Would you take your DC awayfrom their (fantastic) father for selfish reasons?

[FallingWithStyle]

Ex and I split a couple of years ago I moved with dc to a new home within the area.

Ex sees dc pretty much daily, does overnights whenever he can (because he wants to) even if he's been working all day he'll still pop in to have dinner with dc or just to say goodnight. He really is a fantastic father and we are very good friends.

I moved to this area to be with him at the start of our relationship ten years or so ago. I've never enjoyed being here, doesn't feel like home and all my family are in the town I left (couple of hours drive away). I would LOVE to go back there, it would be great for dc to be near cousins, anunts and uncles - we're a very close family.

When we split I chose to stay here to facilitate the relationship between ex and dc and decided to put more effort into making this my home, But it hasn't worked, my hearts not in it and I've not realy made any friends here, acquaintences but not friends. I just don't feel invested in being here, like I'm waiting for the time to pass.

Its a possibility that I may have to move house soon, and its suddenly dawned on me that I could just move back to my home town.
But ex would be heartbroken. I dread to think of the effect on dc (though I know that kids can be fairly pragmatic and adaptable and they would definitely feel the pluses of the move too).

I dont know, it just feels like a really, really unfair thing to do...

Adding an extra hour to his day in both directions, so two extra hours of driving a day, so that the OP can do what she likes, is a huge ask. At the moment the father pops in daily, for dinner or to say goodnight.

He won't be able to do that anymore. If he leaves work at 5.30, drives an hour and a half home (I'm assuming he already commutes, since the OP said they live in a commuter town and the Dad has a city job), and his son is another hour in the other direction, there's no way he can see him daily. What do you want him to do, drive an hour and a half home, then another hour to the OP's house (by which time the son's probably in bed anyway), then an hour back to his every evening? Or do you think that it doesn't matter if his son only sees him on weekends?

Unbelievable.

Would it be OK for the DS to stay with the Dad, the mother move and do the commuting to see her DS?

I suggested that a while back and was accused of being on a 'gender equality mission' ROFL

What this thread shows is that for some women, although they make a lot of noise about equality,and wanting fathers to take equal responsibility, give them a taste of it and they throw it back.

Sorry, I missed that Violet.

Surely gender equality is paramount from both sides?

There still seems to be a distressingly high number of women who believe that the mother is the single really important parenting element within a family unit, and that fathers lie somewhere between sperm donors and interchangeable partners. Unbelievable!

The pendulum has swung much, much too far in this one respect, but nowhere near enough in many others(top 300 execs etc). I wonder if men observe the current position within the family courts system, and think to themselves that, if this is 'equality' in full flow, then it ain't going into the boardroom? Would anyone blame them?

You would think so wouldn't you? Clearly for
Some people, both parents are equal, but one parent is more equal than the other!

....and thus the wheel turns full circle.
After decades of striving to achieve 'equality', as soon as we achieve something approaching it in one area(family law) what do we do?
We collectively display all of the worst characteristics of sexism ourselves. It's like the bit at the end of that book, where the bullied schoolboy turns into a bully.
So, so sad.

Once again, it's entirely possible for children to change primary schools and survive unscathed.

Are people really so sadly provincial and backwards they feel once a 4-year-old starts school in a particular location he/she has^ to remain in said location or it will cause irreparable harm to him/her?

And yes, why can't the mother move 'back home' and the boy live FT with the father?

God no. I don't think many people think that. A school is replaceable. A father isn't.

The person coming across as really provincial here is the mother. I still cant understand why an adult feels they need to move back to being near aunties and uncles to be happy.

I think it would be very selfish indeed to move at this time. the relationship between the Op and her partner ended because tat was her wish, not his. he is currently paying back debts that she helped to run up, without financial contribution from her. He is also doing his utmost to continue to have a frequent, and good relationship with his son. TBH, from the OP, it really sounds as though the ex is around for his son as much, if not more, than many fathers who are still living with their families. It is extremely unreasonable to expect him to move home, something which is expensive at the best of times, let alone when you are trying to pay back debts: extra travel expenses could mean the visits have to be curtailed somewhat, quite apart from the extra time it would take to visit his son.

I am one of those people who believe that actually, when you have a child, you do have to put them first for a long time, even if that means you are not as happy as you can be. You chose to have the child, they did not choose to be conceived and then born.

It really doesn't sound as though you have ever made a firm commitment to settle in the area where you live. I think you need to make that commitment, for yourself and for your son. It would be unbelievably cruel to make such a drastic change to the relationship your DS has with his dad. And even if you did move, even if your DS and Ex managed to accept a weekend only relationship, how long would it be until you decided that you wanted your son every other weekend because you are not seeing enough of him what with school and college/work etc? What happens if your DS has a birthday or Christmas falls on the day your Ex is due to have him? At the moment it sounds as though you share these events together, but when your Ex only sees his son at the weekend how will it play out?

Sorry, but I really do think that you have to change your mindset, get your son settled into school, get yourself settled at college/work and yes, for a few more years, put the happiness of your son ahead of your own.

The OP has said her ex is looking at moving abroad for his career at some point. No-one's called him a bad father for planning that. And the OP will need to move out of her own home soon, apparently.

Lots of people want a support network once they have a family. Lots of people want to live near their family. OP says she has a very close (in emotional terms) family. It's important to her. There's no need to sneer just because that's not your personal experience. She only moved to this place because it was important for her ex's job.

Personally you couldn't drag me kicking and screaming to live in the same town as my mother, much as I love her. But I appreciate other people do not feel the same way.

(Am v. happy that my sister's moved within an hour of us, though, and I suspect I'd love it if we lived in the same town.)

As for long commutes, so what? It's about compromise. You have two parents who love their child. One is unhappy after moving to suit the other. She knows she's unhappy in this place, she's given it ten sodding years. They should compromise. Lots of people do long commutes. Not fun but possible as part of a compromise.

When relationships end, it's often just not possible for both exes to live in the same town forever. OP is having to move soon and her ex is planning to move abroad at some point. She and her ex will eventually find other partners and their lives will move in different directions.

Compromise is important for the adults and the child. Ideally, stay within a reasonable distance to promote contact - and the OP and her ex can do that. Until he chooses to leave the country...

'Looking at' 'at some point'.

= not the here and now and possibly not even the future.

yeah, but a real enough possibility for him to have discussed it with his ex.

Basically what the thrust of the answers have said is the OP has to put her life on hold until her ex moves countries. This is just not reasonable. It's inevitable when people split up that their lives move in different directions. The one who has been moving to suit the other's career doesn't do that any more. When my parents split up, after a while my mother moved back to the place we'd lived before she followed my Dad's new job. Then my Dad moved again for his career. Didn't kill any of us.

When he split up with his second wife, he moved away from her. Eventually my youngest sister went to live with him. She still has a good relationship with her mother. And I think the geographical distance was about two hours, actually. (My littlest sister is on here sometimes, maybe she'll turn up and tell me I'm wrong.)

How is the definition of 'putting your life on home' equivalent to not moving 'back home' just now?

The OP has admitted that she has spent 10 years avoiding putting down roots. Those were her words. Perhaps when she decided to have a child, she should also have decided to make a little more effort to get on and live somewhere two hours away from her home town.
It's not as though she's tried her hardest but things have gone wrong and she's utterly miserable. By her own admission, she has made no effort.

It's not just the long commute, edam. It's that the long commute renders it almost impossible for this bloke to see his son.

Look, again. Currently, let's say he commutes a half hour. If she moves two hours further out and he moves an hour out, then his day looks like this:

Leave home 7.30 am, arrive at work 9am (if he doesn't have a particularly demanding job)
Leave work 5.30pm, arrive home 7pm. At which point his son is another hour away. So what does he do, drive another hour to his son's house? Arrive there 8pm, just in time to say goodnight, then turn around and drive an hour home, arriving home at 9, 9.30pm? And if he has a job requiring more than a 9-5.30 hour span, then it's even later.

So actually it's not asking him to do an hour's commute. It's asking him to drive an extra 4 hours per day to see his son daily, which is how often he sees him now. And even if he does that, isn't a 4 year old in bed by 8pm usually?

So actually he'll only be able to see his son on weekends. Which means, if you're him, that he'll want to see him every weekend, to make up for the weeks, right?

If the OP refuses that, then this bloke has gone from daily to once a fortnight. If she agrees, then she never gets a weekend with her own son. Once the son is at school, if he then spends every weekend with his Dad, then when does he get the benefit of this wonderful extended family?

Exactly tortoise.

That spells out really clearly the reality of the situation. If the mother moves, or even if the father moves halfway as suggested, it will effectively end the day to day relationship which the ds has at the moment with his dad. He will be forced into becoming a 'weekend father' against his wishes and as you say, the next thing, the OP will be complaining about not getting any weekend time with her son.

In fact, try turning this narrative on it's head.....
Lets suggest that the mother leaves the child with the father(transfer of residence), and then moves to wherever she wishes.
Just watch how quickly that arrangement is suddenly perceived as being logistically unworkable and unfair!

I don't see why he has to see his son every day. They don't live together any more. It's nice that he can do this now, but it was never going to stay that way for ever.

I'll try to answer somr of the questions.

Ex wouldn't want custody, its something that was discussed when I was struggling after the split. I felt really guilty and thought ds would be better off with his dad. He assured me that I was the best person be his resident parent. Even if that happened I wouldd stay in the same town.

He works irregular hours and irregular days so having to plan a four hour round journey round that would be hard. Quite often he doesn't have 2 days off in a week and then - like atm - he'll have a big chunk of time off. It's the nature of the industry he works in.

Him working abroad - it's a role he is working towards, there are no guarantees but he's been putting in the ground work for several years. He would still be based here but it would massively change how often he sees ds.

I do worry about whether our current arrangements are sustainable long term. Nobobdy would be welcome in either of our lives if they didn't respect that we do and will co-parent. We're still a family, just not one where there is a romantic relationship between the parents. Things will change as ds gets older - he'll want to be out doing his own thing - but obviously thats very different to me or his father making a decision that alters things for ds.

I dont think I'm looking back with rose coloured glasses - its not a perfect place and never was.

Its odd but even though there are very strong opposing opinions on this thread, I feel heartened by all of it.

Or most of it, "The person coming across as really provincial here is the mother. I still cant understand why an adult feels they need to move back to being near aunties and uncles to be happy."
Violethill - its my sisters, brothers neices, nephews, my mum, and my friends, the places that mean something to me, a lifestyle that I miss and just a generaly lovely place to live.
Ds adores my family and they adore him, he is in his absolute element when we spend time there, he has nothing like that here. There's his fathere and me and thats it. No family at all. And that really does make me sad for him.
You might not understand it - and of course I dont need to be there to be happy - but we all have ideas of how we wnat to live our lives and extended family is huge for me, just is.

Edam, I cannot believe that you typed that out loud. Do you have children? Would you be alright if suddenly you went from seeing them daily to seeing them once a fortnight? Because it would devastate me. You make it sound as if having a relationship with one's own very young children is a bit like being able to afford ice cream every day - nice if you can, you know, but realistically...

Falling, I think a lot of this debate has happened "around" you rather than attacking you, and I'm glad you see it that way as well. I can absolutely understand the thing about extended family, and it sounds lovely. Do you and your son go down there for weekends?

Thank you for explaining a bit more of the background. I still think that as, by your own admission, you have made no effort to put down roots and make friends, it's unsurprising that you haven't. Its a two way process. I therefore feel the whole premise of your argument for leaving is a bit flawed. I also don't think you need to feel sorry for your son for not living in the same town as the extended family. His dad is more important than extended family.
Personally I couldn't do this to my child. I think although he would no doubt settle down in a new place, and wouldn't be unhappy forever, it would fundamentally change his relationship with his dad from a young age and that may make him resent you later

Oh I can definitely see its around me rather than at me.
We dont go as often as we should really. I tend to avoid it as I get upset about coming home again.
But i could get back into the habit of going regularly.

I'm with Edam. My ex insisted in taking DS to school every morning, saw him on weekends and even wanted to come along when DS was not with him. Perfect.

Months later, he re discovered a passion for... wait for it... salsa, and his interest in seeing DS went down. He had "a life to live" where his words when I told him DS was getting upset at having his contact nights cancelled regularly.

I also left everything to support my ex's career move. And have put with a lot to support contact between him and DS. Everytime he gets a mighty tantrum he reduces contact, as expected, he has reduced it so much he has no contact anymore.

I would be happy to move where I could have more support, call me provincial but my DS has been through so much upset over the last years that the last thing I want is to add to it by uprooting him (If he hadn't, I wouldn't have a problem with it). So I'm staying put, not in consideration of my ex feelings but those of my son.

So the thing is, mothers are expected to sacrifice everything on the benefit of the children, to support the relationship with the father but what about the father??? he obviously doesn't care to move abroad for his career.

So how does it work? It is ok for a father to reduce contact to satisfy his career needs, but not for a mother to reduce contact in order to get the support she needs to raise a child on her own?