Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Glad your evening went well and baby was safely asleep upstairs, that's the main thing.

Sorry, but not too sure about what to make about call from FIL - sounds a bit dodgy. Don't forget MIL will make this all about her, and when you said that FIL said she was still crying about the row - that is so typical: she will have to make herself the victim, so she will up the pressure - perhaps she got FIL to phone you to sound things out, whilst she ups the anti with the tears. Remember, she will never take responsibility or see herself in the wrong here. As for hubby - where is he staying? With his parents? Sorry, just doesn't quite add up - think MIL is playing games here. But glad you are ok and babes is - that's all that matters.

What your husband decides to do in the future is as much up to you as it is to him. I would use the time to decide on some changes that need to happen if you are to continue to live together.
That in my opinion should include him and his mother stopping the competitive parenting thing and counting how much time your daughter spends with various people, him backing you up re his mum, him allowing your mum to babysit so you can have time together to build up your relationship, him acting as though he wants to spend time with you and values you as a person, not just the mother of his child. Also everyone using your daughters name and presents to her coming to your house for her to open.

In your turn I think you have to get less worked up about your MIL being in your daughter life, involve all relatives in birthday celebrations, accept at some point your MIL will also be babysitting and finding nonfamily friends to be with so your husband doesn't feel you and your mum gang up on him.
To me any adult saying they could never move away from their parents when the parents are able bodied sounds overly dependant on them, and you did say that earlier.
Hope things go well.

So that's two nights that your DH has stayed away from home with no real explanation. And no communication from him either. And this is the same man that thinks that DD will be calling up to speak to her father rather than her mother when she's older.

Does this man live on another planet or wot?!

I think the whole situation with MIL is kind of irrelevent in some ways now. This is all about your DH. His behaviour is at best downright disrespectful and at worse very very worrying.

There is absolutely no excuse for him not coming home for 2 nights. And all because of what? You dared to ask to attend your DD's birthday party.

If it were me I'd be changing the locks on the doors. But that's just me

I'm sorry but he sounds completely useless! I cannot believe he text his parents and hasn't had the decency to get in touch with you Even if you don't feel completely in control of the situation (how can you be when you don't know what's happening with oh?!~). It's really important that when you are speaking to/face to face with your oh/in-laws you seem like you are in COMPLETE control. Don't show any signs of weakness with them. I think to get through today just try and keep thing's as normal and nice as possible for you and dd? Could you arrange to meet up with a friend or someone for a play/coffee (to try and take your mind off the situation for an hr or so?) Also I would keep trying to find out as much as you can about your right's etc. What happen's with the house? Does he have the right to stay there with you? Or are you going to need to start looking for somewhere ASAP? Can you stay with your parents if that's what you think is needed? Etc etc.

I hate to say it but your MIL will probably be able to get your oh back on-side quite easily...this is how he's spent his whole life and he knows nothing else! The projecting/competition with your daughter - I'm no expert in anyway, but I would think it would take a LOT of work/different therapies etc.

Hope you're feeling ok and are getting lots of support from your family.

2rebecca: You list all that as if it's something that he can just change overnight. I think it runs far deeper than that. It's not just his parenting skills that are being called in to question. It's the way he treats OP in every aspect of their life. Threatening to leave on numerous occassions and now not coming home for 2 nights with no communication to OP as to where he is. It's not right and it's not normal. I think it calls for far more than a chat about the way forward.

OP-how did it come about that separate parties were going to happen?

Well, it´s all about blaming you, isn´t it?

FIL blames you for MILs "tears", I´m wondering of husband also does as he hasn´t contacted you.

I can´t help thinking that he is showing where his loyalties lie tbh.

I´ve never really liked my MIL & when young, the children never saw her without me-I wouldn´t give her the pleasure of not having me there.

Ils looked after my PFB whilst I was having 2nd-it was a couple of hours & they wouldn´t have done had my parents been able to.

They have never babysat other than that-I have never wanted it.

Ever read anything about Borderline Personality Disorder....your MIL sounds like she may be a candidate.

Also your DH is well on his way to be exactly the same as his mother. She has raised him to believe that he must be the most important person in his child's life and it's all about him. You have to leave and FGS don't be home when he comes to collect DD, be the final straw and do something that means you can never return to your realtionship.....like not being there for him to pick up DD and take her to the party!!

I think the advice to go out if you can is good. Your DH is probably waiting for you to text/call him to beg him to.come home. As far as I can see, this is the same behaviour that your MIL uses when she doesn't get her own way. Ignore it, it's a plea for attention. Oh, and ignore the stomach ulcer. My lovely aunt has had stomach ulcers for years and is one of the kindest, most chilled out people you could ever hope to meet.

They, including FIL, are trying to make you feel guilty. You have NOTHING to feel guilty for: you have been repeatedly made to feel worthless by this family and they are just using a different tactic.

Good on you for getting in touch with CAB today. I think.it's important to keep the momentum. All the best, keep posting.

if i were you and i was many yrs ago with ex mil who behaved similarly and told me i was selfish for breast feeding! i would write her a letter and point out the unacceptable things she is doing and how it makes you feel and that it is leadibng towards the break up of your marriage. Then just edge into the final lines that as the law stands grandparents(unfairly in most cases) have very little by way of legal rights over the child.
I ama mil and my ds and her are "having a break" at the moment they are 20 and have a baby. Ds is with me but i see or ring dil every day and refuse to take sides. I count her as one of my best friends and we are very close. I am having a baby now(big shock) and she has been great source of support to me. t doesnt have to be like this. What a pity. But stand up for yourself. What do you have to lose?

Saffysmum - H stayed in a hotel last night apparently!

2rebecca - I agree those things need to change but how they will? I don't know. Do I honestly have to accept that MIL will HAVE to babysit at some point in the future? That is what MIL and DH have told me from the beginning but where's the law? I don't trust her, she won't ever respect my decisions, I can't fathom leaving my precious DD with her right now. - Do I honestly have to separate all of her other behaviour from her babysitting my DD? As for the dependant on my parents I'm not sure how you glean that? I did say I wouldn't move away from teh area - without DH. The question about moving away and cutting area ties was if I had to get away from DH and MIL. So I think anyone would find it hard to move away from their entire family, job (I work from home, but employers in town who I intend to eventually go back to work in the office too) and friends without going as a family unit. It would be me and DD... I agree going forward any celebration will have to be done all together, but that's if there is a future for DH and I.

I do know that MIL could have DH back on side if she wanted, and I don't want to live a life where I have to 'win' over my own husband! He's being a prize prat. I'm the person looking after my one year old and being excluded from her party, yet they are both managing to make it all about themselves. They really deserve each other!

diddl - it was never separate parties as such. I think the point was we were't having a party!We got up early in the am on her birthday to open presents and have a birthday breakfast if you like. We were going to have a picnic with friends with children which is planned for next Saturday. My Mum and sister popped over for cupcakes and presents with nephews on her birthday. DH was discussing plans to take DD to PILs the evening following her birthday- he let slip that neighbours would be there. I asked who else was going. Transpired it was a party. The night of her birthday I said I felt a little strange that I wouldn't be at her party, and I thought it a bit odd. DH said that as I had had a party with my family that day he could have one alone with his (it wasn't a party FGS!!) That was that really!

How did your DH feel about yoru MIL not babysitting diddl? I've been hounded about it since before DD was born. DH has even suggested I make up an excuse to need his mum to babysit so sshe could spend time alone with DD herself.

Well, tbh he kind of felt that I would always ask my mum first & was OK with that-as long as his mum wasn´t excluded completely.

Also, we lived away & when we visited at weekends we stayed at my parents & it would have been odd to then take baby somewhere else to be looked after.

Husband & I would often go out on the Friday-& ILs were welcome to visit my parents, but never did.

We would tend to spend Saturday with my parents & Sunday with ILs.
So in effect my parents got a couple of hours more.

My parents visited every week & spent the day with me.

I offered ILs the same-to spend the day with me & baby, but they never did-always wanted to visit on a Sat or Sun to have whole day with husband.

Which I understand, but obviously husband didn´t want to see them every weekend, so they always saw less of the children.

We are abroad now, & they have never visited-their only child & only grandchildren-so it shows how much they really mean, imo.

It was (IMO) ridiculous of your husband to say that because you had celebrated with your parents, you couldn´t then celebrate again with his.

I wonder if that came more from him than MIL either why, why should either of them begrudge you time with your daughter?

It seems to me that ideally MIL wants just her son & granddaughter.

Think my MIL would have liked this-but we were/are a package-and me out of the picture would have meant seeing even less of the grandchildren-as I think it would for many.

OP-you haven´t done anything wrong & they are trying to blame you.

Your husband is sulking about your daughter´s 1st birthday-which (thankfully) she doesn´t have a clue about!

He is making it about him-& it really isn´t!

MIL definitely does want DH and DD there with her without me - I knew I was playing into her hands by not going along with DH for visits but it had got to the point where I couldn't handle going over any more as weak as that sounds. MIL, DH (and to a lesser extent FIL) would either move to another room (semi-open plan house, but still far enough for me to feel excluded) or stay in the same room but in a corner, with MIL and DH's backs to me playing with DD. MIL actually tutted when I interrupted to just input something into the conversation. On one occasion her home phone rang and instead of leaving DD on the floor playing she scooped her up and took her with her. again it's one of those things that in isolation means nothing but it's the culmination. Also as I've said she then refused to come to our house so it's all on her terms/turf.

DH has making situations about him down to a fine art. In the past if I've had a down few days, maybe a bit weepy when she was younger, he would excuse his behaviour by saying he 'couldn't handle' it when I felt that way. The more I look at it the more I see he really can't handle much!

As someone said earlier, he really would rather that I suffered than he had to listen to MIL going on.

I will say that I find it very hard to send DD over with DH alone now - more because what it represents about our relationship. I don't choose to be away from DD. DH tries to tell me that I need a break - I think that's his way of excusing wanting me out of the way.

The locks are sorted because DH left his house keys behind - I have them next to me, so I felt quite safe last night knowing there weren't going to be any surprise entrances. He hasn't got another set and ILs don't have keys.

TBH I don't think I do want him back. I would I suppose - but only who I like to imagine he is not the real him IYKWIM. I've known for a long time that I've had to excuse to much of his behaviour to myself.

We have too many problems. All we really do have is DD together. We argue about schools (she's 1! but MIL wanted us to put her name down for the school 2 mins from her house) - DH agreed with MIL - and while it's a lovely school there are other lovely ones not next to her!He doesn't think that's a good enough reason, and it probably isn't. How can I explain why I feel like that? He also hates my family. Wants to limit the time DD and I spend with them, picks fault with them all and while of course they're not perfect they have hand on heart NEVER done anything to harm or offend DH. He can't take his eyes off them when they're holding DD. But he says he doesn't, says I imagine it and that I'm overly critical. He will not listen to any criticism yet I'm expected to bend over backwards to change for him and his family.

I didn't get pregnant and then decide that I was going to exclude MIL. I feel in my heart that I've gone above and beyond what should be expected. Yet he still wants more. It really shoudl have been a lightbulb moment when he left me at home to tell his mum I was pregnant!! I guess he wanted to guage her reaction but the separation started then...

Sorry to ramble..

Oh and yes I can see that he may have entirely manipulated this situation. Perhaps even with the knowledge of his Dad in the hope that he'd throw his mother and I together with the fact that he's not around, where is he, we must must must be best friends just so DH comes home!!! Ha.

I haven't contacted him further. If he wants attention, he's not getting it. He does try and work me into an emotional tailspin, I know he does. It's worse because he knows just what my ex was like. (Typical emotional abuser, chucked me out with my holiday suitcase on a roundabout in a city I didn't know!!) I've explained to DH how that made me feel. He always says I am just projecting what I felt about ex onto him. He also hates me talking about either his mother or him being controlling. He actually went off his head at me for saying it. I don't understand him, I really don't.

I will read up on borderline personality disorder - not that I think she'd try and get help.

People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.

in a 'normal' relationship you'd be assuming something dreadful had happened to your DH with him not getting in touch. I don't think you're to blame in anyway. DH and MIL both sound utterly bizarre, and both emotional abusers. I actually do feel it might be best to seek a way out entirely - this isn't a partnership at all. Best of luck!

No where, my love, is it cast in stone that your mother in law has to babysit for your precious one. I think you know that this is about far more than a silly party or two, it is about you being controlled by a man who has been controlled all his life by his mother. And his father too, has been controlled by her. Just remember, and it is really difficult I know, that YOU are not the problem here. They are. Mother and Son are the problem here. They will increase their bizarre behaviour and ridiculous demands - let them. Keep a diary as of today of all the stuff you can remember that your MIL and H have said over the years regarding the way you bring up your daughter, and about their demands and how they make you feel excluded. However petty, however trivial, write it all down. It will help you on an emotional basis, and perhaps on a practical basis. You know in your heart that you don't want him back - so please follow your heart and your inner voice. Be firm, be dignified, and tell him quietly and repeatedly that you need time and space to think (you do). He, MIL and possibly FIL will go ballistic, and if this all goes to plan, judging your MIL on her past behaviour she will have an opportune major illness. I know I sound cynical but I've seen this pattern repeatedly. Let them huff and puff and do their worse. At the end of the day, there is nothing they can do. Your priority is you and your baby. So let them stew in their own juice.

Somebody earlier in the thread suggested narcissism, which tbh sounds a closer fit for the MIL at least. Her relationships are too bloody stable if anything, and her emotional outbursts sound rather well timed/organised. She is manipulative rather than chaotic. That's my theory in the mix, based of course on a necessarily sketchy case history and no psychological training whatsoever!

Agree totally on the narcissism Annie - and I have had a bit of psychological training for what it's worth! MIL is a copybook example, from what we've heard so far. The sad thing is that OP will never win, she will never be able to do what she asked for help to do in the title of this thread. All she can do is damage limitation for herself and little one. It is very sad.

OK I'm writing myself a little journal of their behaviour - It's making me feel better already because I have in black and white in front of me what happened. Not how it made me feel or what I 'thought' happened, just the facts and I know that no one would look at this page and think it was OK.

I know that if narcissist of BPD that MIL has something wrong with her - and that I really dont' want her around my DD too much. However - is her behaviour enough of a reason not to let her babysit DD? She's quite forceful with DD - i.e,. you WILL sit with me even if you don't want to - but not more than that really. No unreasonable behaviour with her as such. So I'm goign to end up having to let her go there anyway aren't I?