NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

I agree Antalya1there has to be some decent blokes available out there,lets be optimistic!
A lot of my friends are in long term relationships and married to real sweethearts, now imagine if, for instance a decent bloke got out of a bad relationship with some bitch (let's be realistic, they do exist!)..He'd be out there..voila!
My brothers available!! He's just managed to leave his ex who for various reasons wasn't a nice person, and refused to seek help.There y'go theres' one!

Hello, IWADASN. What a horrible, horrible man. I suspect he's not just a Narcissist, but a sadistic sociopath - he deliberately targets your vulnerabilities in order to cause you pain. I am so sorry for what you are suffering.

People with seriously disordered personalities (faulty wiring!) cannot see other human beings as people like themselves. They see us more like farm animals, which exist only for their usefulness. Think about different kinds of animal training: ways to maximise a creature's usefulness. There are reward-based methods, which are slower but kinder to the animal. Then there are carrot-and-stick methods, where both reward and punishment are used to control the animal's behaviour. Then there are fear-based methods, which work very fast while robbing the trainee of any independent spirit. Amongst fear-based trainers, there is a large subset who genuinely love to cause suffering, often getting a sexual kick out of it. I think your STBX is one of those.

No mentally healthy individual sees other people as lower-order creatures to be trained. The aim is to break down their trainee's personality, then replace it with required behaviours. The requirements of many sadists include a chain of reactions that goes something like: trust > shock > fear > suffering > pleasure > distress > dependence > need [> trust]. Perhaps you could think about whether your H has succeeded in turning you into the wifely equivalent of a cowering dog.

I really do not think you should be allowing him any time at all with your DC, except under professional supervision.

Please read the links on page 1 of this thread!

Your posting is very sad IWADASN,but you have realized that you don't want to be in your situation anymore, that it isn't right and that is a massive incredible step! brilliant!
I am no expert, i'm afraid, being only 5 days further along the road from the same realization myself with my XP..

This is the advice i have been given;-to read up on the internet about abusive relationships, this helps you to realize what is happening, and reinforces the 'this isn't right' thought process, especially when he is trying to manipulate via insults, threats etc..
-To think about what the tension in me was doing to my son.
-Be nice to myself,little things like i got my hair done,etc this gave me so much confidence
just feeling like i looked nice.

Thats all i can really advise at the moment,but be strong, you can do it,and you do deserve to be happy!..Keep posting!
Big hug!

dark and stormy night

well done for realising this person is not helpfull to you and your lo to have in your life, you have taken the most important step, now the healing can begin x

you have had some lovely support so far, lots of tlc for you may help, what kind of tlc do you find attractive for yourself?

That flowers thread, I think it has been very helpful to have had that thread come up, and to see how far I have come! thanks for allerting me to it! I can see I have some learning still to come for me and from others behaviour !

I hope I wasn't too doomy in my reply to you, IWADASN. It's so hard to break through the 'glamour' - the missing him, and all his supposedly great qualities - and to believe you deserve respect, consideration & kindness all the time. I really do feel for your loss, and know how much strength it can take. (It can be a bit like coming off a Class A drug!!) Please do the reading, though. It's very validating to find your own experience there, written down & shared by others.

MH, I took your point on the other thread and here! I often, still, veer between being too insistent & too docile. At least I know better ways now - just need to keep practising.

There is a learning curve, as u say keeping practicing is helpful (2 me)! What have u been doing grace 2day!? U said u now c less of u mum now!

I do She visited yesterday - after phoning to arrange it 2 days in advance, and ringing again before she set off. It was a short and pleasant visit, hurrah!

Not doing much today, thank you for asking! I've not been smoking all weekend and am paralysed by 'nerves' & irritation! I may buy some fags tomorrow

It all sounds good then Grace! Can I ask what you want to work through in therapy as you seem v together to me!?

Oh wow, MH, that's so nice of you!! I want to burst into tears & kiss you!

Nah, I'm not coping with my life. My thoughts are coming together more helpfully (I hope), but I still don't care about myself. Posting here, I think it must be easier to keep going when you've got kids - I mean, even if you can't see the point of doing things for yourself, you'd do them for the DCs - though I don't imagine it's easy for any of us. Perhaps you should send me a couple of yours, PM

It's weird, I used to be so together but was an emotional mess. Now I'm more together emotionally, my life's a mess!

Hi, thanks everyone. No not too gloomy at all grace.
I read the heartless bitch article which was linked to my thread, it was like reading the last 6 years of my life. It floored me.
My dad was physically and emotionally abusive and exh made me feel rescued, I was 16 when I met him. He whisked me off my feet and I feel like I've woken up for the first time in my life.
You'll have to forgive me for not being more eloquent and chatty but feeling very run down, hopefully I'll feel a bit more together tomorrow.
Thanks

Antalya, you asked me a question a while ago and I've only just wandered back onto this thread, sorry. This I hope more or less explains what I meant.

People with personality disorders need non-disordered people to function normally and make adjustments around them. Stands to reason; if it were fully functional behaviour it wouldn't be called a disorder, would it? Narcs, sociopaths and the like go further though: they need normal spectrum people, or people with passive or dependent disorders, for their narcissistic supply. They need a template for how to be nice, so that they can fool people. If everyone were self-centred and out for what they can get for themselves, civilisation would simply break down. There has to be a structure which is kept in place by the majority respecting laws, working hard, bringing up children with social values, all that various stuff within the spectrum of "normal" behaviour. We all have our little problems and shortcomings, but everybody has something positive they can put in to their community, even if it's only a smile and a kind word. But your narc is a leech, taking and taking, draining you dry, putting nothing back. It's a survival technique for that individual, but long-term, down the generations, not a good survival characteristic for the species. If nothing else, it doesn't bring up the next generation of functional adults because they're inherently too selfish to treat their children properly. Without a non-narc parent plus the structure and expectations of society, their children would be lucky to survive at all. (See the Stately Homes thread for an illustration of how that works, or rather, doesn't!)

Disclaimer: am an amateur philosopher, not a sociologist. May be rubbish. I still think we have them outnumbered though.

I think I got some of those sentences in the wrong order somewhere round the middle, it's my bedtime .

That was great, Annie - and thanks, I've been putting off a reply to the question. Have just typed a reply that should be in SH, so am off there instead ...

Yeah , they also need us normal people to copy off ,to mimic what we say and do in everyday situations .

Grace, that was why I wondered if working though things with a foster child may be something you may want to consider for so many other reasons as well.

Dc were a hinderance at times, npd ex used them, and not only do you have to deal with your issues, you have theirs also....

Saying that the children are a reason to do things, they love you, you love them, you are a family that love one another, etc... I do think that they are a life saver, the thing is they need a parent and their needs have to be met... am I making sense Grace?

Sometimes the children pull me up on things I say and do that are not as they should be, for example I asked dd to do something without asking her please lol x

You're making perfect sense, MH :)
I can't foster for various reasons, but you've prompted me to revisit the idea of mentoring. I'm not sure where my local authority stands on that, so I'm going to find out. Thank you!

I wish you well with the mentoring, i do think that it will be usefull for you and for the young person you mentor! let us know how you get on with it! i think spending time around children can keep you young!

I have noticed that as I am ageing, and I am not that old, that i am not picking up the lyrics of the songs on the radio, as well as I did when younger and as my children do, it is like I hear them, and know them but am having troble recalling them as I used to, odd, I assume that is an ageing thing going on!

Hello, the mentoring sounds a fantastic idea grace if you don't mind me saying. I've gone through your links and wanted to thank you for putting them up here and starting this thread. So far in my life I have tried again and again to 'fix' myself for men like my father and exh, telling myself if only I can be better and if I tried hard enough they would love me and I would be good enough for them not to hurt me. I would deserve love if I fixed myself for them. Your links are making me rethink my whole life.
I'm feeling a little brighter today, spoke to a good friend of mine and it's been an eye opener. In my head I have still been making plans for exh and I, still hadn't let go of him in my mind. When I spoke to her she said she always knew that I would outgrow him, that he's been holding me back and was completely matter of fact about me going on to have a life without him. Sounds odd but hearing her talk so matter of factly of me without him has helped me seperate myself from him in my mind. I almost have a sense of self.
I think it's going to take a while to get there but feel like I got a glimpse today of myself in a few years time, happy and without him. I've never been able to see that before.
Hope your all well.

How are you pm? I have day off tomorrow and will post your little packet. Think about you lots.

Ds has been waking me up and throwing a wobbly wanting to come into my bed for over a week now. So so knackered.

He gets very distressed and there's no reasoning with him so have caved in mostly, though did do 2 hours of taking him repeatedly back to his bed on friday from 2.30 to 4.30 (wish there was a knackered emoticon - matchstick eyes etc)

Dismantled his cot and got single bed down from top room yestrday - his Real Big Big BIG Boys Bed. Thought this might solve it.

Wrong.

Made no difference at all.

Today he mashed all his beans and peas together with his hands, threw his milk all over the carpet, hands on hips huffing puffing and shouting NO. So I sent him to his room for the first time ever

He crashed out! Just been up and put a nappy on him.

Hope you are coping. Families with NPD are just horrendous to deal with. Until you don't have to deal with them anymore. Ha ha. Takes a long while though.

Then once you have gone NC you just have ages of feeling shit about yourself and imagining your bonkers because you have to say to people 'I am not in contact with my family' and they go all 'raised eyebrows' as though you are clearly the one with The Problem - even if they don't know, have never met and never will meet, said 'family'.

Oh well. I hope your gorgeous DCs are ok. Big love to you and to them. Sorry not been in contact a bit more. xx

anniegetyourgun many thanks for that, I've been off the thread for a few days to. Being doing some more thinking and believe that I am beggining to make some in-roads and gaining some perspective. A friend saw my ex a few days ago and had to do a double take as he looked so dishevelled and run down...so I've been through a spectrum of different emotions, I just feel so sad that he never had the capacity for love...

only just getting time to catch up here....

Had appeal meeting with school for ds today.Turned us down.No place for him.Have to revisit whole issue.Long story.
Will think about it tomorrow....

Grace - yes ,the dc are keeping me going.., but I do feel as if I'm drowning in them at times,,,and fantasize about wandering alone through some chic European city in the autumn,sitting at a pavement cafe,looking interesting and mysterious......I'll post you a few..

Ua- lovely to hear from you!!
Totally empathise with the horrendous sleep deprivation...it sends me over...
Love to you both...I will email you in the morning.

Mh-hi!I agree re Grace.She always sounds sorted to me too...

Antalya- good to see you back..glad things are shifting..it can be a long haul...sad is a healthy,if uncomfortable place..

IWADASN - hi,welcome..

Am EXHAUSTED will put light out and hope for the best,,.....

pm, hope you think of an easy solution re ds and school, I can only imagine!

pm, please update us on how things are going with your ds and the feeble xh too.

Lol @ your European city fantasy, pm, that's exactly what I used to do when I needed head space - before I got broke, courtesy of various Narc bullshitters. Never mind. I've put a note out for the postman: any parcels whimpering, shouting or leaking child poo should be given chocolate & left on the back step!

I hope you've recovered enough from DS's first tantrum, UA, to weather the news that I PMSL at your story. Now the silly little sausage is learning you can't tantrum all night AND all day, coz you'll be too tired to execute the daytime one successfully I'm an aficionado of the 'tantrum den' - the recipe varies by child, but I start with a pile of cushions & blankets. Who knows, if all those Narcs had learned to respect their own tempers, maybe they would have grown up to be human ... ?!?!

One of my mother's more workable tactics (bearing in mind she's a Narc, so has no steadying resources at all) was the Old Crockery Box. Whenever somebody was feeling very bad, they could take some plates & cups to throw against the back wall
Unfortunately, Dad preferred throwing people.

IWADASN, thank you for a wonderfully positive post! I'm sure, regrettably, you'll be up and down like the Lib-Dems for some considerable time ... but what a fabulous friend! And well done for talking honestly to her. It takes some courage, in the face of all the 'FOG'. Good for you. I wish you common sense, and more friends like her :)

Stop feeling sad, Antalya (easier said than done!) What your friend saw was what happens to a Narcissist when their supply's been cut off. It gets more like a vampire story the harder you look, doesn't it?!

Multiple cheers for all your affirmations, folks! I need it - been going through one of those depth-dives into the murky, unexplored waters of my own mind. Aarrgh. I am coming up wiser, though, and it's very much thanks to you guys :) Hugs & stuff.

Grace I read about the cycles of narc's, there was one thing on the net about a lady who worked out her ex's five year cycles, is there anything else about it as a short read, am not in the mood for more books, and I have a few print outs regarding resilence to get through when I am in the state to do so? I gather it is like a mania and then a steady decline and depression then a gradual incline where they gather their strength for another mania?

Regarding the supply thing, it is odd as the ex looked like cack in May at court, and I brought dd's to see him which he did not want, and he rejected them, although dd1 asked for a hug he gave back, he had gotten quite fat and had been very offencive smelly in the January hearing, yet this time recently he looks like he has lost weight and looked like he had a sparkle again in his step, when he looked half dead in Jan and May! I remembered back to him telling me how he left g/f he lived with prior to me and he had lost weight and left her suddenly, he lost weight after a long period of depression and left me suddenly and went into a mania state, i do think it would be interesting if he is entering another mania state and to see his highs and low's, that will not be the case as he had no contact with kids and we are not far from the final hearing now, it is good and i am very much looking forward to it, however there is a bit of me that will miss studying the man i married and had childen with now I know most sides of him, bizarre as that seems!