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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

860 replies

IseeGraceAhead · 03/09/2010 01:13

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

OP posts:
Unlikelyamazonian · 21/09/2010 19:53

pm I have sent you an email.

pinemartina · 21/09/2010 20:36

Thanks Ua x

dignified · 22/09/2010 00:33

Hope your feeling a bit better soon Pm , its a pity your not nearer and we could go out on the razz Smile

Am not feeling much better myself to be honest . Am going to confesss , ive been horrible and yelled , and i mean really yelled at my dd tonight for a very minor thing that she did not deserve . Ive successfully transferred my shit feelings onto her and even while i was doing it deep down i knew what i was doing but didnt stop . Ive been a bully.SadBlush.
I would not have yelled like that had anyone been here to witness it . Ive been the bully that i always object too, what a joke.

Ive been meaning to tax my car for the last 3 weeks , documents are sat in the hallway , i just cant be arsed to go into the post office to actually do it even though i pass it every day. Other things have gotton on top of me , minor things like ringing Sky ect. Im just a lazy bastard at the minuite.

Several things have pissed me off , but the main one i have played down for some reason , and not mentioned to anyone is I have had a fallout with my freind . I have known her for years and considered her a good freind . Im actually really upset about it.

She has not had a good marriage and of course was often upset about that . Knowing what its like i judged her reaction to be completeley normal , who doesnt get upset at being treated like crap ? They have now split up . Freind then leapt into a relationship with a man that became verbally abusive within days and escalated into threats to set him on fire ect . At the time i wondered if she had subconsciously sought out someone like him so she had a " reason " to be angry iyswim. She was on the phone constantly , ranting about him in the same way she had her H.

New man obviously ran away . Then followed a reunion with her dad who she hadnt seen for years , where she bombarded him with abusive text messages and again ranted constantly about him . Other family members got involved and she was always the injured party aparently.

Dad and Family members also ran away , at which point she sought out a new man and followed the same pattern. He too ran away. I had never seen any behaviour like this previously and although she could sometimes be hard work , i thought a lot of her .

No. One day completeley out the blue she launched a rather nasty verbal assault on me blaming me for the fact that she had a dress to return and had missed the 21 days return period . It was my fault somehow because im selfish and whenever we go out she spends a fortune that i KNOW she cant afford, plus she has to drive me around everywhere ( !!!) On and on she went , her accusations making no sense and with no justification , with her face twisted in rage .

And i saw it , that look , and realised .It wasnt her ex , new man , dad or extended family , it was her .It had aways been her. The upset / angry phone calls , she was feeding off me relishing in all the purpose made drama . Poor freind running around after everyone while everyone took the piss ect. I looked at her ranting and raving and making absurd accusations and saw that look they have in the eye , its a cunning knowing look , they weigh you up watching your reactions carefully , and when you wont bite , they up the ante, and she did , calling my youngest a fucking brat , how smug i was , i have everything while she has nothing ect ect ( i wish ) I wondered if she had been desperateley seeking out a new target since her H went , and having not managed to find one , thought shed try her luck with me.

I said very little and removed myself . I was shocked and upset and imagined how the various new men must have felt when she took the mask off for those few minuites. And i thought back. All those jokey comments over the years " We know what dignified like with cooking dont we HaHa " umm fuck off , i Can cook perfectly well actually , but i recalled the " jokes " , the constant comments made about larger ladies , look how ugly that man is , the bad attitde in the car , the up her own arse way she often talked about herself , the rewriting of history ,the self description thing they do so well. And the constant feeding and demands for attention. It was all about her .

So fucking plausible. Im quite gutted and feeling very very foolish. And worried. I feel im destined to spend my life batting these fuckers away from me .

Im now the subject of nasty remarks via facebook , unbeleivable. My dcs , are obviously hurt and upset too.

The counseller who i saw was a loveley woman and a bit spiritual . At the time i was having problems with an associate who was pushing boundaries. I had already acknowledged this person to be a potential threat to my mental health. She suggested i take a particular course of action , that they would aproach me again on X day and i should respond with Y. It seemed a bit odd , a bit fortune tellerish , but she was spot on .

I was proud i had dealt with it as i found it hard , and she pointed out that i had easily identified this person , his mask wasnt quite on properly making him visable . An easy first challenge if you like, but that the next person would be harder to spot , the disguises would get better and better .

Why ? i asked, why would i be subject to a series of tests and set ups ? She suggested that it was possible i was dealing with the same person , again and again , same person differant face , if i did not learn the leson , the lesson would keep coming back. It would also occasionally check in on me to make sure i remembered and hadnt forgot. She said that the lesson has no impact unless taught by someone we care about , when the lesson is finally learnt we are presented with a differant lesson , and that on the way i will find others who are learning the same lesson as me , in the same way, at the same time.

I dont know what to think about that , i have never considered anything spiritually before , but in some ways it made sense . I feel i am meeting these people again and again , i honestly now doubt my own judgement although i didnt feel too bad before this . I went to Asdas earlier and felt so differant from everyone else , i dont think many of them know about this stuff and i envied them not knowing. I feel like theres a monster on every corner.

dignified · 22/09/2010 00:38

That was a long whinge , sorry.

ItsGraceAgain · 22/09/2010 01:15

Dignified, I'm very focused on my own stability at the moment and can't reply at the luxurious length I want to, or it'll be bad for me (hope you understand). I wanted to support what your counsellor said - though not from a mystical point of view. We set ourselves these tasks, these lessons to learn. I once heard myself screaming at my boss, "You can't bully me, my dad trained me harder than you!" ... that was when I knew I had to find a therapist, and why. The insight had completely escaped me by the time I did seek therapy, but the memory came back once I was ready for it.

Your story is very impactful for me: I'm straining at my leash, as I'm too isolated to have much opportunity to observe myself in different social situations. I need to test my improved knowledge & understanding.
I am sorry about your friend. But very proud of you, for comprehending what happened.

Garbled, sorry! Hope you get it!

pinemartina · 22/09/2010 10:54

d - ooh,I'd love to go out on the razz!!!
goodness knows how long it's been since I did,or when I will again!!!

So much of what you have said lately really chimes with me.
I would agree with your counsellor,too.
But I would say that whether we consider this experience to be "spiritual/mystical" or place it in a more "rational/logical" space,only matters as far as it enables us to become aware of it,understand and learn from it...

For the record,I have always been a rationalist,verging on utter cynicism - disdain even - for "woo" type stuff.This year ,though,I have been comforted by an uncle who considers himself a reincarnation of an ancient mystic,he believes that he "channels" spirit guidance and has sent me prayers,advice and affirmations which he says are sent from a higher plane.

I remain respectful ,if "open minded" about his framework of belief.And the "channeled" stuff is kind,insightful and "fits" well with my psychotherapy knowledge,if I swap certain references....

Sorry,waffling off on a tangent!

Apparently "an angel" (called Michael)passed on that same message about masks and lessons,via my Uncle,to me earlier this year,around that time I was also sent advice about "tie-cutting" from my xp...I am revisiting this now...

I too seem to have been surrounded by N's,and to be starting to spot them,now. I am convinced that the situation with my job - which I won't go into now - is the result of my having recruited a brand new team and appointing a full cast of the buggers.And my boss was one ,too.....

I think there must be a good "Van Helsing" vampire hunting story in here somewhere......

Sorry about your dd...you know,you may have lost it a bit and shouted "in a bullying way",but that does not make you a bully.You are insightful and sorry and I'm sure this is not the general dynamic between you and your daughter....Please don't be hard on yourself.You have such a strong,sensible voice in your advice to me re my dc.You sound like a great mum.

And you sound like a great friend...you deserve,and will find,better friends than the bitch you are now well rid of.

ItsGraceAgain · 22/09/2010 12:05

Tie-cutting's very useful ime, PM. My magic scissors certainly seem to be working on my mum! I haven't seen her for a fortnight Grin
Whilst I'm happy to use such tools as psychological self-help (the tie-cutting is a visualisation exercise), I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with the supernatural/paranormal - for me, this is a recovery choice because magical thinking taints my family. It's made me very weak in the past. I don't think it's worth over-analysing it: "Do what works" is a very useful tenet. I'd advise caution if 'magic' seems to rob you (or relieve you) of responsibility, that's all :)

I had a long chat with my doctor yesterday. At my request, he's putting me back in the mental health system. Funny how I avoided "needing a therapist" for so long, and now I'm fighting to keep one!

pm, I very much hope you find AND ACCEPT all the sensible assistance you need now. I'm sending you lots of slightly woo 'help' vibes Wink

dignified, hope your DD's forgiven you! x

dignified · 22/09/2010 13:24

Pm , tie cutting , is that the same as cord cutting ? Have you tried it ?

I think i am caught off balance a bit by the situation with both kick me man and freind , both happened within the same week. Seeing ex in any capacity doesnt help either. Im also due at court to deal with a charging order being put onto the family home due to exs debts , im hanging onto my home by my fingertips , and while i know its not realistic , as in i cant afford it , im loathe to give it up and will try everything possible first.

Im not sure re masks and lessons , im open minded , but it seems to ring true sometimes. With the idea of masks ect seems to be the idea of good / evil ect . Part of me knows it when i watch the news and wonder how people can be so accepting of the wars and atrocities going on.

The people i meet lateley seem to be a mix of Narcs and Nastys ,the people whove experienced them and are now recovered , and others who are blissfully sleepwalking through their lives. Im not sure where i fit in with it.

I often have dreams about it too. A while ago i dreampt i wandered into my old house and my ex had moved a load of his stuff into it . A woman was there too , she was wearing a particular unusual item that stood out. , she knew me , knew my ex and we talked about him while she helped me get all his stuff out . I told my freind about this dream.

A few months later i went to a open day / lecture miles away unrelated to my course . As i walked in i saw her , the woman from my dream ( she was doing the lecture ), dressed in the same way wearing that particular item . She clocked me immediateley , have we met before , am i local ect ? We ended up having lunch together and she was telling me how she used to have no confidence and was a sahm , her husband wasnt a nice person , he was a Narc ( have i heard the term ?) and how she got rid of him and got a degree and now shes top whack in a very unusual proffesion. Is probably nothing more than a bizarre coincidence , but she had quite an impact on me that day. Fellow students assumed we knew each other and eyebrows were raised as we hugged and swapped email addresses .

I dream regularly of beings that can change shape and faces , i regularly see slight shadows that look like heat or feel im not alone, i thought i was going mad but conseller says not , just waking up. Im not convinced sometimes .

More than anything i would love to be ignorant , im tired of scrutinizing and watching out , and tired of getting it wrong and feeling wary of everyone i meet .

mathanxiety · 22/09/2010 15:55

PM, just wanted to send you lots of good vibes too, and to say there's a lot of positive in what's happening right now. The Homestart help and the social worker are on your side.

I too think the flashbacks are probably very positive -- horrible though turmoil is, the clarity that sometimes occurs in the midst of it can set you on a better path with surer footing; Dignified, hard as it is to see your friend as she really is, it's better not to be experiencing the not so blissful ignorance and pouring your energy into a bottomless pit.

While still trying to give my own relationship with exH a chance I had a vivid dream one night of taking off my wedding ring, something I hadn't done since DD1 was born. The feeling of having the weight of the world taken off my shoulders was incredible, and I was left feeling a vast peacefulness with the ring removed. It was so real, I checked for the ring when I awoke and seeing it still there was a terrible disappointment. I had the same dream a few more times in the course of shaking myself free from thinking in terms of 'we' and 'us'. I think we can be in touch with an inner eye or some sort of extra sensory mechanism when our brains and our feelings are out of whack, when the surface and what's underneath don't match. Maybe write your dreams down?

Antalya1 · 22/09/2010 19:07

I've been lurking for a few days and not really posting, but I am keeping up with everything.

dignified do you think that the blinkers are off a little bit more now with you and that the tolerances that you once have are now gone? If so that's a good thing, especially regarding your "friend". I have always expected more from my friends than from any man in my life. Friends are supposed to be there for you, be mutually supportive and certainly not do the personal assassination attacks. No wonder this upset you, but I've have "friends" over the years that I've slowly or even quickly dis-engaged myself with. It's a balancing act and give and take with friendships, and she certainly has done the taking and you have enough to deal without her issues.

I've put my DS's through a lot in the pas few months and have certainly been unreasonable with them, but on the whole I know that I am a good Mum, as I know that you are, so I'm not going to beat myself up to much about, and having the occasional 'snap' really isn't the end of the world. We're all human, and at least we can admit when we are wrong.

I have a friend who went through an awful time, she turned to the church and the strength that she has gained from it has really turned her around, things are still dicey now again, but it has given her a level of piece of mind. After a Catholic education I am not in anyway religious and whilst religion is not something that I would take comfort in I do respect her views, at the end of the day we all seek a level of peace in different ways, be it though more self-awareness hroughtherpay, reading, spirituality, religion etc.

pinemartina · 23/09/2010 09:37

Shapeshifting.....someone/something that can appear in one way one moment,then as something/someone else the next...hmmm.....reminds me of several people....

These dreams are so powerful and significant.I am just not sleeping enough to dream.
But am having dreadful images/flashbacks - sort of hypnogogic [sp?] hallucinations -when you are neither awake nor asleep and your mind plays tricks...horrible stuff..

Cord cutting is the same,d .It is a visualisation,but can be "acted out" -psychodrama style...or understood in a "mystic" way,as my Uncle would have it......

Antalya1 · 23/09/2010 13:44

I've just been doing some reading on 'the golden child' in relation to my exes realtionship with his Ds's, and a nother piece to the jigsaw fits, and it's hit me like a ton of bricks that he tried to make my youngest ds the scapegoat...I'm so angry and upset that I allowed it, I always thought it was a personality clash between my ds and him but it was something so much deeper. I'm so upset and angry, my youngest ds saw him yesterday and was just telling me last night, how he misses him, what do I do, do I say anything, he's 14

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-scapegoat.html

dignified · 24/09/2010 09:49

I would Antalya . You neednt go into too much detail if you dont want to , but i think its important to tell someone whos being treated badly that its not ok and not their fault .

Reading that link , it sounds just like my ex and his mum , he was always the scapegoat while his sibling was held up like some sort of God . My counseller thought this was perhaps one of the reasons he is like he is , his mum never accepted him , scoffed at him and constantly put him down . I wonder if shes right and he developed these coping strategys to deal with it as they claim.

Ive been thinking , really thinking and ive been conning myself again . I said previously that i hadnt seen previous bad behaviour in stay at mine man and freind. I have . It wasnt serious or major and it didnt affect me , just the odd thing but i ignored it and made excuses. Of course they were clues into their charecter , but where do i draw the line ?

Whats a big deal , and what isnt ? Everybody has the odd thing , certainly if someone put me under a microscope i dont think id come out glowing , we all have faults . Im struggling to find the right balence between blowing people off for a minor fault and risking becoming involved with someone whos an arsehole.

What doesnt help is that i have my own faults , and plenty of them , so i of course cant jump up and down when i see similar faults in others itswim.

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 10:08

I never realised how much my dc were affected by xp's controlling behaviour .

I feel very guilty and angry with myself.

They are talking about him in a different way,now.Ever since we visited UA ... they heard us sharing experiences and chipped in...it started in the usual jokey way we had used before to talk about him when he wasn't around,but I guess that they saw that as permission to ask,share and tell.....

Although I am so glad it is coming out,how awful that they didn't feel able to talk in this way until now.

And how appalling that I brought this into their lives,and wasn't allowed my relationship to hurt my dc.

DD1 says they had talked amongst themselves,and agreed that they wouldn't say anything to me because they could see how happy I was when he was with us.And they loved it when he was in good mode,and had got caught up in hoping and waiting for the "nice xp " to come back.....She describes him as "like The Incredible Hulk....lovely and normal,but then suddenly a completely different person"....

Not surprising they are all so angry.

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 10:10

And how appalling that I brought this into their lives,and allowed my relationship to hurt my dc

dignified · 24/09/2010 11:24

I get that Pm , and i often feel the same way. We,re hardest on ourselves though , i dont ever think " those women on that thread are idiots who allowed their dcs to be affected " , i bet you dont either , but we think it about ourselves . I think we need to have the same compassion for ourselves as we do others . Says me !

They have seen him , its obviously not a good thing , but theyve also seen you giving him the boot , and saying No . At some point , they will meet him again , someone similar , and they,ll know to stay away . You could think of it like a vaccine , being exposed to a germ in order to create immunity.

Stangeley ennough im told that my mums first marriage was almost identical to mine , that her H was exactly like mine . Shes dead now , but she never spoke of this , to me or anyone else , she probably thought she was protecting us , but how i wish she had .

Anniegetyourgun · 24/09/2010 11:28

Excuse me, I don't often butt in on here, but I feel I semi-belong because XH was a semi-narc, if that makes sense!

PM, you've been conned by an emotional fraud instead of a financial one. At exactly the time in your life when you were most open to a certain kind of approach, he appeared and pressed all the right buttons. If these people weren't extremely good at presenting themselves as something they're not, no-one would ever get taken in. You have to forgive yourself for that. He couldn't fool everyone all the time, but concentrated on fooling you, and he was good at it. If you were really stupid you'd still be putting up with it now.

About the spiritual thing discussed a couple of pages ago: some stuff in the world can be explained in a number of different ways. You can look at them rationally, religiously, spiritually, whatever way works for you, but they're still true. Thus, for example, an underlying feeling that someone is not to be trusted could be based on subconscious signals they give off through body language; your guardian angel whispering warnings in your ear; intuition; a visible aura; matching memories of someone similar from the past; or see how the tarot cards deal. Some of these may look barkin' to me, but you're still right that the person can't be trusted, explain it how you will.

I generally see myself as a rationalist - although I am also (vaguely) Christian, I don't believe God, or who/whatever, interferes directly with the rules this world operates by - but let's face it, there are some things we don't understand yet and maybe never will. Premonition is one of those; I've had 'em but I don't pretend to explain 'em. Never had one as useful as Dignified's though, they've usually been about quite trivial events! My dad (an aggressive atheist) was quite spookily clairvoyant. It probably will be accepted as scientific once science finds a way of measuring it! Meanwhile, what can I say? Listen to the "inner voice" combined with outer evidence. Suspect everyone, because although most of them aren't out to get you there are enough of them about to make life miserable for the rest. If it's any consolation, narcs, sociopaths and the like can only function in a world where the majority aren't like them.

Antalya1 · 24/09/2010 13:00

Anniegetyourgun when you say "If it's any consolation, narcs, sociopaths and the like can only function in a world where the majority aren't like them." - what does that mean?

I'm still thinking things through, every time that I think that I'm done, some new fresh perspective comes along - as I tend to be logical person, perhaps I'm trying to fit logic in where really none exsists?

It's seems to be a process of unravelling layers. For the first few months I had been so absorbed in myself and my feelings that I really was unaware of any effects that this may have had on my DS's.

Luckily my ex wasn't their Dad and so hopefully I should be able to undo any damage that may have happened, but my real concern is that I don't want them to view our relationship as a bench mark on realtionships.

Pinemarta I also feel guilt over what I put them through, the older Ds not so much as he seemed to be the favoured one, but my younger ds has really been the brunt of the scapegoating - and I allowed this to happen to a certain extent. It was only yesterday when I was reading through the scapegoating info, in relation to exes Ds's that it dawned on me that that is what he was doing all along with my youngest.

There was always a clash of personalities- initally my youngest ds had huge issues with ex and displayed outrageous behanviour, that we all put down to the fact of having to share me when he was used to our little family set up. But now when I think back, all those clashes of personalities were so much more. My ds is a lovely boy with many many good qualities that I'm enormously proud of - not least his ability to emphasis and his fantastic sense of humour! however he is passionate in his views can be trying at times, demanding, lively, vocal etc. etc. It's so hard to explain the relationship - or lack of that he had with my ex, there are so many stories to tell that I could be here an awful long time...and the guilt of allowing that to happen.

I had a chat with both Ds's last night, I cannot tell them the full extent of what I now know, I don't think that that would be best at this time, but we did talk about how my ex didn't feel the emotions as we did and also his eldest ds, who although isn't my problem anymore, I feel so sorry that he has been so badly effected by his dads scapegoating, the effects are there for even the most casual observer to see.

During a conversation with my ds he did say that he misses my ex...I'm shocked, due to the type of relationship that they had I did point this out to him, but I think that his worry seems to stem more around worrying that I'm now by myself.But he also misses the 'family set-up' that we had exes ds etc. who he will hang out with on holidays etc.

I do need to have some more conversations with them..and really listen to what they have to say and also answer any questions as honestly as I can.

Our household is more relaxed now that he has gone, and we are just finding our 'new' routine, eat when we want, watch what we want on the telly without complaint and critism etc. but I do remain very very angry with my ex and mostly myself

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 13:25

Antalya - I wonder how much my ds's behaviour is to do with my xp. He idolized him,and was so proud of any opportunity to go fishing or doing diy jobs with him,or to sit up in the front of his van and go out just the two of them.
His own father is a bookworm,a quiet - lazy - intellectual.DS says he wishes his dad was like xp......But....his angry outbursts are just what xp did ,too - although xp was never physical.

The girls say xp would play them all off against each other - a lot....selecting a different favorite child for special praise,changing randomly,keeping them vying for favour..anxious to be the one..

He would tell each one,secretly,that they were the special one - with a little dig at the others - and always said "let's not worry mummy about this,she's got such a lot to cope with"...
they have only just told me this - all of them agree..
the thing is,they have been brought up to share and question and be honest,so they told each other.They agreed that it was all probably done to help me out,so put up with it...they think they played him at his own game by playing him off between them.

dd2 thinks this is why he got more overtly controlling - with the tv and food, last Christmas - because his tactics were not creating enough division in the family.

Whenever he stomped off,he would say - "it's always you and them against me" ..we would look at each other and say "er,yes,it is..." and wonder what he expected us to do.
Then we'd enjoy the break.

Actually,it's not surprising he took off when baby dd arrived.He probably didn't have a script for dealing with all the relationship dynamics that would give him any control...

We'd have eaten him alive.....the bastard

Hey,that just came out on its own!!!!!

Antalya1 · 24/09/2010 13:41

They want to fit in so much, but they don't have the capacity.... that feeling of never quite belonging..he probably did feel marganilsed, which showed with trying to play off the children against each other...I agree Bastard! It's good that now they feel that they can discuss these issues with you and what happened, we know that our children try to protect us as much as we try to protect them sometimes, but the fact that they now feel able to discuss this with you now shows that there must have been a change in you and that although in a lot of ways you are still in a thick of it, Ds schooling and other issues etc. they must sense that you are stronger...

And yes, I do think that your ds's behaviour has a lot to do with what has happened, but he will be fine, it's an adjustment, but in the end a healthy one, if you would have stayed together the effect of growing up in a supressed household would have longer term effects. He will be fine..it's just time.

We all have a dry sense of homour in our family - well me and my ds's - and he never got it..and at times we were far to polite and paasionate about life for him to feel with his fucked up repressed emotions and total lack of humour to ever belong. I always did describe hom as being very 'English' he never understood but everyone else did.

His dating ad ran along the lines of looking for someone who "is relaxed" - could this mean complete push-over who he can complety control?

Our children are taught, as you say, to question, evaluate and offer opinions and that's a set of traits that Narcs can never cope with, how can they control when they are up against that? My exes ds's would never say boo to a goose..I always found that very very strange.

dignified · 24/09/2010 15:50

Pm , was he differant things to differant dcs ?

dignified · 24/09/2010 15:52

Woops , posted to soon , they are very good at knowing what people want , what qualitys they admire and present themselves as whatever is desired .

ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 16:53

Dignified, apart from my inner voice / intuition / angel / spirit guide / god (love that post, Annie!) - which told me "That man will destroy you" the very first time I saw X#2 Shock - there's one incident I keep looking back to. I was late for our first proper date. He went mad. My trusty inner voice did actually murmur "Er, don't stand for this, Grace, either he wants to see you or he doesn't." But I did stand for it, grovelled apologetically and overrode my better sense. After all, people had been ranting at me for lateness all my life. Looking back, I don't even know if I was late!

I sure as hell wouldn't stand for it now. The minute anybody tells me they won't wait, I know they're too rigid & controlling for a normal relationship. Likewise, I won't overlook 'jokey' criticisms of my appearance the way I used to. I think you just know. It's a matter of trusting your better judgement, isn't it? And having respect for yourself, which means you require it from others :)

pinemartina · 24/09/2010 17:25

Yes,d,he did just that- to all of us together and individually. We had holidays and days out that were the best ever...but then that was what we had all longed for - it's not that we can't and don't have great times together,we really do....but there's no doubt that my hands are full and it's not possible to be nurturer,organiser,chief cook and bottle washer and all round action hero without getting irritable and worn out..it was fun and less tiring as a couple, and he was at his best on holidays and stuff...the dc loved seeing us banter affectionately and loved being seen as a two parent family.

But of course it was a fake,all for show.And he fed off my energy and enthusiasm...
And gradually his moods and sulks crept in....

And he was full on fab action man from the first meeting with the dc...

And he knocked me sideways with romance and sensitivity to my needs from day 1....

And wanted to see me or speak on the phone for hours every day from the first....

And I had a "stay away" inner voice ,too...the first time I spent a night with him....and another one the next morning at breakfast...."bad news,you'll regret this"...I ignored them....

ItsGraceAgain · 24/09/2010 17:31

Hadn't really gone through it in detail before - after posting, I worked out this (seemingly obvious, duh!) chain of events. Being late was part of my scapegoat family role. So I used to tell everybody "I'm always late" - which isn't even true. It's a given that I would have told Jon this as soon as we met. On the date, I thought we'd arranged to meet at half past seven, and arrived at about 7:35. He said we'd agreed 7 o'clock - and raged. My mistakes:

  1. Telling people I'm always late (stopped that a while ago)
  2. Assuming he was right and I was wrong.
  3. Accepting that a date had the right to yell at me.
  4. Not realising he probably lied about the time Angry

See, I gave him a weapon. He used it. Bastard.

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