NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Hi everyone

I haven't been on for a while so I have a lot of catching up reading to do by the look of it

I just wanted to say that I have just ended my marriage. I can't believe I have found the strength in there but I count finding this thread and knowing I am not alone in living with a narc such a huge blessing.

When I say ended my marriage - I mean I have cut all contact - yesterday was one of the worst days of my life in terms of him ranting and screaming and blaming me over something so utterly trivial.

I'm lucky that he doesn't live here in the week and I'm also lucky that he isn't going to be coming up this weekend as we're skint.

He knows I've had enough. I cried to him last weekend that I wanted to seperate after another weekend of misery that I will never get back - he changed from being the aggressor then to being nice and supportive, but it quickly descended again on Monday - and like I say, yesterday the abuse and threats got so bad I had no choice but to switch my phone off.

Cue more apology texts last night. I have told him I don't want to talk to him and he seems to have accepted this and told me to phone him when I am ready!

What I've learnt from here is that - I was never loved by him - I never will be loved for who I am - that there is no point in entering into any sort of conversation with him because it just absolutely baffles me each and every time - and that what is staying with him going to do to my 2 girls! What sort of an example would I be showing them?

Thanks so much again for starting this thread Grace and for everybody who has posted their experiences - it really is a lifeline for some people.

i feel sick and numb

Wow thenamehaschanged,you have described very clear,strong insight into the reality of the situation with your h.

I'm so sorry you have had such a horrible and sad time.As you know from this thread - and many others on here - you are not alone!

I'm not surprised you are feeling sick and numb.
You have taken a major step forward.It is a huge change and change is always scary - even when it is exciting and much longed for.

But of course,as you know,you are also grieving for what you have lost: the hope that things would get better,the dream of and longing for a relationship in which your love was returned and in which you are loved for who you are.

As you say,you were never loved by him.That makes it all the more difficult to find closure.

Allow yourself to feel whatever comes up.It will be painful for maybe a long while.

But it will also be getting better all the time! Your girls and you will be free to choose what you do,who you see and what to eat/watch on Tv etc.No more weekends of misery for you at the hands of an abusive idiot.

You must be very strong and determined,and love your girls very much,to have got this far.Well done.

Now,keep putting one foot in front of the other,slowly;breathe,take it easy and be kind to yourself!
Keep reading and posting here.
There are loads of us alongside you!xx

thank you so much pinemartina, those are really kind words.

I'm alone at the moment and so being alone with my thoughts is a bit scary. I just read through the texts from last night again and read up some more about emotional abuse online for confirmation that I am definitely doing the right thing.

I will stay here and keep posting too.

Thanks again

You are definitely doing the right thing!

I was not married to my xp,we didn't live together and were only together 3 years.I had our dd in April.

I am only just beginning to really know that I did the right thing.That is despite all the evidence ...he was a classic NPD /emotional abuser as per any of the descriptions you will read.

He knew this himself and told me!

So many posters here were urging me - as I am now,with you - to look at the facts.

I so wanted it to be otherwise...and I had been brainwashed...I really believe this...I constantly doubted the evidence that was plain for everyone else to see....I questioned myself.I blamed myself...I thought "if only I tried harder"

When I was alone it was worse.
I kept myself on track by re-reading the posts by myself and others.

That's why I am posting this for you now!

I just drove back from Tesco with baby dd and dd2 who is off sick from school. We passed a van with almost the same number plate as xp's,and dd2 asked if it was him.
"What would you do ,Mum?" she asked

For the first time I had a genuinely ,emotion-free response -
"nothing,what can he do?"
I really meant it ,all the way through.No twinges of pain at what I have "lost"

I really do believe I have had a lucky escape.
The freedom I am feeling as I am typing this is amazing!!!

You can get there!!Stay strongxx

I've been lurking and getting a lot out of this thread, so please keep it going. Just wondered if you'd seen media request about NPD.

Hi there queen, no need to lurk , come join in ! Just looked at that link , i think shes going to struggle as my understanding is that not many people are officially diagnosed . I dont think shes very well informed about what shes asking due to the gaslighting comment.

Ive got some stuff on Ebay at the moment , including a couple of books about twats . Ex arrived earlier and had " that " look to him , a smug look that i know so well. Eventually he delivered his punchline " Did you sell your book about Narcissists ?".

I remained casual and asked him what the interest was . He commented on other stuff ive bought with that awful smug gleefull look they have. I commented he perhaps needs a hobby if hes gone to so much trouble to track down his ex wifes ebay account. He then claimed he had stumbled across it by coincidence.

Thing is , it is a relativeley new account made within the last few months , hes never used my pc and i genuineley cant think how he would know my username. Not a big deal , but a reminder of his " Need to know everything " mentality. I,ll see how he reacts when i put his precious record collection on next week !

< when I put his precious record collection on [ebay] next week > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAh!!
Oh, please tell us

I have been lurking on this thread, and keep starting posts which I cannot submit..

so instead, I will just say 'yes, there lots here that sounds like my life - and can I join - even though I will probably be silent...'

Sorry, can I just ask, is there any treatment for this? I really identify with your point 4 about needing love/care to an extreme, but not diagnosed with anything other than depression though would love not to feel that way if possible. I have a mad ex too but think he is the other way; cares what strangers think but not people (at least me) he was intimate with, and not caring about love at all. Sorry if I've misinterpreted!

Hi Smowmama and Wibbly ,
Wibbly , are you thinking YOU are narcissistic or have i misunderstood ? From everything ive read if you even consider it your not , a narc will not consider theres something wrong , its everyone elses fault. Most people who read anythig about Narcs usually think " Oh my god , thats me "!. Its not so .

I have read that with decent counselling ect ect its possible for these people to improve their behaviour , but to be honest i dont beleive it . The reasons / explanations cover biochemical brain problems / childhood issues / plain nastiness and spiritual deficiency. Im inclined to think its the latter.

Its not unusual for them to treat their family like shit while putting on a face to everyone else either , apearances are everything , they,ll feed of anyone they can.

dignified I'm so glad that you've said that, when I've been reading through the narcissistic info I have wondered if I could possibly be the one, instead of my ex.

Another question though...my exes ex-wife had two affairs, the last one she finally left him for someone else...all along I had put his behaviour down to the fact that he was frightened of being left again...however I know that this isn't he case now...but my question is that he always said that if anything happened to her he would be devastated..in fact the night before he went he said in an emotional out-pouring that he would never have left her...to me he still seemed to love her...in fact over the years I did think that as he had never seemed to get over her I had really encouraged him to consider giving it another go, but he was adament that he didn't want to...sorry going round the houses here, but my question is that could a true narcisssist still feel what appeared to be love for an ex?

Antaalya , yes , i think they could , but i dont think its love ,i dont think they can love. Its possible he still considers her to be a supply , they will willingly go back to an old source if a new one isnt providing what they want.

There are other possibilitys though. Narcs are vengefull and often fantasize about revenge. I would imagine if she gave him the boot he could well hate her but disguise this . After all how many of us would idolise someone who cheated on us twice and dumped us ?

The other possibility is that he has made these things obvious to you to deliberateley hurt you and make you feel shit. Even if he genuineley still had feelings for her , to make this obvious to you is cruel and demeaning. Its my bet he would welcome a chance to get even with her . Has he talked about her a lot / does he seem to be overly interested in what shes doing nowadays ?

Re , thinking your a Narc. I remember ordering a book and settling down to read it. The more i read the more horrified i became , i easily posesses nearly all the qualitys the book described ( who doesnt ?) . For a split second i thought i was the problem , that my poor husband had been suffering all this time.
As i turned the next page it said " Youve probably recognised some of the qualitys of a Narc and are wondering if you are one. Dont worry , you are not , the fact your considering the possibility proves your not ".

I had to read it several times !

Just want to say that this thread has been so helpful in getting my Ex out of my head (if that makes any sense). I knew rationally that nothing I did would make a difference but at the same time communicated in a way that I thought would help. Even though it didn't and he even the most innocent of comments into attacks, leaving me feeling inadequate in some way. And all this after two and a half years!

Anyway, ta to you all, you have really helped me take another step or two out of the situation. And with every step away I feel stronger.

Thank you, their relaionship was confusing but he always maintained that he would never go back to her after what happened. I had never been able to make sense of it all. I know that if we were ever all in the same room together he would be on tenter-hooks. I've tried to make sense of it all over the years but I don't think that I ever will.

. I know that if we were ever all in the same room together he would be on tenter-hooks

I wonder if shes " seen " him , or has something on him ?

You're so spot on wih your thoughts dignified I'd always wondered the same.

Earlier this year we were invited to his friends 50th, his wife had been invited as she had bumped into the friend, all though really she had could have politly declined, she did turn up and that was one of the occassions when he was on tenter-hooks...but as much as I try to 'understand' what 'it' was I didn't all the years we were together, so I'm not going to get that now.

I've just seen him and my heart is pounding still, only past him in the car and really not sure if he saw me or not, in fact pulled up at traffic lights next to each other...when do I get to feel the indifference? not sure what I feel but I'm shaking.

Dionne , i know what you mean re the most innocent of comments. I would speak quietly and calmly , didnt matter , he would still explode twisting things id said and acting as if he,d misunderstood. For years i thought it was me , i was critical , overbearing , accusing , attacking, i was doing none of these things at all.

During these " conversations " he would shout over me , i would struggle to speak and he seemed incapable of hearing me. During one of his rants i tried desperateley to speak , he just wasnt listening. I very quietly made a comment about having " done his brother " , he heard that alright!. Of course i didnt " do " his brother really , but it showed that in fact he DID hear me , just chose to shout over me all the time. They are disgusting people.

Antalya , ive been thinking about the situation with the ex wife because ive got something similar going on . My ex is an arsehole and it took me years to stand up to him and get rid of him. He used to bully me and i used to be scared of him to a ridiculous extent. He bad mouthed me to everyone during our marriage , yet now , he speaks of me fondly .He has not yelled at me or been abusive to me for a long time , and wouldnt dare to.

He frequently uses our kids to try to get me to spend time with him , i dont know why this is, and he jumps at any opportunity to speak to me . Im not sure if he NEEDS us to be on good terms so he can minimise what hes done , i dont know if he secretly would love to inflict revenge on me. Perhaps he thinks he can suck a bit more life out of me yet.

Strangeley enough he had an ex when i met him , he talked about her a lot and claimed he hated her , but continued to show an interest ( she dumped him ). Guess where he went when i kicked him out , yep, after more than 20 years !

I wonder if they hold onto these things because they were dumped and it didnt quite run its course ?

I wonder if it is in part that they need to be seen as the 'nice guy'...the wronged party? The contact part seems to be importantTry being an ex-narcissist friend.

I've found this...possibly you've seen this before...there is a link, but thought that this excerpt was ineresting..
samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html
Remaining Friends with the Narcissist

Can't we act civilised and remain on friendly terms with our narcissist ex?

Never forget that narcissists (full fledged ones) are nice and friendly only when:

They want something from you ? Narcissistic Supply, help, support, votes, money? They prepare the ground, manipulate you and then come out with the "small favour" they need or ask you blatantly or surreptitiously for Narcissistic Supply ("What did you think about my performance?", "Do you think that I really deserve the Nobel Prize?").

They feel threatened and they want to neuter the threat by smothering it with oozing pleasantries.

They have just been infused with an overdose of Narcissistic Supply and they feel magnanimous and magnificent and ideal and perfect. To show magnanimity is a way of flaunting one's impeccable divine credentials. It is an act of grandiosity. You are an irrelevant prop in this spectacle, a mere receptacle of the narcissist's overflowing, self-contented infatuation with his False Self.

I'll keep looking and post anything tha may be of interest...sorry if all off this has been posted before..

Its interesting isnt it , i think its a mixture of those things . I think my ex sniffs round me largeley because he wants to be seen as the " nice guy " , you know , the guy whos all mature and wants whats best for the kids ect .I would imagine he would brag to his freinds that hes seen me so they can be shocked at his niceness , after all i did kick him out and do loads of rotton stuff !
He then then glow in their admiration of him.

I an also always tell when hes got a woman on the go as he trys to spend more time with me. I think he gets off on the fact he thinks i dont know, im quite positive SHE wouldnt like it and i think this gives him a thrill too.

And feeling threatened , absoluteley . My ex is definateley threatened by me , i know stuff about him that would make peoples toes curl. I think he likes to check im not about to grass on him. If fact i should reword the " wanting to spend time " and replace it with monitoring. Yes , he likes to monitor me occasionally to reassure himself im not going to snitch i think.

Im fortunate really as mine is very transparent , i can tell by his face when hes up to something. I never remark about his twattishness , he knows i know, knows i see him.

No, it's always good to get a fresh perspective. Especially as the "Narcissistic hangover" is so hard to get rid of! I can only imagine what hell it must be to handle DC contact meetings, each one offering your Narc another potential chance to squeeze some more out of you.

I thought some people might be reassured by this page about PD fleas - disordered behaviours that result from living with a disordered person! www.outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/Fleas.html

Antalya , i think it takes a long time to loose the shakes , heart pounding ect. Just a phone call had that effect on me for a long time. For a while i became obsessed with finding out all i could about Narcs , and the more i learned the less he bothered me.

When i look at him now i see an overweight balding little man whos quite pitifull, i wonder how he ever had that effect on me. I used to struggle to verbalise why i felt such dread and fear when i saw him , i think the fear was that he might have SAID something , as daft as that sounds .

They are masters at pushing your buttons and making you feel shit , they know exactly what to say to hurt and successfully feed on any self doubts or weaknesses you have . The dread i used to feel when i saw him was undescribable . Now i just think " Fuck , youve got fat "! I think you,ll feel that for as long as you have to , its a reminder , a warning system that danger is nearby , sounds dramatic i know.

Re the party , it sounds more and more like shes got something on him , maybe he did something while they were married that hes scared shitless she will tell people about.

Hmmm..reading a bit more and so might have some more to post soon...if I'm over posting or double posing, please just tell me.
Perhaps it could be the keeping tags on you, so in a way he can still have that knowledge to control? Have you seen/daed anyone else since your split? if so how did he re-act? or how do you think that he would re-act?

For my ex, it was very important that he was perceived as the nice guy...in fact he told me within the first couple of weeks what a nice guy he was!!!..even giving me specific examples of benevolence. I think that he may be concerned that he isn't considered as a nice guy by my friends / family, it would probably matter to him as we live in a fairly small area and so everyone knows each other... I've often wondered what my epitaph will be, probably something along the lines of she's just bitter!! but although close friends and family know what I think of him truly for others I'm very non-committal.

I have dated yes , but ive kept it quiet as i know he would take it out on the kids and be an arsehole. Hes a nosy fucker too , even down to stalking me on ebay , loves to know everything , it gives him a massive thrill.If the dcs say anything at all , just in passing , he will repeat it back at some stage , even if its something pathetic like " x says you went to such a place the other week ?". Im like so what ?

This is usually said with a smug grin and he watches my reaction carefully . It annoys me to be honest but im always cool and dont react as i know he would relish making me feel uncomfortable. I am very guarded with him. Actually the ebay thing really infuriated me but i didnt react.

Despite this he says very little about himself , he mostly talks about other people , hes very guarded and i never hear what he thinks or feels about something , its usually just gibberish gossip about others and stuff from the news.

He too always brags about how nice he is , constantly claiming that everyone says hes so nice, he also talks about himself in the third person affording himself qualitys that he just doesnt have.

How long did it take you to be able to disengage from him totally and stop yourself from re-acting? I was shaken before by my force of feelings when I saw my ex and would love to get to that point of indifference...one thing though that I do think will help, is to stop dating, I was tying myself in knots...and quite honestly think that I need to give myself some more time to get back on an even keel.

It's been pointed out to me by a close friend, who's judgment I trust, that I'm still displaying a lot of anger, as I wasn't effing and jeffing all the time, then I wasn't aware of this. It's been nearly 5 months though so I would like to move on at some point. How long did it take you before you felt able to date again?