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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

860 replies

IseeGraceAhead · 03/09/2010 01:13

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 17:34

Well, no.4 wasn't a mistake because you don't go round assuming that people are going to play horrid tricks on you (otherwise known as gaslighting!) But no.2 would have set that right, if I hadn't been so vulnerable to his machinations.

ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 17:37

God, PM, I remember your breakfast story! I empathise with every painful second of what you went through there ...
... hurrah for our inner voices, eh? I'm encouraging mine to become MUCH louder Wink

Mummiehunnie · 24/09/2010 17:45

Have u seen the invention of lying? Kids have it on, made me realise i have been 2 open and honnest in past!

dignified · 24/09/2010 17:47

Shit Grace , ive done that too , although i dont any more ie " im not the tidiest / bit forgetfull / im half asleep, what am i like " ect. I still have to stop myself from doing that , and although i only mean it in a jokey way it invites people to label seeing as im labelling myself. Half of it isnt even true.

I remember feeling ill at ease with xh from the very first meeting , i cant explain the feeling . I was aware of it but blew it off as i coulnt think of a reason to feel that way . I remember the feeling of dread when i thought about trying to get rid of him , it was quite awful. Looking back it felt like he " owned " me as daft as it sounds .

I Wasnt impressed with the sarcasm on the flowers thread , but that sort of thing would have alarm bells going off for me , and id listen this time.

PM, feeding off your energy , i know that so well . I breifly dated someone last year and i got this feeling about him and got shot quickly.

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 17:49

So true about giving them weapons....
I think back to when I met xp and to how he later became....
I truly handed myself gift wrapped and labelled with full instructions on my ideals,dreams,hopes and fantasies and what had hurt me most in the past....
I may as well have had "Narcs press here" on a button on my head....

ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 18:06

lol @ the button, PM!

Do you tend to assume you're in the wrong when driving, too? I worked hard on that, after I'd noticed it. I must have looked very strange for a while there, automatically making 'sorry' gestures - immediately followed by assertive action, a scowl and a muttered "wanker" Wink

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 18:50

I would share too much,too early..automatically...I never realised that I did this with all friendships....I think I used to put all friendships on the same level of potential intimacy....or at least,present the same version of myself to everyone....

I think this was due to a wish to be authentic and real -- unlike my family script,in which no one is ever real about anything,and is punished by scorn and ridicule for trying....

I learnt to drop my scripted defences,and exposed myself to attack and exploitation...

One of the colleagues who has instigated my situation at work said to me - on a social occasion- that I was "too open hearted"..I had no idea then what she meant...

She ,of course,turned out to be a textbook N...

flamingo4 · 24/09/2010 19:02

Any advice gratefully appreciated..Have managed to get out of seriously messed up 4 yr relationship,seeing counsellor for depression, and self esteem issues.. but now realized just last night that my XP most definitely has NDP,
Been hearing "its just a joke", and that im "too sensitve" for years, and have had his 19 yr old daughter post seriously nasty stuff on facebook about me since June..
yesterday i stupidly texted him to say i missed him..My counsellor helped me to finally admit to myself that i was in an abusive relationship, today i see it all, and im sad,and angry..I miss the good bits, But i want him to realize ive sussed it, and im not as stupid as he wanted me to think, what do i do now???

ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 19:14

Don't bother. If you try, you'll be re-engaging. The chances that telling him will prompt him to go "Oh, I see it all now! I have faulty wiring in my brain! Thanks for pointing it out!" are about zero, I'd guess. Just carry on informing yourself, and work out with your counsellor how to focus constructively on yourself.

I know what you mean about missing him. You will for a while; it's all the thrills of a rollercoaster isn't it? Keep posting, if it helps you break through to the grim realities of him.

flamingo4 · 24/09/2010 19:36

Thank you.. just want to claw a bit of pride back by letting him know i now think he's crap,
but yes , not only will it reinforce in his head that im mad, but he'll then continue to tell everyone else i am too!.. Am just so mixed up!
Was by myself for 9 years, with the kids, before i met him, and i'm there again..Think i'd convinced myself despite everything that i'd found 'the one'.. sic

flamingo4 · 25/09/2010 10:47

Yippee! Got bombarded with insulting texts from
Xp last night, Didn't believe a single one of them, and didn't reply.. Think i may be moving on!... Oh happy day..

Mummiehunnie · 25/09/2010 11:48

pm, ditto re giving out too much and putting all relationships on the same intimacy level, you word it so well... I am thinking about your reasons for it, I don't know why I did it, I wonder if it is to do with all the moving house and school and always having friendships at the beginning, and them never developing into anything long term for me to see the real person's mask slip?

dignified · 25/09/2010 14:54

Re too much information , ive been thinking about this , i know ive been guilty of it on occasion , but when i think about it , theres a certain type of person who seems to draw it out of you .

Ive always mistaken this for concern , or interest, or wanting to get to know , but i dont think it is , i think its ammo and a way in. Theres a massive differance between naturally sharing and feeling like you have to / ought to. In my experience these people are usually overly interested in anything negative .

ItsGraceAgain · 25/09/2010 16:30

I know what you mean about people fishing for flaws, Dignified - tbh they wouldn't have needed to fish for mine! In writing this, I've realised I still am advertising my vulnerabilities. Yikes.

CONGRATS on taking two big strides towards sanity, flamingo :) :)

flamingo4 · 25/09/2010 19:26

Oh Thank you IGA! Its nice when someone gives you a pat on the back!

Re.Being too open with people.. Think it's good to be honest and open, everyone has vulnerabilities, certain types may use others flaws and vulnerabilies, but that says more about them,then you.I personally like people who have a 'what you see,is what you get'thing about them,much more trustworthy!No hidden agendas!You should just be who you are, if people use it against you,they're shitty insecure manipulators,yuk!

pinemartina · 25/09/2010 20:45

Well done with the texts ,flamingo.
I agree,it's best not to have hidden agendas...hopefully soon,I'll be sure enough about who I am to expect/demand that people do like it or leave it!

My trouble seems to have been the opposite - being overly concerned with other peoples feelings at the expense of my own....forgetting my needs in an effort to make others comfortable...

Right again,d,

  • these people are usually overly interested in the negative -

It's got to be another boundaries thing...some people (those from "healthy ,loving families?) wouldn't consider sharing sorrows or intimate secrets with anyone except those very close or proven as trustworthy.

(Am having trouble pinning this down tonight as v tired,will come back to it as think it is v crucial for me..)

An example:

When asked "how are you?",I used to give a genuine response.Always.It took years to realise that this wasn't expected or even appropriate.It has taken even longer - and still sometimes requires a very concious effort,for me to put on a bright smile and cheerful voice and say "great,thanks,how about you?".........

How sad do I sound

And the flowers thread is troubling me.How can people so vastly miss the point ...

Mummiehunnie · 25/09/2010 20:50

sounds farmiliar pm, again! Do you think it is the family thing that means we told too much to those we should not have? I used to respond "fine" to how are you, I made a concious decision a year ago to respond with "good thanks!" and a cheery voice!

i will look for a flower thread now!

pinemartina · 25/09/2010 21:07

Mh - it's the "Yay!.. " one.

Yeah it's the family thing for sure.

My family don't do "real".
They sit and sneer and grumble about everything and everyone else,but blank out/totally ignore or ATTACK any attempt or effort by anyone--actually me--to make a real remark ,observation,or - god forbid - share a feeling.....and don't even remotely consider asking for advice......

I felt invisible - still do where they are concerned...
so ..(before I sidetrack onto stately homes stuff)

...When I first met people who appeared to want to know what I thought /felt..well,there was no stopping me...I was mouthy and a show off at school...and desperate for intimacy...

Primed and ready - a Narcs' dream woman....

dignified · 25/09/2010 22:25

That flowers thread is getting on my nerves. I note no ones asked WHY caution was urged , and theres a stupid comparison been made between a relative stranger sending flowers to your works to impress your staff and make a statement , and your H of 10 years sending flowers.

Im not sure why im getting pissed off ?. Its probably because im annoyed that once , I didnt get it. So im probably not pissed off at them , im probably pissed off at me. Look , i just commented about a " stupid " comparison. Confused. I think i mean i think I was stupid.

Am i projecting ? Shock

Mummiehunnie · 25/09/2010 23:43

where is thread

dignified · 26/09/2010 00:06

Its on relationships , and its titled " yay, im so excited ".

Mummiehunnie · 26/09/2010 00:25

Their game is about how romantic, ur spoiling it with caution, anger both sides! Tend 2 agree a red flag, abusive exh bought me dozen roses 1 week after meeting, had 4gotten that!

ItsGraceAgain · 26/09/2010 01:31

Pinemartina, thank you so much for writing what you have about giving too much away too soon. You're helping me get some perspective on myself - I could have written the same! My sweatshirt seems to have "LOVE ME" on the front and "HURT ME" on the back ... a garment guaranteed to attract narcs, users & abusers. I hadn't realised I was still 'wearing' it. Bugger.

Antalya1 · 26/09/2010 01:47

My ex bought me an enormous bouquet a week after I met him!! and for a few week afterwards, then never again...saw the flowers thread and thought..uggghhh!... but maybe we do have to accept that although it does bring back unpleasant memories and red flags for us..that maybe there are some genuine men out there Hmm we do have to believe that or else we we will all be stuck unable to move forward???

ItWasADarkAndStormyNight · 26/09/2010 11:00

Hi, I was directed here from a thread I posted about H, exh I suppose. I havn't felt ready to talk about it but think I am now.
He used to try and make me ill, saying things and then pretending he hadn't. He calls me names and tells me horrible things people say about me in the guise of helping me by pointing out my flaws. Many times he'd tell me has toughening me up so I was ready for the world.
He's refused to help with ds and moved out when he was a few weeks old, if I ask him to do something with ds he'll ignore me and do the opposite.
He comes round and asks me for money, if I refuse he tells me he won't ever see ds again.
I lost a friend to suicide at 15, he knows this and knows I panic it'll happen again. He'll send me vague messages alluding to ending it all and then turn his phone off.
There are lots more things but I havn't got the heart to go into it any more today.
I've reached a bit of a breakthrough in that I now know that I don't want this anymore, I don't want this for the rest of my life, I want to be happy. I still love the idea of him but the reality is so different.
Feel at rock bottom, but carrying on for ds. Don't know what else to say other then I'm trying to protect myself for now, he's made this weekend very difficult, came round to shout at me on Friday. I know I have to keep him out of my life.

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