NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

I know that everyone has weaknesses but if a Narcissist doesn't ever seem to show any vulnerabilities, how do you know?

Obviously, they need a 'supply' so that is a weakness and once they have lost their current supply they need to find a replacement. But, what about vulnerabilities they may have within a relationship as a person? eg, their partner may be a bit too kind-hearted for their own good. But what kind of weaknesses (don't know how else to class them) has anyone found in their ex-partner when they were with them?

Hi treelights, I am struggling to think of them as 'weaknesses' now that I know that it was more abuse and manipulation. One definite weakness he had was that everything he did had to be agreed to by his mum. Another thing was that he was a right cry baby, constantly crying his eyes out if I so much as said I was not happy or wanted to end the relationship such that I would say okay one last chance because I felt like a right cow. Sorry I am not of much use to you right now as my mind is in turmoil, but I did not want to leave you unanswered. Are you ok

one weakness I noticed was the removal of the mirror and exposing them, that is very dangerous and it drives them into a narc rage at you to descredit you, they are so practiced they will always win the battle of public show!

Do you mean the public image to the world? What about personal 'weaknesses'. I don't mean like impatience, things like that, I am referring to vulnerabilities people have that they would only maybe reveal to their partner. Are there any?

Both mine (and my mum) are vain and take criticisms about their appearance very much to heart. From what I understand, Narcissism develops as a sort of cover-up to profound insecurity - so, yes, there are plenty of weaknesses that you can use to win co-operation. Another way of putting that, of course, is 'narcissistic supply'. Failure to provide it provokes rage, as mh said.

They hate, hate, hate being exposed. On the rare occasions where the full weight of due process and social rejection can be used to rip away the facade, they short-circuit. I'm thinking of Robert Maxwell. I was hoping to achieve that against my evil boss, but ended up with a partial result and damaged myself more than him :(

Math, you've done a fantastic job of using due process to protect you & yours so far. I understand you're going through the horror or realisation yet again just now - poor you! But remember how good you are at drawing your lines firmly. Keep it up. Good luck. x

Just seen your last, treelights. Yes, there's plenty they will (seemingly) only reveal to you - from past crimes to childhood miseries & self-doubts. To your Narc, these are unique and special hurts that single them out as more suffering, more deserving, than anyone else on the planet. They only tell you (and anyone else) as a means to get something from you: more supply; more forgiveness; more tolerance; money; obedience; sex ... etc.

Is that what you were getting at?

Yes, I understand displaying weaknesses to get what is needs to be supplied. I was referring to weaknesses an average human being has, which, will not be tolerated by a Narc. I am not familiar at all with emotion being displayed, other than anger, intolerance, coldness etc.....

Things like the human emotion of feeling hurt emotionally. I have no experience of anything like this in the person I am familiar with.

Have you looked at the difference between a Narcissist and a sociopath/psychopath/APD ? X#1 cried a lot. X#2 was easily hurt by rejection, though he quickly turned that to anger. Mum's feelings are permanently hurt. My father, however, never showed any sign of hurt feelings - nor even the capability for having them. He had an incredibly high tolerance for physical pain, too.

... and got a kick out of inflicting it on other people.

Thank you all for your encouragement. I ended up pulling an all-nighter but have drunk gallons of tea and had a lovely hot shower, so functioning pretty well. It is so very strange, shocking actually, to see the completely different accounts of incidents, so self-serving and with all the pretzel logic sitting there in black and white, with the obvious holes and misperceptions and contradictions all lined up for me to drive right through them.

What amazes me is that someone so absolutely unself-conscious and transparently mendacious can function at all in the wider world, but I think a lot of careers involve purely intellectual use of the brain and I guess you can get through your day just doing whatever it is that brings home the bacon while roiling underneath.

On the process of annulment that all this is for -- I have found it really cathartic and have really felt 'listened to' by the clerical legal eagles I have had contact with so far and also the mental health professionals involved in the process (interview by a psychologist required in the diocese I live in). Whatever the result of the process will be, it has been a positive one for me so far (apart from the exhaustion and the bags under my eyes).

blimey I hope that you had a good nights sleep last night Math x

Bump.

Hi Ladies,

I made a post the other day in relationships to get some stuff off my chest and a kind user, mjihnhiding pointed out that I was pretty much the victim of an emotional abuser. I didn't really want to think that (who does?) but I dutifully went away and looked up what emotional abuse is and actually let it sink in and I think that she's right about my soon to be ex H.

Then I came across this thread and some of the behaviours you ladies have mentioned have struck a chord (although he isn't as bad I don't think ).

I won't bore you to tears by reiterating everything I wrote before but I will sum up some of the things that he does because part of me still doubts that it was him and that perhaps it realls was just me being crap.

Stuff he says/does:

Says I'm a crap mum and will have the kids taken from me - I'm having a hard time dealing with this one at the minute because my DD started acting out at school and they called social services and it feels like they've validated his opinion by telling me that I have to complete a CAF plan or they go on the at risk register.

says that I'm lazy - Because I don't/didn't clean the house obssessively, I was lazy and unfit because unlike him, I quite like organised chaos instead of a showhome

always puts me down for wearing slobby clothes - Because I have a real fondness for hoodies, apparently I'm a chav and I should dress better

Every time he turns up he asks if he looks good - I personally couldn't give a rats ass if he looks good or not but he won't shutup until I say yes and he was like that whenever he had to go out during the day when he lived with us.

Kept saying I couldn't cope without him - He's reinforced the idea that I can't cook food properly so much that now I spend at least a month working up the nerve to try and cook anything that's different from routine meals. He also took over all the finances because I couldn't be trusted with money and now that all his debts are hitting me (joint names - D'oh!), I'm broke and that's proof to him as to how bad I am.

has an ego the size of everest - Everything I achieved wasn't because I was any good, it's because he helped me with it Everything he's achieved (not much to be honest) is because he is just awesome like that.

He had a real fascination with pimping me out to other guys and then got jealous when I finally did - Seriously, he wanted me to meet other guys, sleep with them and then he could have me afterwards. I'm ashamed to say that I did go along with this a few times until I finally put my foot down and said no more.

Loves DS aged 8 but loathes DD aged 12 - I told him when she was 2 years old that if he didn't change his ways, she would end up hating him like his other children (he has 7 with his ex) and that's precisely what happened. Now he deliberately gives treats to DS and not DD and does it in front of her.

loves to sulk - If he doesn't get his own way, he sulks big time, slamming doors, shouting and then ignoring people until they get sick of the drama and give in to him. To be fair, I can sulk for England too although I'm learning not to do this any more.

has serious hygiene issues - His feet!

Hi, I'm going to read this thread, maybe join in soon.

Alaya Oh yes, he is that bad. And then some.

Please get and read the Lundy Bancroft book "Why Does He Do That; Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" and give it to your new man to read if you think he's on the level and not just worming his way in only to use everything you disclose to him against you later (the first time he brings up the pimping out or the sleeping again with your ex, show him the door).

WRT your DD -- I would think (and hope) social services will identify her father as the source of her problems and not you. Please try not to be terrified of his threats. It's very common for a person like this to tell a spouse 'how things are' but actually it's only his bluster most of the time. Things are usually not that way at all and a lot of abusers are very see through.

Alaya, I'm so sorry you posted so thoughtfully, without replies. I hope you've got the book Math recommended - and are managing to balance your feelings wrt to new guy, at least enough to protect yourself and DD.

I've been stepping back a little lately, partly because I've 'clicked' on a few further fronts (hurrah!) and also because this requires a lot of personal processing (boo!) I'm sleeping better, but much longer now - must mean my mind's found something to get its teeth into. At least I hope so.

I couldn't possibly have reached ANY of the steps I've climbed in the past year without MN: this thread and Stately Homes in particular. I really would encourage anybody who's wondering "What's going on here?" to read the links and past threads, order the books - and use the threads :)

cries I'd written a long post and my internet crashed and lost it :( I'll try again.

I'm sorry I haven't been around much lately but i've been really busy in real life with one thing and another and I've been trying to help a friend who is in a sort of similar position to the one I was although her children are younger than mine and she doesn't have the same sort of history with her ex.

I wanted to say thankyou by the way to everyone on this thread because the way you've supported each other and given advice has helped me to help my friend a bit and hopefully, she'll come out the other side stronger than I did :)

Anyway, I'm sorry mathanxiety I haven't got that book yet, mainly because I literally have no money to get it but I will I promise!

I know you're right too about social services and that they really do just want to help me out but when they first called me, it was like I was being proved to be a bad mother and while I know differently, I think I'll always wonder in the back of my head if they're just trying to set me up to take the children from me.

WRT the new guy, I've stopped our relationship for now. While he is a good man, I'm just not in a position to be as good to him, or at least, as good as I could be and so it's on a backburner. Thankfully he understood why and says that if I ever need to talk, he'll be there to talk to which is awesome.

Things have also improved with my ex too which is weird. I stopped all contact that could even be remotely termed 'lovey' and told him that I wasn't going to be his hollaback girl (love that term!) and surprisingly he agreed to that.

He's actually been rather nice lately. He seems to be taking more care of himself, he doesn't moan at me constantly, he turns up when I say he can and not when he feels like it, no silly texts or e-mails and is playing nicely with the children instead of yelling at them. I'm sure they're as perplexed as I am.

At first I thought he was doing what other guys do, showing off to impress a new girlfriend but there doesn't seem to be one in sight which is strange. Perhaps he's trying to impress me or something? Pity he didn't do that before I threw him out!

The sad thing is though, some days, I feel like it's working, impressing me I mean, and I wonder about where it went wrong you know? Don't worry! I'm not about to run back to the numpty at the first sign of being nice, I'm much better than that

Yeah, my self-esteem has begun to return and I can take or leave the ex most days now and while he's being nice now, I know it can't last because that's the way he is so I'll just stay back and watch from a distance because it would take a lot more than being 'nice' to consider letting the thought of the possibility of a relationship with him again cross my mind

Hope you're all okay today! :)

Alaya -- wrt the ex and his behaviour, be wary. The leopard doesn't change his spots all that much as you say. It's a sad reflection on him that you sit there wondering when the mask will slip, wondering what his ulterior motive might be and calling it 'acting nice' instead of being normal. You sound as if you've really seen through him. Hope your friend won't be long in her situation.

Alaya, I am sorry that your ex is and has treated you badly, it is good that you are finally seeing through him, painfull no doubt also x

Hi there. I am a survivor of a malignant narcissist, but have some battle scars and am still taking the medication 13 years later

Hi,narcissistsuck.

Just wanted to let you know that this thread is the first one I open when it is active,although I am not posting much at the moment.

Sorry that you are still feeling the pain after 13 years,but well done for surviving.

I have taken AD's on and off since age 21,and now realize,and accept, that I will probably always need to do so.In my case,I believe that my childhood and the leftover crap - and on-going determination not to get drawn back in by (now aged) p's - is as much the reason for this as my experiences with Narc xp.

Stately Homes and this thread are very closely entwined for many of us - have you checked it out.

You may find it helps to post a long rant,or story on here.Maybe not.If you do,many regular posters will be glad to offer empathy.I will check back in later.x

Hi, is anyone still around on this thread?

I knew it was too good to be true with exh!

He went all quiet, after I bored him by not engaging with self representing in finances, he reinstated his solicitor/barrister, I did not acknowledge the letter, as I would normally, got another letter, he is trying to do me over by the looks of it with various other games ready for court, the game is on again for him to CORNER me, and play with me in court.

I knew it was too good to be true that he was going to leave me alone!

I know this sounds really mean, I was hoping that when I read somewhere that when a narc leaves you alone it is because he is attacking someone else, I kind of thought ow got her just deserts and he was on at her, it is not the case, the two of them are entwined still on ways to screw the children and me over.... ffs, i want to run from this crap, if I was not a mother I would not have to do this crap! he could not do this to me, I could have walked away etc... I feel obliged to do this to protect kids interests, and I can't leave house as I will purposefully make myself homeless and all that entails... I am dammed trapped!

F*ing Hell, will I ever have any peace from him!

Sorry post is a bit of a ramble, I am tired and upset x