NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

He says not but I don't believe him. I know for a fact that he was still seeing his 'number one' for the first few months of our relationship. He took out my best friend behind my back and he had an emotional affair with a pretty young colleague not long before I left him. She sent him a 'merry christmas xx' text on Christmas morning and despite my asking him not to reply he did, right in front of me, even adding the kisses, kisses he never put on the end of texts to me. In my book all of that constitutes cheating but somehow not in his . He was always reminding me that if I ever cheated on him I would be out, my bags would be packed and on the street. There is no way he would have tolerated from me what I tolerated from him. He was/is a prize GIT

Also, he used to disappear for hours on end. I could be sat in the lounge and would just see him driving past the house, off to wherever he was going. He would never tell me he was going, he would just go. Other times he would cause a row over the most stupid of reasons and then tell me he was going out to get away from me. I used to wonder then if he was seeing someone else.

The first time I clapped eyes on him (at a business meeting) my inner voice said, loud and clear, "That man will destroy you if you let him." Well, I put it down to being tired but it sort of intrigued me. I was intrigued! God help me! I ended up being put on his business, which I now assume he engineered. Seemed like an intriguing coincidence at the time ...

... we kept bumping into each other, which wasn't the sign of a mystery "connection" as I stupidly thought. It was a sign of being stalked & manipulated.

Turning up at mine unexpectedly: check. Usually, I now realise, when he thought I might have had the opportunity to meet someone else.

First proper date: I was late, he went ballistic - that was the flash of rage the books mention.

Confided his vulnerabilities very early on - including that he had used prostitutes and had done some small crimes. All in the past, of course, when he was young & foolish. Couldn't have told anyone else about it, he felt he could trust me. He continued to see whores, and was committing some quite sophisticated frauds by then.

Borrowed small amounts of money, forgot to pay them back. But resented small amounts owed to him, even years later.

Wanted me to move in with him after a couple of months (I didn't).

Was rude & aggressive to salespeople.

Went missing at parties. This is the one thing I thought could be fully attributable to Asperger's - until I read the Heartless Bitches page!

Other people's opinions of him varied so widely, they sounded as if they were describing different people.

Was interested in S&M games. The one time I tried, he freaked me out so didn't go down that road.

The more I look back, the more I see. Hell's bells, I've learned a lot!!

Shut down mode! Disappearing! yes, yes!

Hiding under the duvet to sulk.

Its funny how a lot of us saw signs from day one, yet still decided to get involved?!

But they do draw you in.
My XP said his X cheated on him too. I can see at the time it was the only way she could get out. She was living with him and they have a DS together. He told me she used to lock herself in the bathroom for hours on end. Now I know why!
I dont think my XP was a liar though. I've dated two compulsive liars, (they were both emotionally abusive and commitmentphobe too) and I got a very strong intuition that they were lying to me and I was spot on. Yet with XP I never had that.

Antalya1 its a good idea to write him a letter (that you never send) telling him exactly what you think of him etc etc... Its a good way to move through the anger.

ISGA Yes, why are we always drawn to them as they appear mysterious! or a challenge or something!

My XP defiantely had shut down mode, that was how he controlled me so well. He never lived with me, so if he didnt get what he wanted, sex, cooking, etc or if I said something wrong (something perfectly acceptable to me, I just thought he was oversensitive) he would be kissing his lips, (carribean thing) and be silent yet permeate the whole house with his foul mood.... and normally would walk out and go home.

It reminds me of a book, the men that go woooooosh... 'He's scared, she's scared, the underlying fears that sabatage your relationships' It explains why we are often attracted to men like this... if there were a room full of fantastic guys, we'd pick out the one that is a dick..

Dignified, great your noticing the signs with the new guy..... Let us know what you decide and if your right!

Remembered some more.

He was in debt, always had been , and would happily commit fraud to get what he wanted and screw people over.

He would record people and be proud of it and boast.

He would lie and big himself up massiveley exagerating every small thing.

He was jealous ( thats because he was cheating and i think he always had someone on the go ) and he would even root in the bin for " evidence ".

He had poor personal hygeine and was obsessed with his arsehole , he would show it to me on a regular basis , asking if it was normal or if it was red ect. I saw more of that than i did of him !

He was obsesses with his poos and would talk about them constantly , he would often dash to the toilet clutching his bottom like a toddler does

He had poor self respect and would do loud nasty farts no matter where we were

He would explode regularly if i dared to have a differant thought or dared to feed a certain way.

He was a cryer , and would sob and drool and snot threatening to kill himself.

And to think i used to be that scrared of this idiot i would literally shake lol. If he ever even dares to give me shit nowadays i laugh and say " What are you going to do, show me your arsehole ?"

FF "if there were a room full of fantastic guys, we'd pick out the one that is a dick.." I like that..

I did start to keep a diary, but then discovered MN. This helps so much to be able to come on here, and although I do have flashes of anger..on the whole, I just feel absolute relief that it's not me, I'm not just crap at relationships. I will be OK but although I may have said it before, MN has been a life-saver...without it I would never have known what he was and probably would have always blamed myself a little...the last few days have been unbelievable.

The thing that I'm really scarred off his bumping into him, we live fairly close and what my/his reaction will be.

My ex only moved in with me he last 6 months or so..that's when the cracks really began to show and the last vestiges of my ability to be able to 'fix' things ran dry...

I wonder if they know that there is anything slightly 'skewiff' about themselves and they realise that their behaviours arn't 'the norm??' I have thought this over the last few days, I wonder if at the very least they get flashes??....on rare occasions my ex could "display" guilt.. was that also an act?

Tomorrow night I have a date from t'internet, I took my profile off but we have stayed in touch by text.... he seems "normal"...I feel a hell of a lot better and more able for this than I have in the last few weeks...but already I have him down as suspect, based on well...absolutely nothing really...my present mind set seems to be..treat them all as enemies until proven otherwise.. not a very healthy mode know...any tips??

Did you all know whilst you were with them that they had this, or was the discovery after the event? Have you ever felt he need to discuss it with them....asking because for the first ever I feel absolutly free of having to sort things out and I have no desire to.

haha! thats funny! Dignified Reading these threads I realise how many 'dysfunctional' relationships I've had. My second boyfriend was a cryer. If he had had a few, he would break down in tears telling me how much he loved me. Thinking back I think he may have been on E. He told me he had done it in the past but not anymore. hmmm He was proposing after 1 month. Then left me to go and work a ski season in france, where he turned into the biggest nobber ever.

Cheers Freedom.
Im not sure what to think about it to be honest , in fact ill say and you guys can say what you think. Im actually embaressed because i know i didnt respond properly.

I see him casually , known him a long time, we are not officially " seeing each other " as i dont want to do that. I mostly see him around my dcs , they are not involved or aware. There was an invite to go round which i did.
When i arrived ( left my car at home )he looked a bit fed up , i assumed work or something . Asked him and he went onto this ridiculous thing where he was wondering why i only ever stay when my dcs are at their dads. ( Umm isnt it fucking obvious ?)

I said this , yet he sat there , quite clearly furious , saying very little and looking very angry , not looking at me ect.
I enquired as to the real problem, and stated he was making me feel uncomfortable so to spit it out. He continued to look angry and repeated what he said initially.

I bizareley explained AGAIN that it is not an option to leave my dcs overnight and its ridiculous to mention it , he said that it wasnt that but that he felt something had changed. He came round ater a few minuites and we didnt discuss it further.

To be honest i am angry and upset and feel horribly manipulated and cant beleive i fell for it. My leaving my dcs overnight is not an option and ridiculous to even mention it. I dont have to explain anything to anybody, yet i bizareley did while he sat there looking off , knowing full well i was feeling uncomfortable. Also i didnt have my car which i dont feel was a coincidence .

I feel hes been successfull in manipulating me into explaining something that is ridiculous while he sits there doing the angry act.

I wish id been very clear and acknowledged verbally what he was doing, i shouldve immediateley said " What ?" several times , then repeated back to him " You are angry that i will not leave my dc salone overnight so i can come round here for your benefit ?" i shouldve stated that im not about to start explaining myself , nice try at being an arsehole but im going , goodbye and fuck off.

Im actually really really cross and find it very difficult to deal with this sort of unexpected shit on the spot . I dont now though , there will be a very clear conversation later and he wont like it. Should also add that there had been a conversation before i arrived and there was no hint of this .

Fucking arsehole is old news.

I agree with you, D. Nobber behaviour. Well rid!

Dignified, I have three children (all grown up now) from my marriage and my ex used to expect me to stay overnight at his, leaving my children alone. He absolutely refused to ever stay at my house and also refused to understand that I would not leave my children alone to spend the night with him.

Often I would arrive at his house, following a telephone invite, to find him sat in his chair watching TV. He wouldn't even look up from his programme to say 'hi' and I would just sit there like a lemon waiting for him to acknowledge me. Why the hell I didn't just walk out of there I have no idea!! I think I must have been as crazy as him and I too am embarrassed at some of the things I tolerated.

I love galaxy, cheers.

I dont think it was about me staying , he KNOWS its not an option , i think he just literally enjoyed having me explain myself while i was in his house , no car ect , probably made him feel all clever and powerfull , whatever it was about , once is enough for me , and theres been no apology or acknowledgement about it.

Might go round later to collect a few bits and get him told that i didnt apreciate it , i wont be coming round again , and i hope hes got a shitty stick to keep all the women away who will willingly leave their dcs alone to spend the night with him . Snort.

wow I have read through this thread, I just wanted to add for now, thank you for the links Grace, they may come in usefull to me, as I am sure they have and will for others x

I just wanted to add, that somehow I felt that ex was a gay in denial also, I don't really know why, maybe it was his want of anal sex with me, and his poo talk! I foolishly promised him anal sex for his thirtieth and when it came to it I could not do it, when I think of it, that was when he started to punish me, we had dd2 by then and he did not seem to want me to be at home with the children, he wanted me studying to earn lots of money or running an internet comany he wanted someone else to have children, he seemed to not want the children to be mothered... I wonder now if this is because when he was 2 his mother studied and became a teacher and it was a jealousy thing for him with the children?!

He told me when we first dated that his mate would be jealous of me, as I was tall, big boobs, slim and blonde, his mates ideal woman, we had before meeting through a dating site spoken on the phone. I sometimes wonder if that coupled with my childhood training for being controlled that I had at 22 not dealt with was what was the attraction to me!

I remember in 2002, I was pre menstrual and I had returned from a girls weekend away, I cried that weekend, I did not know why, I could not put my finger on it, I got home and I just wanted to leave the house and have some time to myself to work out what the problem was, I think at the time I knew something was wrong but I did not know what! I was being controlled, abused and punished by this stage and the honeymoon period was definatly over, his true self was emerging and i did not realise I thought he was the man I first dated!

I think my ex felt threatened by my children and wanted me to put him before them. I do think he thought he was better than me though and that he thought he had 'rescued' me. I was a single parent BUT I had a damned good job, my own house, ran a nice car and had money in the bank, I didn't need rescuing. He took credit for a lot of my success even though I had it all before he came into my life.

Another interesting fact I discovered was that he has never ever dated a single woman. All of his previous girlfriends have been single mums, all of them! And, all of us have been older than him too.

Also exh used to phone me loads each day, always wanted to know where i was what I was doing, he would be in a panic if we were late home, if he had a business trip I used to say it was better for us if he would go then if he asked me when would be a good time for the family, I loved the freedom, we could do what we liked during the holiday, come home when we liked etc, basically living for us rather than for him...

Rescuer mode Timeforme! he seemed to want the vounerable!

Mummie , i often suspected that my ex was gay in denial type thing hence his arsehole and poo obsession , he once actally asked me if i would do stuff to his bum.

He always whined as well, wanted love , affection , cuddling , telling how much i loved him ect , ugh , i used to hate it and yell " Stop trying to suckle on my titty ffs , your a grown man ".

I can laugh now but ugh " shudder ".

due to ex feeling too hot, after sex I could only hold on to his arm for comfort, i felt so unloved, no cuddle afterwards!

I have a book here (yes I have a library! ) Called Homecoming, Reclaiming and Championing your inner child by Bradshaw. He says that people that are obsessed with arses, arseholes, anal sex, poo or wee have wounds with their 'toddler self' Which is interesting as I think Dr vankin(?) says that narcissists are stuck at toddler age.

Great your recognising the symtoms Dignified. And get out straight away. That is definately emotional abuse!

That is definately emotional abuse!

It is isnt it. Feels funny seeing that written down. Have been racking my brains trying to think of other odd behaviour , signs of being a shit and honestly havent see any and its been quite a long time and i literally scrutinize him quietly.

I am obviously very cautious hence it not being official , i didnt want to be public about it then look stupid . He had not had a good day at work yesterday and i know his ex wife has agravated him a little lateley.

I wonder if he is a taker outer onner iyswim , ie , he had a bad day with his boss and his ex , both are people he feels intimidated by and thought hed make himself feel back in control by taking it out on me ( projecting ?)

Anyway , it wont be happening again under any circumstances. If this was on relationships id be told i was over reacting / he was probably feeling rejected , give him a chance ect ect. Was absoluteley nothing to do with staying over , he just had nothing else to be pissed off about ( cos im nice ) so made up this stupid shit , made me feel uncomfortable while im a guest in his house and no means to get home . Bullying Arsehole.

dignified, interesting after the anal stage has been written about on here to hear the language you are using to describe your narc!

dignified how long have you been with him?

Have been seeing him casually for about a year , but have known him much longer than that , although i still refer to myself as single . I would like to think there was a justification / reason / excuse , but No , i know twatty behaviour when i see it.

I have read that once you have one Narc you can easily end up with another , hence my caution. Theres been nothing else i can think of , this was unusual but possibly a tester , either way i recognise the feeling and the power trip he was on, trying to get me to justify / explain myself , i think he wanted me to PLEASE him , and he was clearly trying to control me emotionally ensuring i felt uncomfortable for his own gain. He can fuck right off.

I call everyone an Arsehole im afraid !