I'm a loving Dad who needs a female perspective!

[MadDaddy]

I've just signed up to mumsnet out of shear desperation (no jokes!) - DW and I have been having some problems recently and I could do with a female point of view! Bit nervous about the response you might give me... be kind!

I love my DW endlessly and would never consider having an affair, or leaving her, but we're struggling with increasingly differing sex drives. Most of the time I can cope with it ok, but at times the lack of intimacy between us makes me feel so lonely it feels like I'm being ripped apart.

I've tried talking to her about it but it never goes well and more often than not ends up with one, or both of us, in tears.

I could sit here for hours psychoanalysing the situation but figure it'd be better for me to just try and answer your questions and comment on your ideas as and when you post them.

Please help - just feeling low.

If my dh says "Honey, how about sex tonight" He gets this
and no action.

If he helps getting the chores sorted, has a shower, and comes to bed together with me, and just hug and cuddle, then the chances he is successful in taking things further is very high.

The worst thing is having a kiss and a bit of intimacy, and then hearing the words 'fancy a shag?'
Aaarghghghghghghghgh NO I DON'T
We have had one snog and I'm half-way through the washing up: get some bloody perspective!

Sorry for that little glimpse into my boring life

''Can't men just sort themselves out? IYKWIM. What do single men do?''

Does that apply to me as well MrsStig?

Whatever issues there were to the break down of the intimate aspect of my relationship, should I have just 'had a wank' to sort myself out?

Oh dear, dh, is that you?

I talked with my dh about the feeling like every kiss had to lead to sex and he was utterly utterly baffled. His view was that yes, he does get his, er, hopes, up every time but why is that bad?

I couldn't get across that it makes me shy of any intimacy because I feel I'm either going to let him down or end up having not very good sex because I'm tired and miserable. (Dh if that is you, it is usually good, but midnight after you've been out and I've been in with the dishwasher is Not A Good Time )

He did make the fair point that it was unreasonable of me to think that a kiss would never lead to sex .

But to repeat what everyone else has said, do the laundry a few times, and act like you would with someone you hadn't been married to for x years with y kids.

Crikey. What Mitz said.

This is so NOT about having an orgasm. Sex represents so much that can be good in a relationship - intimacy, desire, skin on skin, a way to show love. I was in a sexless relationship and it slowly kills you.

I don't think it is fair on anyone to hide behind tears. If it is an important issue for your partner, then it is an important issue full stop. Talk about it like grownups, if you can't do that, get some professional help. Both partners I think have to at least try to meet each other half way othewise I can't see it ending any other way than badly, in frustration and bitterness.

So many questions! I'll do my best...

We're both in our 30's but she's a few years older than me which (even if she doesn't accept it) is a factor I guess.

How often we have sex varies. On average it works out as somewhere between once a week and once every two weeks. I know that that may seem quite a lot but... let's just say that in a perfect world we'd have it a bit more often!

Other physical contact is minimal from her to me, but I regularly give her foot, back our leg massages. We rarely kiss each other although now I've thought about it I've brought that one on myself - I used to find out more than a little frustrating!

I may show her this yet, so be honest and please bear both of our feelings in mind!

We have thought about going to relate but it'd be hard for both of us to get off work or getting a babysitter. I'd be quite happy opening my heart you a counselor but I don't think it's her idea of fun. She very much sees it as my problem.

The difference in sex drive is genuinely the only problem we seem to have - hence why I'm so keen to sort something out!

We both work in professional (and quite high stress) jobs, she works 3 days a week, I work 5.

Our kids are 4 and 2 and both sleep well!

I'm pretty useful about the house and love spending time with the kids. She does all the cooking but that's her way of switching off and I'm the most appreciative audience!

Looking back on it, I can see that I should have spotted this earlier. We didn't live together before we got married and it took me a while to understand that the amount of sex we had before we got married wasn't going to increase when we did! When we did get married she pointed out in one row that because she did the cooking and cleaning, it was my job to do washing-up, DIY and making the effort in bed.

Everything else in our relationship is amazing! She is stuff and I tell her as much on a regular basis! I'm so in love with her I have to pinch myself! I'd do anything too make her happy.

We do occasionally get out together but more often than not there's a reason not to. I think she sees time like that independant of sex... sex is just one of those jobs that we fit in.

Discussing it together has brought out every emotion in both of us over the past 6 months or so. I've just tried to lay off it recently but I'm worried it'll fizzle out completely.

It's been going on for as long as we've been married really. Trying for kids obviously lifted my spirits! It takes her a while to get in the mood and that's simply time she rarely gets. No, actually that's wrong, she has loads of time, she just chooses to do other things (like watch mind numbing telly!).

I think I've just pushed her too hard, it kind off came to a head in may when we got away on out own for 3 days. I was expecting a dirty weekend, she wanted sleep. Both off us left upset and frustrated! Since then I've done everything I can around the house and tried to avoid emotional conversations.

If she were here she'd be lovely but would I imagine be pretty adamant that it's my problem for me to deal with.

The sex itself is ok, it can be a bit repetative, but any ideas I have to pep it up are gently, but steadfastly, refused.

Bring on the questions and thanks for being so kind!

OK, please don't show this to your wife! Especially where you said sex could be a bit repetitive...maybe it is, but don't tell her it won't help! She sounds very tired tbh. You may have to accept that for now sex may not be as frequent as you like, because you have small children. But they will get older and she'll get less tired. Can you get them babysat more often to give her/you both a chance to chill out with no pressure?

"she pointed out in one row that because she did the cooking and cleaning, it was my job to do washing-up, DIY and making the effort in bed."

Ditch the DIY and help with the cleaning, that will be a start.

Go on dates. (with her)

Tell her how beautiful she is.

Buy Monogamy (board game).

I don't think to say 'it is your problem for you to deal with' is a very healthy way for a relationship to work.

It matters to you - she at least needs to work with you to understanding what if anything you can both do about it. You are both in this relationship.

the excuse about not going to counselling because you can't afford it/can't get babysitters etc is a bit crap, and I know because I've used it. What could possibly be more important for you and for your children to keep this relationship on track?

OK, I know a lot of women, especially with young children, just don't fancy sex all that much. I am not saying they just have to lie back and think of England whenever their husband fancies a bit, but to say 'it's not my problem it's yours' is not, in my view, a very good sign.

There has to be some middle ground which will make you both feel respected and loved and (reasonably) sexually satisfied. But you will have to talk to each other to find where that is, or even if it exists. But that is a whole other problem.

But it would be so sad for your relationship to crumble just because you couldn't or wouldn't talk and sort things out.

MadDaddy how about just snuggling as she watches the tv?

Dh has adjusted his 'desires' due to my ill health but just knowing that just snuggling is not going to then leave him feeling unhappy has been a great relief.

We probably initiate it 50/50 and to be honest sometimes things hurt to much after a while that things have to cease before the finale.

2/6 times a month has been the average for the last 2 yrs and no kids.

Wow! More posts! In answer you the simple questions my personal hygiene is immaculate thank you (!) and she always claims that the molton brown black pepper body wash does it for her, but to no avail recently (and it's not cheap that stuff - I can't slap it on every day on the hope of...!). Oh, and neither of us are depressed. I'm pretty much doing what you're recommending which puts me at ease!
As for satisfying myself... I do! But it's not something she wants to be a part of and I hate that. When I do find a bit of quiet time to myself (!) thinking of her just makes me feel sickeningly lonely and thinking of anyone else just isn't the same. I only want her.

As for the sex being repetative, she knows and to give her her dues she tries so hard these days... just whish she's take the lead if you know what I mean.

Absolutely agree that there is no bigger libido killer than tiredness and if her first response to a weekend away is to sleep she is either chronically tired or possibly depressed.

If the only issue is tiredness I can recommend the 'going to bed as soon as the kids are asleep and then getting up again afterwards to watch bad TV/ iron/ get stuff ready for work' method. It avoids getting to 11pm and guiltily realising that actually you would much rather just sleep.

But I suspect there may be more to it and you need to talk to her again about it all- without making her feel bad about it. It not always easy to say the right thing- could you write it down and discuss it that way, avoiding emotional scenes?

Sorry - not advice, bud did ALL of the other ladies here think it could be their DH? I certainly did.

Sorry, cross posts- you say she is really trying- well that sounds like a tired woman who is doing her best. Firstly hang in there your children are still young and things will get so much easier over the next 2 years. What does she say when you talk about it?

No, mine eschews the exclamation mark.

Exclamation mark camouflage?

(also we had a shag the other day, so deffo not him)

No matter how hard I try she seems to see it as me trying to find fault with her. I don't think she believes there's a solution either. That can't help from her point off view.

N toice know I'm not the only bloke out there like this though - any of your dh's got any rights on the matter?

Thank you for all the support!

If you've had a few days away and all she wants to do is sleep then she must either be excessively tired or depressed. If one night away, fine but 3days and she just wants to sleep! Are you sure she's not depressed and just trying to hide it from you?

I had depression after my second but didn't even realise myself until DC2 was over 1yr. Kept it hidden from DH for quite a while as I felt like a failure. Having no sex drive and just wanting to sleep were 2 big indicators.

Is there any chance you could hold off for a month? Don't even hint at sex and see what happens. If after the month you have had no sex because she hasn't initiated it then gently talk to her about it. A month can seem like a long time but it will clarify a lot of things. Both of you will know that initiation is always coming from you and that you need to sort it out.

Sorry - on phone, not easy to type! Should have asked if your dh's had any thoughts on the matter!

No, not unless my DH has forgotten he has a third child!

Well my post pretty much is what DH did!

We would argue and I'd say he was always pettering me. Then when he didn't for a month I couldn't use that anymore. I realised that we could have gone on for years and I'd never have initiated it because I was feeling so crap about everything. We both realised that we needed to sort it out to save our marriage.

Incidently, we had and still have, a very good loving marriage. It was me having a problem and he was making it worse by seeing the problem as a sex problem when in actual fact it was an emotional problem. I was depressed, had no self-esteem and felt like a crap mother. Not that anyone would have guessed as I was bubbly, confident and jolly on the outside. When we both recognised this and started to address this, the sex sorted itself out.

pestering

Distilling the excellent advice and experience above: if you want more sex

1. remove the pressure completely. Stand back. Be patient. Let her come to you.
2. pull your weight. the two days she doesn't work are for the children's benefit, not so she can do the shopping and clean the loos. Nothing kills passion faster than festering resentment over workload.
3. don't paw her. She's had 4 years of being pawed and her body being someone else's territory. Give her a break.
4. find out what really turns her on and give it TIME to work. It is likely to be something abstract rather than something obvious (a little look, naughty ideas rather than a taut bum or the smell of your shower gel - sorry). Apparently it takes women 7 1/2 times longer to get aroused than men.

I do feel sympathy for both of you - the toddler years are tough tough tough. Good luck.