NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

I dated after about 9 months , but really it was too soon. Ive been seeing someone recently but have given him the boot as he has recently displayed some unpleasant behaviours.

Its took me nearly 3 years to get to the stage where he doesnt bother me too much , but i still have days if im being honest where i think about the things hes done and fantasise about running him over !

Mine was a rapist , a pervert and a theif, i had a lot to be angry about , it only got better when i saw a counseller who dealt in abuse , it was very difficult but worth it. I think i read it takes about 3 years to get over a " normal " divorce , so 5 months is not a long time at all , but i think there is a social pressure to be " ok " after a few months . I dont think thats realistic to be honest.

I spent months reading about Narcs , scribbling mad thoughts into a diary , crying to a counseller , all the poisenous shit they inflict on you has to be processed , unpicked , and dealt with . I had to look at how i arrived here , why id ignored such serious warning signs in the early days , how HE had become like this , and to learn , for the first time ever , to have some boundarys.

Im still practising ( i really should have L plates !) On a positive though , its not all bad , it slowly gets better as you remove the sticky labels theyve stuck on you ( unreasonable , mad , ugly , ect ).
I learnt to drive and went off to uni , started going out and having fun for the first time ever.

They focus on your weaknesses , having weaknesses isnt a bad thing , we all have them and normal people dont exploit them , but while they can affect us it shows we still have them and weve still work to do on ourselves i think .

Of course, I read last week about leaving your car at home and him behaving like a jerk...my memories so bad sometimes. Yes you did have a whole load of stuff to get over, possibly not helping by him still being around. How are you feeling now about last week? Have you heard from him? As this was the first significant relationship since your ex how are you dealing with it?

The subtle insults became so far ingrained into my psyche that's it's hard to differentiate between what I really am and what really has just become part of my new persona over he last years..their beliefs become your won perceptions of yourself...does that make sense?

The issues that I've been left with and really have to undersand is if:

• I'm clingy - a bunny-boilerish type
• Emotionally unstable
• Unreasonable expectations of relationships
• Moody/bad-tempered and hard to live with
• Over - romanticise
• A people pleaser
• Unattractive / over-weight
• A shame about my house
• A younger ds that is loud full of emotions and will possibly be an issue in any future relationships

I have heard from him , and told him straight. He was apologetic and acknowledged that he was wrong and that he was upset that i effectiveley keep him on a back burner. I dont buy it , making someone feel uncomfortable like that with the angry act isnt ok and i wont be seeing him again.

Im disapointed but ok about it , i didnt want anything " proper " so its not been a big deal really.

The things your left with , i think thats normal, but, are they things that YOU think about yourself , or that others think about you ? Ie , in what way are you emotionally unstable ? You dont sound it , you sound pretty clued up to me and very insightfull.

Unreasonable expectations about relationships ? If your expecting to be treated decently , rightly so. If you expect a tiara and a cruise boat you might have a point !
I know what you mean about finding hard to differetiate between what they say you are and what you actually are. After being defined for so long its very difficult to know what charecteristics are your own . Dont forget their constant projection , they usually claim you are everything you are.

Perhaps post some examples of what your concerned abut ie , bunny boiler , and see what others think ? I spent months asking people " Is it me or ,,, "? I just didnt trust my own judgement and was full of self doubt. Its horrible , but normal in these circumstances.

And as for house , i wouldnt give a toss ! Im still in my jammys , pots need doing , washing needs sorting and if someone called now id feel a bit embarressed to be honest , i dont care.

I'm so glad I've found a kindred spirit in prioritising getting dressed/housework etc. way behind slobbi ng about...that's a normal Saturday to me, it was 7 last week before I got dressed and tha was only because I needed to go to thew shop and ds's can't drive yet!

I have spent the last few months asking..is it me...

After my last experience I have wondered if I expected to much consideration in relationships, yes to be spoiled is wonderful, but what I would really like is a mutually supportive and loving relationship and for my feelings to be taking into account.

I feel like a bunny-boiler as I know that I am still fixated by my ex, he fills a lot of my head-space, also did a little bit of cyber stalking on him the other night...very unhealthy I know!

For so long I have been made to think that I'm over-emotional - overly-sensitive, perhaps I am. And certainly over the last few months my emotions have been all over the place.

The thing that I am most worried about is my self-esteem, that's definatly something I need to work on.

Any my judgement....oh that's another subject all together. I'm off out tonight with friends locally and have promised myself that I will not get that drunk that I have blanks the next day...I've had a few incidents of nights like these the last few months!! and I really need to stop

Hehe Im going to get dressed in a minuite but thats only because im going to mcdonalds ( yes , im a slob , and i dont like cooking either !)
All you describe sounds normal to me , you are bound to be emotional ,( i was a wreck ) and obsessive thoughts about the ex are normal along with wondering what theyre doing ect.

Dont think for one minuite that expecting a supportive considerate partner is too much , your on the ball with this. ( I hope you havent got well meaning freinds saying some of this stuff ?)

As for these nights out , its great your going out , and as long as your not getting arrested or doing anything ridiculous , enjoy !

...well not exactly been on my best behaviour on a couple of occasions I've gone out the last few months...both times due to excess alcohol...and I like to put it down to a temporary wildness after the last few months....

The last time out with a friend, for a quite catch-up over a bottle of wine led to my last memory of the night being talking to a 27 year old with a Family Guy t-shirt...vague memories of asking why he didn't just get back with his wife (I'm on a mission at the moment that everyone must have a happy relationship) and him telling me repeatedly that she was now a lesbian, even vaguer memories of him walking me home and a couple of texts off him the next morning asking to see me again..I don't even remember giving him my number...definitely not one of my finest classiest nights out So dreading bumping into him tonight!

Now do you know what I mean when I say emotionally unstable!!

Heh, you may be an emotionally-unstable, bunny-boiling slob but you're so adorable that 27-year-old guys still want to see you after you've lectured them on relationships and stumbled all over their feet! Not bad going, I'd say.

IGA oh how I'd love to think that I was that adorable....he did tell me though in a rather pleading way that he hadn't had sex for 12 months..hmmm!!...really needs to review his chat up lines!!!If I come accross him tonight, that could be the subject of todays lecture!!

Oh dear , im feeling a bit wobbly , unusual for me.
Remember the stay over at mine or ill sulk guy ? Well i had left a few bits there ( not crap by the way, a laptop ) so i had phoned and arranged to pick it up. No big deal. I arrived and he was a bit curt but had it all ready , so no problem , off i went quite happily .

Half an hour later he texts , nothing offensive , just " I think that was everything , but ill give you a shout if i find anything else ". Ok , says i.

Then i get
Him - Re last week , I assumed you were done with me , you didnt mention staying so i thought you were sick of me , i was trying to make it easy for you .
Me - Ok
Him - I thought you were sick of me.
Me - No problem
Him - Help me out here , what does no problem mean.
Me - It means ok , no problem.
Him - Are you done with me ?
Me - Yes , as i said last week.
Him - Why , please dont do this
Him - Why ? Help me out here please i dont understand ?
Him - Please come back and we can talk about it
Me - Kiss my arse and fuck off !

Nothing too offensive , but his bullshit attempt to manipulate is pathetic and even though i havent bought it , i recognise it and i feel quite upset by it. I actually feel a bit sick and shaky . There was no way i was going to start going over it or engaging it , but the attempt has really upset me. AND HE KNOWS I SEE IT.

Worse , he knows what my ex is like , hes often said how proud of me he is re uni, learning to drive ect , hes apeared to cheer me on . He knows i can spot every trick in the book , he KNEW i would come away last week and that that would be the end of it. And now he trys this sick game of push you pull you. I dont give a fuck if i dont see him ever again , my choice , and i chose not to.

Im trying to think of this as a learning curve , a lesson not yet fully learnt , ie , what do i know now that i didnt know before, ect. But im furious , how insulting of him to even try this shit. And its deliberate.
He knows ill be hugeley offended by the attempt. Fucking idiot.

Rant rant rant !

Things id like to say but i wont

You are grey and old and i am way out of your league
You dog stinks and is a bastard.
Im not surprised your wife gave you the boot
Do you know your dad always stares at my boobs ?
Your a terrible driver, how did you past your test ?
I dont like your old man slippers .
I dont like your obsession with medieval armour , i think its Nerdy
Youve got strange long toes.
You think your top whack at martial arts after having a few lessons and try to impress me even though ive trained for years , competed internationally ( and won )and could whoop your butt in a hearbeat.
Your gut always rumbles in an annoying way
Youve got shit old man clothes. Who the fuck wears a polo neck ffs !

Phew , that feels better

Good

Manipulation all over the place - and now you've seen it written down so you KNOW you're right! The man is a Kick Me player, no? (I love the way Berne says "the temptation is almost irresistible".)

Bollocks. Im not as clued up as i though i was. Can you explain more Grace ?

Whats in it for them ? Is there a particular woman drawn to them , is it obvious, should i have seen it ?

Berne would have seen it, but I would have given him the benefit of the doubt like you.
Wife gave him the boot -> "poor me"
Terrible driver -> "it always happens to me"
Slippers & clothes -> "I need sorting out"
kick me, kick me, kick me ....

Forgot to answer your other bit. Yeah, we've still got rescuer tendencies apparently! Dammit!

Still, you caught yourself in time (well done again!) - and I'm sitting firmly on my shelf for safety

He's got his payoff - you're another unstable, stalkerish bitch, proving his personal point that all women are bonkers and he attracts them for some reason

You wisely avoided getting yours, which would have been a game of "After All I've Done For You" or whatever Berne calls it. I have conducted a few experiments with this! Play fast enough, and you can finish the first date by commiserating with each other over the awful treatment he gets from women (me) and how I always end up rescuing losers (him). Quite funny, but I wouldn't recommend it as a regular habit

Groan. Ding ! Ding ! Ding !

I love dogs , my own is a loveley placid giant . I dont usually hate animals. However , his is a bastard. It honestly takes the piss out of him like you wouldnt beleive. It comes into the room and jumps , licks , bounces , barks while he constantly tells it to stop / get out. It sits and looks and ignores him. You can almost see it laughing at him.

Eventually after telling it a thouand times he gets up then bastard dog will run out of the room and sits in the doorway laughing , where the scenario is repeated again and again.. It goes on and on . One day he was getting more and more upset with bastard dog
. I was getting pissed off , a stinky fat dog on me is not my idea of fun. I said " FFS , WHY DONT YOU SHUT THE FUCKING DOOR ON IT ".
Oh yes ! he says and duly shuts the door on bastard hound.Its now over and finished and bastard dog doesnt bother us again. I mean how hard is it ?

His kid takes the piss too and he whinges about that and hes sort of patheticly gratefull if theyve had a good times at his.

His ex wife is sometimes a little naughty re changing plans with his kids . A while ago she said he was to have them insisting it was his week. It definateley wasnt yet the phone call went like this " Sorry to bother you , do me a favour , would you mind , is it ok , know im inconveiencing you , apreciate it , owe you one blah blah ".
I wouldve said " its YOUR week to have them i had them last week as you well know " , yet he was practicly grovelling and almost invting her to argue, even though he knew full well.

He recently described a situation at work where he had put all this effort in , gone to a suppliers to get a part ( wasnt asked to ) drove a colleauge over 50 miles home ( wasnt asked too ) , had done all this stuff and was upset that it had not been acknowledged and in fact he got done for something unrelated. Why do it ?

In general he dresses ok , but if we go out he will get dressed up like an old fart , last time he wore a fucking polo neck jumper with BEIGE CHINOS that were too short and you could see his WHITE socks , i kid you not.. He looked ridiculous and i told him to get changed and asked why he attempted to impersonate his dad every time we went out. Im 35 ffs ! He wasnt happy.

I dont like thongs . Not on me and especially not on men , this just came up in gerneral conversation. Getting undressed for bed one night he reveals a ridiculous pair of thongs . I could hardly keep my face straight , he was very hurt. I asked why he would wear them when he knows i think them ridiculous , he claims he forgot.

He,ll often suggest things that he KNOWS i dont like , ie , he,ll try to show me fucking pictures of suits of armour on the internet " This metal was made by x in 1284 , look at the detail , its fantastic " im not interested and say so , cue more hurt.

He once bought me a pair of tarty horrible stockings , which was a massive mistake as again he KNOWS how i feel about the idea of dressing up for men , expectations of sex ect . Cue more hurt when i suggested that perhaps he should wear them.

This ridiculous scenario last week , he knew id keep away , and guess what , now hes hurt.Boo Hoo.
It sounds like im rude to him , im really not , but i am pretty straight and he knows full well what i will and wont put up with.
Bit of a rant wasnt it , sorry.

You're funny!
You know what, the old me would have got some books on 13th-century armour and learned to like it. Thanks to X#1, I understand the offside rule despite having no interest whatever in field sports - and became a Chelsea fan. I couldn't name a single player now, unless it was D. Beckham! Oh, yeah, and I learned about Nazi uniforms & medals for him

A thong!!!on a man especially OMG...you've definitely done the right thing there...the whole situation has "fix me" all over it...glad you've decided not to be the one to attempt to.

I need to read more on Bearne, I've not come accross any of this before it sounds as hough it would make very interesting reading.

I faked trying to take an interest in golf..I listened for hours while he dronned on and on....and on...(yawn)...and became quite an expert in brick matching!!

Dignified, your descriptions made me laugh so much! sat at 10 post!

Grace, you are so right with the kick me thing he has gone on, boy do I have to try and stop that script as I have it also....

I often think is the posting on this site part of the rescuer thing going on...

Antalya1, I have not read loads of Bearne either Antalya, have some books to finsish, I have read games people play about four times now, each time I get something different from it, infact it is about six months again, so I think it is time to have a reread... of it... it is sickening to notice the games of those around you, not easy to pick up your own all the time... and not easy to work out how to stop the drama triangle either, I am a work in progress!!

If anyone is interested, saw ex hub this week ex over finances. I thought I was over the attraction (not fancying/sexual/partner) of the games with him, I can see that I am not, and what scares me is that I am now a new exciting challenge for him, I have sparked his interest, which is if I am honnest exciting for me, in that you won't pull the wool over my eye's this time type of thing!

He is totally different, the last two times we met for finances he was not happy, down trodden, unkept, smelly that testestorone between the legs smell...one time, he had put on loads of weight, this time, he was clean, bright, sparkly, happy, on a high,
and with it, I made me think of bipolar and narc cycles of high's and lows... he has lost weight also...

He did the thing of saying one thing and wanting another, stating he wanted it over, then finding reason for it not to be at the end, the judge seemed bewildered by us, he was game playing, I was game playing to get the best result, and then I cut through it at the end, and he could not cope, as when this ends, there will be no reason for contact between us.

He seemed to not understand that his manipulations could not work the same way with me. I have work to do on myself as the controlling thing was something I went for agian, although now it makes me sick and I don't know if I let him control me for that bit for financial resolution or for him to control me... does this make any sense...

What was interesting is that he showed shame at his bad behaviour, he was complaining about his debt, and I pointed out his spending behaviour was what got him into that situation and he looked shamed!

Then he was abusive I just would not take it on, he seemed confused again... I shurgged my shoulders and said his second wife was as much a burdon on him as me if things go wrong there... and I would not feel guilty as he was trying to make me feel over so many things, his games were not working with me that way...

He must feel lazy as he called me that, I was nothing but a very hard worker when we were together and he was the lazy one!!!

He must also feel he gives nothing to society as he is going on about that being me again, I can't believe that I used to take this stuff on...

I am scared I will be attracted to the controlling thing though as I still must be in kick me mode.... as there seemed something there!!!!

Hope you are all having a nice weekend!

I think I'll have to get that book too, 'the games people play' I think my x has traits of 'kick me'.
It all kicked off for us today again too. After him cancelling about 6 times this last week and a half to see DS1, friday as he was too tired from work, sat cus he was shaving his head to go out sat night in town, (with a date a think) He finally turns up this morning, (on time for once after I'd mentioned this to him). He starts saying that as he has parental responsibility he is entitled to have DS1 while I am in labour with DC2. and that he wants to have him overnights soon. I said I wasnt happy with this due to the drug issue, so he starts getting angry, telling me I have let my family down (by ending the relationship) taht I have deep psycoloical issues with him smoking weed, I'm emotionally abusive, etc etc etc. I said to him he cant take DS1 to his house or do anything with him if I have concerns about his welfare, (I had legal advice on this earlier in the week), he was getting even more angry and said that instead he would take him to his girlfriends house and have him overnight there as he said, 'we dont smoke weed there' (meaning him and his girlfriend). This is the 1st I've heard of the new GF, we have only been split about 3 weeks, and to be honest I dont know if she even exists. None of what he is doing is about the best interests of DS1, its all about him having control and power over me still and trying to hurt me. Anyway, I'm going to phone legal aid again tomorrow to speak to them about the GF thing to see if he can take him there, plus the harrassment I am getting and threats. To be honest I told a friend yesterday, I am actaully scared of him. This is the 1st time I have stood up for myself and am standing my ground, which is why he's getting so angry, but its also scary for me as I dont know what he's capable of and I'm scared of him turning up at my house without my concent type of thing. anyway, sorry for rant, but I'm so tired of him bullying me and trying to control manipulate and hurt me just cus he doesnt get his way....

Potted version of Eric Berne

I wonder if i had kick me going on with ex husband . Ive mentioned before that i used to receive really horrible nasty text messages from him that would really upset me , but at the same time i would feel " better " if that makes sense . I also knew that any contact with him would result in him being abusive , i also knew he was financially plotting and didnt stop him.

Previously i had challenged him about awful behaviour but around this time i knowingly took what he was giving. I was aware i was doing it , and i wondered if i was " allowing " him to be vile so i would feel justified in giving him the boot. Counseller wondered if it was a form of self harm.

Freedom , you know , you can just call the police if he turns up and starts mouthing off , do you have a soliciter yet ?

Grace , im going to order that book in a minuite , but for now , im struggling to understand , did he consciously know and want me to give him the boot ? Will he be aware ?

I'm sorry with what happened with your now X Dignified, but better without him by the sound of it!

I spoke to legal aid over the phone and the guy I spoke to gave me his number for any more quiries I had. I dont know if he counts as a solicitor but I dont think so. I will call again tomorrow and ask what further steps I can take if he keeps this up. He didnt really mention anything like that to me last conversation. And ask about a solicitor etc.

as a side note I just found this article and vid on the huffington post about how to deal with narcissists, the last point about 'showing how something will be to their benefit' is interesting, not something I've considered before in getting through to XP.
www.huffingtonpost.com/judith-orloff-md/how-to-deal-with-a-narcis_b_676193.html

Hi, dignified - Math's link was a good one. Everybody plays games all the time (my first introduction to TA was as part of my sales training). They get dysfunctional when they're ingrained & played out uconsciously - these are usually the ones we developed as children, when they seemed like a useful survival strategy. He's probably not aware he's doing it - we quite often figure it out, after a transaction has gone wrong, but fail to realise we're following a script.

You need to read Berne rather than ask me!

Just read your link, freedom. Unfortunately I did all that with my N boss and X#2 ... then got accused of being manipulative (which I was) and punished for that! You just can't bloody win. This works great when you only have limited interactions - now I see my mum less frequently, we get along fine because I 'feed' her plenty as soon as she arrives - but ime you can't keep it up for long, not without sacrificing yourself.