NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Unbelievable Grace, good linking! good to see this thread. I really learnt so much on TheRealMe's NPD threads 1&2.

So sorry about what has happened pm. Do your best to get some rest this weekend. Can I ask if you have gone to or are considering counselling?

PM, I would still talk with a solicitor some time very soon. The coming and going of your XH needs to be sorted out, and also the situation with your DS. If Monday arrives and there's no sign of them, you may need to get a residency order on an emergency basis if you don't already have one. If you have one the police will need to enforce it.

Every twattish ex accuses the mother of the children of being unfit and threatens to call in SS, it seems -- however silly it may sound, some of them really do, so be prepared in case he decides to call your bluff too. Since this weekend with the XH had been prearranged, having your DS there won't look as if you were giving consent to the X to have him there permanently, but be prepared to fight your corner on Monday.

I would like to but have so much history and had so much previous counselling that it will be a bit of a task to fiNd the right person - especially in this part of the UK.

usually,they get overwhelmed at the assessment/history take. Plus I manage a counselling/therapy service locally for nhs.Makes referral complicated as limited pool and again.find when I get asked advice re mental health by counsellor.

But in theory ,will attempt.

Wow, Pinemartina, sorry you had to go through all that. I hope you sort it, and yes I would be changing locks or getting some kind of orders put in place re x accessing house, and residency if poss.

I hope things work out and you get some rest, physical and emotional!

Just wanted to ask some people on this thread about my current situation, have posted here and updated further down the thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lone_parents/1024696-Can-he-take-him-overnight

I think my XP may have NPD or something similar. He is definately emitionally abusive and has started accusing me of abusing his son(not true, he's just trying to throw anything he can at me I think, I mentioned the emotional abuse a while ago to him b4 we split and he has been using it against me ever since) If any of you could comment on above thread or lead me to other helpful posts that would be great!

Pinemartina, you are waking up
I know it's knackering and hideous, but it's a damn sight better that repeating the whole sorry shitstink over and over again. I'm so glad you had reliable RL support - hope your weekend is enjoyable and UNEVENTFUL!

ValiumSingleton - welcome :) I can't say I'm glad you needed to read about these nutters but am VERY glad it's helping.

Freedom , if he doesnt turn up within half an hour i would go out , anywhere , it doesnt matter , i just wouldnt be available, and no i wouldnt let him go overnight.

Dont let him intimidate you , hes a knobber , he claims your abusing your son , yet he hasnt alerted anyone or applied for custody ? Bollocks , they all do this and never consider the fact that should it go to court they will be asked why they have left their child with a neglectfull loon or whatever they accuse you of being.

I would get a soliciter to be honest to outline the boundaries and warn re the abusive texts . Keep the texts to show a soliciter , or the police if you need to . In truth i dont think theres much he can do , yes he can apply to the courts but then his weed addiction comes into question doesnt it .

PM, perhaps you can leave the key in the door to prevent him just walking in for now.

Am off for the weekend and just want to thank you all hugely and enormously for being there for me through all this....

You are all WONDERFUL

MN is the best support and validation I have had in my life.

Dignified, thx. I wish I could go out. During the day thats a possibility, but in the evenings its DS's bed time so I would have to be in. The other reason I'm sad to admit is that I'm scared of the consequences.... jeez did I just say that? He's never been violent but is passive agressive etc etc. I guess I am scared of him, of what, I dont know. Something I have to get through I guess.
Just to clarify, its HIS son he said I abused, he has an 8yo by a previous woman. He see's him half the week, and has joint custody (so he stays in his house).
Although saying that he asked me the other week if I was starving our DS to get him to like certain foods! All underlying implications....
When you say get a solicitor? sorry I am clueless to all this! I would be entitled for legal aid I think, would I be able to get a solicitor through this without taking the matter further at this stage?

I dont get it , why is he coming round at bedtime ? Re soliciter , you can just go get some advice , or have him write on your behalf , its really up to you , but once you go and hear that these idiots cant push you around about access ect its a lot easier saying No.

If you find you cant get legal aid , many local womens centres have a soliciter there one morning a week , its completeley free. You dont have to be black and blue to attend either. You can probably find one on the net , or womens aid will give you the number for one near you.

I think being scared of them is completeley normal considering how theyve behaved . Is it possible to have perhaps your mum present when he calls or a freind ? Take steps to protect yourself , you dont have to take his insults.

It would be crazy not to take it to the courts. An agreement between the two of you, even one brokered with a solicitor, isn't worth the paper it's printed on without the stamp of the court. Having a judge sign off on a residency order means it can be enforced. Anything less is a gentlemen's agreement and one of the parties here is not a gentleman, and that person is not you, PM. You must go to court and get it nailed down.

There's an organisation called McKenzie Friends -- look around this site for info and some ideas about representing yourself in court if needs be.

Dignified, if your last was to PM, her mum isn't exactly the person to call on for support.

Iseegraceahead, I think it was in reply to my post up thread

Thanks dignified, we arranged for him to come at 4pm, he was 3 hours late, even though I told him not to come. I think becuase we have recently split he thinks he can just turn up anytime still. He used to turn up at night all the time (after promising to be here by 2pm or something).

My Mum lives in a differnt town, and to be honest I never know when he will call.

I think I definately need to get some advice so I know where I stand and what he can and cant do.

Hope you don't mind me joining in here, was recommended to this site by pinemarta. I have sat here for three days reading and also articles about narcissism, I've sat here with my mouth open with disbelief. The profiles that I've read fit him perfectly and many of the threads I could have written, I'm still in shock and can't quite believe it.

I still can't quite believe that this was the man that I loved...but after months of guilt that I hadn't made it work, and drove him away with my 'unreasonable behaviour' I know why....it really wasn't me at all, it wasn't his star sign, there's nothing wrong with me, there really wasn't a need to disappear and go to ground for days until I admitted that the dress didn't do anything for me, apologize and agree never to wear it again, my weight is OK..I'm the weight that I am, and I wasn't refusing to loose weight 'just to defy him'.

The coldness, the absolute selfishness, the total lack of empathy, the arrogance, the criticism, the withdrawal for days/weeks, the transferance of guilt, the total lack of guilt, the feeling that nothing I ever did was good enough, the trying to get things back as they were without knowing what/how things changed, how he had changed from the charming self proclamed 'knight in shinning armour', the feeling of totally being drained of all emotion at the end, his disappearance at the end without any explanation after years together, the new women after a very short time, my absolute dependence on him and devastation when he went...all of it now explained.

I'm a mixture between shock/great anger and relief..how could he have done that, I'm intelligent, why did I let him.

Phew! Glad I got that wrong, freedom! Everything keeps coming back to boundaries, doesn't it? Setting them, then maintaining them around people who think they own you (or you're part of their imaginary world, so they can make you do what they want. Ugh.)

Antalya, I recognise what you're saying - welcome! You read this stuff with a dawning sense of horror mixed with relief, don't you? And you ... can't ... tell ... anybody, or rather, you try but can never explain why you feel so upset about it. Did you rant, rage & wail? I did. He divorced me for unreasonable behaviour and I bloody was unreasonable. In truth, I'd lost all sense of reason!

Can you put your finger on when it started? I think most of can see where it started early on, but at that stage was "just a bit odd" - he was stressed, etc - then there's a moment when he 'turned'. My X's turning point was nothing more than a comment, but I remember the sinking feeling: all those overlooked moments had suddenly come together. We were signing the marriage resgister at the time.

How did you try to cope? What happened? Don't answer if you don't want to, of course.

Thank you IGA, I don't mind answering but truthfully I'm still a little shell shocked by it all, but I do feel a HUGE sense of relief. I'm switching between MN and reading about N on the web, the more I read the more I'm left open mouthed with reconciliation.

I have spoken to a couple of friends, truthfully I didn't expect to be believed, I thought that the reaction would get would be total scepticism, but when I've explained they can't believe how much he matches, one close friend is so angry that he has done this to me...and she is normally the calm one!

Looking back I would say from just under a year in..he changed from being a totally adoring partner to someone so cold who cut me off for days until I contacted him out of my mind with worry..the dependency was already truly set..and I would apologize and he would magnanimously agree to forgive..after telling me of course that he really didn't know if it was worse carrying on...which would send me into an even worse frenzy of worry and promises of trying harder and even more comprises.

Thank you so much for asking, my answers may be a little disjointed though, but it is good to have someone to talk to who understands the emotions...you described them perfectly.

Everything that I have read over the last few days has been like putting a jigsaw together and finding all the pieces...I always knew that there was something that wasn't quite right after the first year but couldn't quite put my finger on it.

In front of hs friends he was always so lovely to me, but normally I would be so upset by something that had happened that they would think that I ws the moody and difficult one. It's only now that I'm realsing that it isn't normal to be on AD's just to cope with my realtionship, as I was from about a year in.

Oh...and I can so identify with the loosing all sense of reason, he really did know how to push those buttons until he got a reaction

ItsGraceAgain, it's Magaly, I name-change every now and then...... but I think I have processed it and made sense of it all, or as much as I can. When I remember it all now, I some times I am betraying my old self by not feeling angry any mroe. does that make sense?! Mostly I am glad I'm not angry all the time any more though.

Thx for sharing Antalya1, I think the more stories on here the better.
I remember when my XP changed. It was about 2-3 months in. He had agreed to give up smoking weed. Well I remember him saying over the phone that he wasnt going to anymore and if I loved him I should accept him for who he was. And basically tough, thats the way it was, so up to me what I wanted to do. I found out I was pregnant 2 days later. This was the guy who was swearing undying love for me on the 3rd date. (Which admittedly I knew was a little dysfunctional yet was still taken in). I think if I hadnt been pregnant I probably got rid of him.

So I'm interested, all the books etc say there are always telltale signs at the beginning that they are abusers, what were yours everyone? Did you see any?

For me it was the coming on so strong at first. Also, I remember I was trying not to go to his house too early on so we would wait to have sex. He asked me to come round on the 4th date, (about a week and a half in). I said I'd prefer to go out and take things slowly.... all of a sudden the man who was texting me so much didnt text me back for quite a few hours. I remember feeling a sense of desperation to keep him happy. That I'd done something wrong. ALREADY!

Another sign was he told me that he could get quite jealous and didnt agree with us having opposite sex friends, especially if they were XP's. So many things if I think about it. Hopefully I'll recognise it next time.

So I'm interested, all the books etc say there are always telltale signs at the beginning that they are abusers, what were yours everyone? Did you see any?

First date he told me he would never settle down as he liked going out too much to " see what he could find ".

He turned up unanounced and uninvited the following day, and the day after, and the day after.

He said that his family and freinds wouldnt aprove of me but he didnt care ( cheeky fucker ! )

We had one of those stay up all night talking things , where he asked me about family , past boyfreinds ect. I thought it was interest but it was collecting ammo , finding out vulnerabilitys.

He didnt usually ask me many questions and volunteered very little about himself.

Had a massive porn collestion and sexually was like a teenager.

I found out he had made up fictional girlfreinds where as in fact he had been single for years.

He was terrible in bed , i thought it was nerves but he had long term premature ejaculation which i later found out wasnt , he just chose to ejaculate when he felt like it.

He claimed undying love for me within a week ( i know , i know !)

When i tried to finish things with him he wouldnt have it and basicly bullied me into continuing it.

He was snooty and thought he was better than everyone and was two faced .

Road rage and bad driving.

Kept a diary about other people ( and my periods !)

And i went on to marry him ! The joke is i always knew deep down really.
The biggest sign was a funny feeling , its hard to describe , i felt slightly uncomfortable with him , In the early days him coming round uninvited pissed me off but i was already wary of upsetting him. ive felt that feeling since and now pay close attention . In fact i felt it last night with a man ive been seeing , theres been no other signs but i think its enough to bin him over.
Grace - you ... can't ... tell ... anybody, how true .

I've still a lot of reading and processing to do....but I would say that the early signs for me that did stand out at first were:

He absolutely adored me from date 2 onwards - couldn't do enough for me, bouquets of flowers, loads of compliments, offers of help, telling me that he was my 'knight in shinning armour' etc. etc.

Alot of my 'signs' were flashes of instincts, rather than concrete happenings, but I do remember:

3rd date - restaurant, plied with wine, I was clearly very upset over something that had really upset me and my ds that day and tried to tell him about it, didn't seem to register with him, told me he had something for me at home, massive bouquet of flowers, pressured into sex, felt obliged but still upset, did the deed, cried as felt so shit about ds upset...didn't register with him at all.

Total lack of empathy for others noticed very early on....people that got into debt, lost houses, couldn't move on after relationships, got upset if partners had affairs etc. only stupid selves to blame regardless of their circumstances

Took absolutely no blame at all for breakdown of marriage...all his exes fault

Told me that he had absolutely no contact with any of his exes

Various stories about exes, i.e. saw someone for two months, she fell for him, he said seeya...couldn't have worked out because she was fat!!! absolutely ok to shag her though!

couple of months in - getting very very shitty with worker at bowling ally - remember thinking at the time -ooh..that reaction is a bit over the top!

Truthfully, I'm still really struggling with this all..and although he appears to fit the 'criteria' I still find it really hard to accept...one area tha he does seem to differ from when I read through all the posts, is his behaviour at the end, he wen wooossshhh...never heard from him agaiin, but alot of the posts on here are still struggling to get them out of their lives

The similarity in these posts and my own experience is freaky!
Antalya1 if we didn't have a DD together my ex would have disappeared out of my life with a 'whoooooosh' too I think. As it stands he completely blanks me, refuses to acknowledge my existence which on one hand is good but on the other is rather unnerving.

He also had an ex who he lived with for 3 years, never told her he loved her because she wasn't his type He would meet other women and leave her but always go back to her in between relationships. When he left her for 'the one', that was 'the one' before me, she attempted suicide and he boasted about it, seemingly very proud that this woman tried to kill herself because of him, because she loved him so much she couldn't live without him. His words.

I left him in February and as far as I know he hasn't met another victim anyone else yet so this is the first time in his life he has ever been truly alone, with no back up to fill the void until the next victim comes along.

Because his ex wife had had an affair - twice - (she maintains that he pushed her to it through total lack of attention...hmmmmmm...) he was always really strong about monogamy in relationships - fine I agree 100%...words said many many times were, 'I'll always finish a relationship before starting a new one, it;s fine to flirt but not to take it any further'....beginning to think if that was all a lie to ???

If I go and put a brick through his car window with a little note attached...ohh saying something along the lines of "you fucking t**t how dare you mess with my head all those years and make me think it was all my fault and I want the fucking sat nav back" would it be accepted as a perfectly understandable reaction by my local bobbies? it would seriously make me feel a hell of a lot better! Ohh how I've fantasised the last few days.

ohh...think a I may be displaying a tad of anger at the moment!

NO! It would give him the opportunity to turn the tables and make you look like the crazy one!!

My exN claimed he was big on monogamy too, told me all of his past girlfriends had cheated on him and that he would never trust another woman ever again. What he failed to tell me was that he was just as guilty in cheating on his past girlfriends, somehow he manages to justify his own behaviour.

His best friends partner gave me a run down of his history with women, she filled in all the gaps for me and spoke up when she could see what he was doing to me. He hates that woman with a passion now, viciously detests her for telling me. Just like he detests me now for leaving him.

.....I did used to throw pebbles at his window to try and get his attention when he went into shut down mode...god I must sound really mad...I did turn into a mad bitch from hell occassionally...but now I realise that was all part of it...ok perhaps not a brick, but I'm a pretty darn good shot with pebbles now!!

TFM did he cheat on you?