period ? there was nothing directly relevant. One thing I discovered, though, was how frequently I switched to soft drinks before getting rat-arsed. I was more responsible than I have believed. Now I suspect my drinks were spiked at other times, too. How come none of my therapists ever picked up on this? How come they were as quick to blame me as I was myself??

mh, that's a VERY important discovery! Congratulations. Now it's all about building your self-respect, self-love and self-worth, isn't it? You're fab, you know :)

wow Grace, that took courage, and now it makes so much more sense to you! Blimey, life never stops surprising!

How awful Grace .

Thank you, dignified :) Last night I felt a bit weirded out by it; I needed quite a long think. I was feeling I should have more anger and/or distress about it. Fact is, though, I remember nothing after having the drink and the police told me that most of their witnesses had been sexually assaulted rather than raped. The only rape conviction they had was for an 18-year-old virgin

I'm not saying by any means that unwanted penetration is 'better' one way than another, nor that it's okay if the victim can't remember!!! For me personally, though, it has filled in a few missing pieces from a period of my life that was traumatic all round. I wrote in Stately Homes that, unexpectedly, it has served as hard evidence that things were done TO me, which WERE abuse. In a peculiar way this discovery validates many of my other bad experiences - relieves me of quite a chunk of my self-blame. For me, then, it's not the hideous revelation it must have been for many others. The police reckon 400 assaults is a conservative estimate! They prosecuted 19 offences and have a further 64 on file. I hope they succeed in keeping him locked up forever.

Hugs grace!

Grace i bet thats the tip of the iceburg .

Ive been thinking a lot about this sort of thing lateley . I can remember a few instances , some from when i was a very small girl , about men being inapropriate , and lots from being a young teenager . Luckily nothing ever happened , but i think it was more luck than anything else. Ive been feeling quite angry about some of it lateley . im outraged what happened to you Grace . Are you tempted to write to him or anything ?

Im not feeling very nice about men at the moment .

I get angry about male intrusion on female bodies, too, dignified. All those guys who pinch bums, squeeze tits, stick hands up skirts - HOW FUCKING DARE THEY??!! I batted off several attempted rapes in my teens & twenties - having been (ironically) very well trained by my father. But, also, I allowed unwelcome social touching because - well, it's churlish to object, isn't it

After my 20-year-old niece told me about her sexually & verbally abusive boss (my evaluation, not hers, sadly), I send her a copy of Why Does He Do That? I wonder what she made of it!

Worboys? No, the only letter I'd want to write would be a fully incriminating statement to the police. Unfortunately, I can't. I hope the programme did bring more evidence to light: while not wishing fresh trauma on his victims - the more serious incidents they can prosecute, the longer he'll stay inside. And prisoners aren't very nice to sex offenders

I allowed unwelcome social touching because - well, it's churlish to object, isn't it

Yes , it is , unless you like being accused of being frigid , a cock tease , a drama queen ect .Bizareley other women often support this idea too , often minimizing it. It fucks me right off

Ive put up with more than my fair share of unwanted touching too , they are scary bastards and know you dont like it and its not welcome. I dont know if im just being a baby but earlier on today i was thinking of even 1 man i know who doesnt think its okay to make shit remarks or jokes about women , or try it on , or gawp at you , or tell you how unhappily married he is , or think you should cook for him or wont iron ect cos its womens work ( you get the gist ). I think theyre all twats lateley. Bit much i know but its how i feel at the minuite . Im sick to fuck of having to fend men off , either sexually or otherwise as they insist on pushing limits.

Can he be prosecuted for other attacks Grace ?

Yep, they're keeping the 64 on file and actively seeking further complaints. When he appeals for early release, they will bring out some more. They couldn't prosecute all 83 at the time, or the court would still be in sesion! They "want" (the police guy was careful to put this the right way) a second definite rape to come forward, as that will put him away for another very long time. Just in case any other WORBOYS TAXI RAPE victims happen on this post, the Met's helpline number is 0800 121 4441. They ring you back and are lovely.

Is this a good time to remind you - there are good people out there, male and female! The majority, in fact ...

Btw, I share your dismay at other women telling you not to be so uptight, or he didn't mean anything, when some half-cut oik decides to invade your body. I'm happy to say none of my friends have done this (we have some funny stories about it ) but, yes, it happens.

I prefer to employ shame. It's worked against me long enough, may as well get some benefit ... my proudest moment was grabbing the hand that was inside my knickers, on a crowded tube, raising it above our heads and booming "WHOSE HAND IS THIS?!"

Thats awful Grace . But good on you , what did he do ? I just noticed an article saying something like 1 in 3 schoolgirls have been harassed or groped in school. This has happened to mine several times and other girls laugh it off , in fact , some of the other girls are definateley flattered if its a popular boy whos doing the groping.

I think im feeling a bit ugh about men at the moment because of several things , i met with ex narc the other day to sign some paperwork . He took the opportunity to start ranting and made a really hurtfull comment about the dcs. I pointed out it was really hurtfull and he then accused me of twisting everything , he bets everyone else tells me that as well , im awful ect rant rant rant. Its bullshit and i didnt take it on , but i felt like punching him . I also realised i was , not scared , but aprehensive about seeing him .

Im pretty much outraged that he feels he has a right to do this sort of thing . Arsehole. The choices are to stay quiet during his absurd rantings or correct it . If i let him rant he works himself up into a frenzy , or if i object , no matter how calmly , theyll be an explosion. Hes a cheeky fucker.

Also , remember stay at mine or ill sulk man ? I bumped into his parents who were more than cool with me . Again not a big deal but hes obviously give them some shit story about how awful i am , and again , i know why , easier to blame me than tell them the truth , but annoying all the same .

My " freind " also apologised , seemingly genuineley , but im not sure if i want to resume things there to be honest .

Hi D, sorry you had a nasty time with your ex..feeling like punching him ,and recognising you weren't scared sounds like a good - if uncomfortable response,though!

You are right,it is outrageous that he (they all) feel he has a right to continue to behave that way. I never managed to keep quiet with my ex and would eventually explode myself - "proving" to him that I was the one at fault...same old crap.

Sounds like further evidence (as if needed) that you are well rid of any contact with sulky knobber.His parents can p* off.

Think you are right to be cautious with the "friend" too....could well be a genuine apology,but by no means evidence that she won't be eve worse next time - if she is an N,you know what to expect.

I am also feeling a bit down on men - certainly on my prospects of ever meeting one like so many are describing on Grace's thread,and the "balancing" one....

Where do these people hang out? I used to suspect that women who talked in such positive terms about their p's were probably making compromises that I would not be prepared to make.....but that was in the days when I was blithely tolerating xp,and thinking I was lucky to have him/trying to "sort myself out" so that I could make it work etc..

So,having switched the lights on,got rid, de constructed that reality AND started to deal realistically with my despicable parents....oh yeah,and started to accept my lot as a single mum of too many to count... what now...

Frankly,I'm jealous ( of healthy women with lovely dh's and happy families).And hugely cynical and disillusioned ....

I realise it is important to take things slowly,be positive,focus on myself and my dc and count our blessings...I do those things,mostly.....relentlessly...?!!

But...but..but...

Hi Pm , thanks for replying .
I can stay quiet with him mostly and nod along , but occasionally i just want to smash his face in . He knows full well what hes doing , and i think who the fuck do you think you are !!.
I know why , that hes busy living in his fantasy world , and any criticism , or refusal to beleive provokes a shame response , ie , a tantrum , but i get sick to death of this fat wobbly little man thinking he can yell at me , outwit me , or have the balls to tell me what i think or feel . Bottom line is he can still push my buttons and i have to battle with myself not to " defend " myself from his bullshit .

I dont think i do want to persue things with this " freind " , it wasnt something that was said in the heat of the moment it was a 2 hour sulk . And she is a blamer , everything is everybody elses fault sometimes . I think it was a tester to be honest. Anyway , thats enough grumbling from me . How are things with your Ds ? Have you managed to get him into a school ?

Hi all

May I join?

H soon to be exh I have always thought of as aspergers/npd. I was abused by my family and he helped me part from them. At the same time I wanted to part from him as I could see how he was controlling me, but then I brushed it off and carried on as we had a child together, now two. Reading the controlling link he ticks boxes in nearly every category. I can't believe I've been abused again, getting a bit tired of it now.

Anyway, he threatened to hit me last saturday, I left on the monday with the girls and my cat and i'm due to go for a non molestation order tomorrow, he will get it handdelivered by solicitors tomorrow aft (if all goes well). So far all I have had from him is about 5 texts, most asking for the car. Not about me or girls.

So tomorrow I am expecting all hell to break out. I am just a bit shakey about going to see a judge to do this. Scared of how he will react. I feel bad as I don't want to spring this on him after a week of silence. But feel I have no option. I'm worried if he will act in the interests of the girls or will just think of himself. I'm worried he will get revenge on me or try to get control of me back. Usually when a relationship ends he goes straight out and is happy to start another relationship. That is fine but worried because we have children he will act differently.

So please can I post tomorrow for support?

thanks for listening and sorry for not responding to anyone elses posts!

timmyx

Hi d, pmsl @ "fat wobbly little man" - hold that image whenever he starts with his crap...

I think you're wise re your friend...avoid all n's...

My ds has been in his new school a fortnight now ands is very much more settled..I think he got a shock,spending all that time with his Dad! He is very clingy with me - quite regressed at times,and seems worried that I might become ill,or stressed !!

Having said that,I do have to keep a tight rein on the boundaries.He has firm bedtimes and no second chances,and loses privileges as soon as there's any hint of attitude...so fingers crossed....he has a male teacher who he really likes - has said :" Mr * * never shouts at anyone,even if he's cross,but everyone does what he says.cos they like him" so I think that has been good for him.

As you know,as soon as one settles down ,a vacancy is created for bad behaviour....so they've all had their moments lately...but that's life I guess.....

timmy Welcome!!! I have followed your thread without posting,as didn't feel I could add to the excellent support others were giving.But I am in awe of your courage and attitude.You have come such a long way,so quickly.
This thread has been my main support with leaving and coming to terms with my xp,who is a textbook narc.It is a great source of information and advice ,too.

You are doing absolutely the right thing going straight for the NM Order.When I threatened my x with this,he disappeared,and has never been heard of since - despite always having made such a big deal out of his regard for my other dc's fathers',and how he himself is such a hero ,unlike them etc...

I hope this is what your h does.But be prepared for a nasty fight - I still am.
And do post here,as much as you need.I am around during the day tomorrow and will keep an eye out for you...and I am sure others will be along soon who will echo this.

Pm glad things have improved with ur ds x

Thanks pinemartina

Sum it up, judge having read statement from me thinks h is a bully and if you stand up to bullies they turn out to be wimps. I don't think he realises how godlike my h believes himself to be...you know narc...he holds his own beliefs so firmly he will have no argument against them. He seems himself at the apex of men, fit, very good looking, never wrong (but would not admit to that one). I don't think he will be the wimp the judge thinks he will be, he's underestimated him...but judge seems a bit biased towards me so that is good...just hope h does not argue black is white....

Welcome timmy. I too follow your other thread and posted a couple of times. Your ex sounds like a narc - at least has strong traits. They are horrible people and they are horrible traits in anyone.

PM so glad ds is in a new school. That at least is one major worry dealt with. Well done. H is getting very gobby! I went to see the nursery he starts at in January and it's lovely. He won't be able to act like king of all he surveys there though - he will have to make new friends as well as deal with 'teachers'.

He KEEPS coming into my bed at night but I've just given up now as was getting so exhausted trying to make him go back into his. Now I just haul him in and go back to sleep.

Made some hummus and sausages for tea!

grace you are lovely. And what a life you have led! You should team up with WWIFN and write a help book together!

timmy - it's good that you got a response like that from the judge....your h does sound like a narc.Let's hope the judge has met some before,and knows what you could be up against...

The judge could well be right,maybe he will turn out to behave like a wimp and back off...it does happen....on the other hand,he might well argue that black is white - at the same time as swearing that white is black....Ua is right,they are horrible people...

Ua - lol at H being gobby! You never know,he may well be confident enough to be king at nursery - he's bright enough! Don't blame you hauling him in at night - especially now it's colder...

mummiehunnie - thanks! How are you!

Grace - I agree with Ua - good idea!

Unlikelyfangazonian - thanks, I really need to check up on the traits, my parents and sister have strong narc tendancies as well as a bit of borderline, borderlines I think can be more explosive when you try to get away.

Pinemartina- judge must have met a narc by now. H is definately one to argue black is white! Just like my family...I could never argue with them you just give up having an open opinion, got to be the same with h! Just was in denial...for last couple of years I've just sat and done a nodding dog...so much easier than an egobrusing put down....

Wow, thank you, UA & PM!!
Hmm, now there's an idea! Wonder what WWIFN would think about that ...