Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Hi Nappies - how are you doing today? x

Hi everyone - thanks for your thoughts/wishes
I've just been so busy today haven't had time to get back on MN - I had a small rush to meet a work deadline (I didn't get as much done as I'd have liked last week!)

Last night I just needed some time away from the computer, phone and everything else. I let DD in my bed for her to fall asleep (More for my benefit than hers so I could get a snuggle!) and went to bed at 9pm!

DH did send a little, I'm sorry, love you and and missing you text yesterday, but more importantly, he called today with the details of the nearest relate - said he has got our names down for a cancellation appointment as soon as one comes up. Otherwise he's booked half a days holiday off of work for the 23rd August, and we've got a definite first appointment then if nothing in the mean time. I'm pleased with this. He didn't mention his parent again, or about seeing them this week. He will be coming over on Wednesday evening to see DD and I. We may have dinner together. I'll show him my written notes on Saturday. I'll make sure he knows that me wanting counselling sessions isn't about his mother, but about how our relationship has turned out.. Really glad that he did this booking himself with no prompting though, makes me quite hopeful that we can overcome this.
As for the babysitting being someone neutral, I'd struggle at short notice, and I must admit, it's not just DH's mum I don't leave DD with, it's anyone who isn't mine and even then that's rarely! I think I'd worry the whole session about DD if we used a new babysitter - do you think that's an important factor though? Should I try and forget about the anxiety and find a neutral one before the booked relate appt?

MCDL - I'm not sure I've actually done anything to MIL! I've tried to rack my brain, but I think it was as simple as marrying her son. We weren't exactly close before I had DD but they have certainly escalated since she was born. MIL mentions DH's ex a lot, but whether they were actually close or she just uses it as a weapon I don't know so I'm not sure if it's just because I'm the woman in her son's life.

Interesting question about the dynamic about MIL and DIL and what makes the relationship like that. I know that I'm not the common denominator as I got on well with previous boyfriends mothers (I know there weren'tGC involved, but still our relationships were different to the one I had with MIL before DD)

I think it depends on the control that a mother has over her son's life really. My sister has 3 boys. She is v v controlling by nature and I think she and her future DILs will struggle. I do know if I end up with son this situation is going to make me v aware of being a good MIL!

Oh and Diddl - I don't think you have to settle for being second best Grandma! I honestly think that if you treat a DIL as an equal rather than another child you can tell what to do (as MIL does) that there's every probability of a great relationship with her and your grandchildren. Although I'm sure there are women who are DILs from hell who try to make life as hard as possible for their MILs, they're probably the future MILs from hell anyway. (I know this is actually the case with MIL - she was a horrendous DIL - her and her MIL came to constant blows - it's probably less about the MIL/DIL relationship and more about the person!

Minda - thank you for posting, sounds like you had a bad time of it - and your ex OH does sound remarkably like DH - the undermining of me to other people. Did you manage to convince him to ever have help for it beforeyou split?

Thanks SAF - I'll be back because I'm sure things aren't going to be as easy as all this in the days to come.

I know DH is doing the right things, but he will push to come home soon, or ask about his parents again, and I will need advice from allof you! My copy of toxic inlaws was supposed to arrive on Friday - still not here today though thought it would make a light night time read!

Nappies, all very good signs, your H seems to want to make this work, I told you, this might just work out!!

All the very best to you both, I'm sure you'll get there if you both want it enough, and it really sounds like you do!

Nappies

Just read the entire thing.

I've had similar.In my situation he was using mil as his rock against me and she was more than willing to oblige. Possibly not in your situation.

But personally I'd be very very wary of someone who counts visits and time spent with their child not only from ils but their own wife - the mother of their child. That's terrible. Organising a party for your dd over your head and not wanting you there. DH leaving home and going awol while all the time expecting his dm to have the last word over your dd.

Relate may be good but take things slowly as your dh has had years of conditioning and it will be easier to slip into old habits than to work hard on these issues.

I battled for two years and I'm left exhausted and old frankly. They backed off and dh has calmed down but it's not ideal as they now feel victimised. I was just told a few days ago by sil that my ds will be left with her s for an entire summer when he's 7. So they are still pushing. Although they'd love the day my ds goes to them without me I strongly feel that they do not deserve this and I will tag along until such time I think that ds will be OK there (they are abroad) without me.

Use this time to redress all the imbalances you feel in your relationship and hold your dh accountable for his actions and what he says.

I wish your family the best of luck. You've been amazing.

Hi Nappies, been visiting my dad in rural Leicestershire for last couple of days. Just wanted to pop my head round the door & give you a thumbs up before my signal/battery dies again. Well done, and keep it up. Honestly, by the time you're done you'll be able to write a guide on assertiveness. I'm so impressed by the way you're handling this. Night night.

Nappies, that´s not sounding too bad tbh.

Is your husband also going to get counselling re. his mum?

Or at the very least talk to someone who can point out the "oddness" of the relationship?

I think any visit re his parents has to be on your terms.

The "advantage" of going to them is that you can leave when you want.

The advantage of meeting somewhere neutral is that it perhaps take away some of r´their "power"-ie they are not at theirs & don´t have that advantage.

I think it´s fine to use your mum as a babysitter tbh.

Afterall, what´s the point in a new babysitter?-leave your daughter with someone she id´s happy with & who you trust.

Well it's not looking good now at all.
H came over last night - we had planned for him to come over tonight, but he took it upon himself to change the day. Started off cordially enough until he mentioned his parents coming around on Thursday night to 'discuss things'. I said that I would prefer it if we kept this about our marriage for at least a couple of weeks,as I think that we'd be taking a step backwards by seeing them... Some snippets of the conversation are as follows:

• I can't withold their Grandaughter in that time, the state of our marriage apparently shouldn't influencehow much time DD spends with MIL.

• I asked what exactly we were meant to be discussing. He said the fact they don't call DD by her name. I said that is just small incident of MILs emotional blackmail. To which DH said 'See you can't use phrases like that, it will all kick off and you'll start world war 3

• I told DH that it probably wasn't normal for a grown man and an entire family to be scared of MIL. Why does everyone have to tip toe around her etc. ThatI thought perhaps an objective person, i.e. counsellor, would be able to discuss this with him better than me. He smirked and said he wasn't the one with the problems, itwould be a waste of money for him to go etc.

• He then changed tack and asked if I didn't see how difficult it was for him to hear these things said about his own mother. I said no I haven't been in his shoes, but I have seen the devestating effect it has had on our relationship.

I tried in vain to discuss this further. Saying that he doesn't have to choose between us (he said that basically I want him to tell his mother to f* off. I've never said any such thing!) but that he has to put the boundaries up for MIL etc. He then started stonewalling me, refused to acknowledge I was talking. I started crying and he took DD up for a bath.

He left his phone downstairs. I know I shouldn't look but I did. FIL had text him saying I'd called him in tears on Wednesday (no I hadn't, he called me!!! and I was totally composed). MIL had text him the same day saying that I had a conversation with FIL and everything was sorted now, so DH could come home to the party?! Finally texts between him and his Mum asking him to bring DD over to theirs on Thursday night, no mention of me - also asking DH to bring nappies and pyjamas so she can bath her and get her ready for bed?!! WTF! They can't honestly have thought she would stay there the night with them, I think she just wanted to play Mum? DH sent a text saying that perhaps I would come to my senses in a few days....my senses?! I'm losing them, spending time with him!

They make me paranoid. I know they talk about me behind my back. I know they make things up. I think coming to my 'senses' would mean leaving DH.

I confronted him when he came down from bathing DD. Obviously he did the usual - why was I even looking at his phone etc. Said he'd rather arrange things with his Mum, and then cancel them with the excuse of his work than tell her he needs to stay away 'because I say so'. Cue some more shouting from , then he apparently can't take this shit anymore, and he kissed DD and left.

Sorry text arrives this morning.

I'm not sure I care anymore.

Am I overreacting? Have I expected too much from him?

Just to clarify, the text from DH saying maybe Nappies will come to her senses soon was to his mother.

You are not overreacting but I think you are expecting too much from him. He has been conditioned for decades to put his Mum's needs and desires above everyone elses even his own. He is repeating that pattern because that is what he knows.

You were previously the line of least resistance i.e. if his Mum was kicking off he would push you to conform to what his Mum wanted because it was easier than confronting his Mum's unreasonable behaviour (which he has been trained not to do). His difficulty is that you are no longer being compliant so he can't force you to do what his Mum wants. He is probably going to keep trying the old pattern for some time as he needs to learn a new way of thinking. Painful though it is I would use each of this challenges as an opportunity to firmly reinforce the message to your DH that things have changed and they won't go back to how they were before.
Its not that you "will come to your senses" in a few days; his problem is that "you have come to your senses" and decided that you will not be sacrificed for his Mum's ego any longer.
Keep going you are doing the right thing.

Perhaps expecting too much - but nearly every everything is the same. I'm not sure whether he didn't want to go to counselling at all even as a couple or whether the comment was aimed at the individual counselling for him.

I think the trouble is, I'm shattered. He works away loads - and now he's staying away because I want him to. But I do everything myself (as I know lots of women do) and work from home. But its' the emotional tiredness. I haven't got the energy to chivvy him along, worry about what crap he's telling his Mum etc.

Maybe I should lower my expectations. But I don't know what the least to expect would be. Perhaps just the relate session. He did want to bring his parents over just to see DD, without the conversation. I should probably just say yes.

No - please don't lower your expectations. It's too soon to be having these conversations. You need lots of time. He needs to know you're serious. You cannot, I repeat, change his mother. Ever. And you possibly can't stop FIL and your Hubby being controlled by her. You can only change how you respond to it. You do not have to compromise over this awful woman. Stick to your guns, refuse to see them unless you can really handle it, and insist on time and space. Your hubby doesn't get it yet. May be he never will. Perhaps you would be better off alone - but you all need to let the dust settle and to let him realise that he has to show absolute understanding over the situation. At the moment, he's telling you what he wants to hear in the hope that you "come to your senses". The poor guy hasn't got a clue. Leave them all to it. Look after yourself and your daughter. And don't spend emotional energy on trying to get them to change. It's like trying to hold the tide back - let them get on with it.

Saffysmum - you're right it's all that emotional energy I'm effectively wasting on nothing because no one listens. Not one of them sees that their relationships are anything other than normal!

I suppose it went back to the old feelings of being undermined by telling MIL I'll come to my senses... It's like I'm the nutter on the outside again who just happens to be the primary carer of their DD, DGD etc. Ah well. I'm going to insist on space. I suppose they can come around to see DD, but I will not be entering into anything other than polite greetings. I'll probably get some work done. Going to treat H and I havinga proper seperation now. He may or may not come to his senses but I'm not wasting my time trying to make him!

Saffysmum great post.

What I meant was that you shouldn't get your hopes up too much that he will change quickly or at all. You have to do what is right for you and your DD and I think that involves staying away from his parents and keeping your DD away from them too. They are minimising you needs and wishes and so you have every right to ignore their wishes and do what is best for you and your DD.

Do not feel obliged to do anything for the benefit of your MIL she absolutely doesn't deserve it.

I've been watching this thread from Sunday morning, when I read through it all. I was quite shocked when your H did a u-turn and appeared to morph into something else. But i am not surprised that this didn't last long. I don't believe that someone can fundamentally change their being and personality without major help. I was in a very bad relationship for nearly 9 years. He was violent and controlling and had a mental illness for a time. I got pregnant with DD after 7 years and even though we were reaching breaking up point, I decided to try for the sake of DD. Unfortunately he became worse because of DD. (This is were your story meets mine- I know your H isn't violent, but you are mistaken if you think he isn't abusive). He believed that his word was law when it came to DD. If he didn't think she should go somewhere he would stop it. If he thought some toy wasn't appropriate he would bin it. (Your H thinks he can just take DD to his mum, even if you don't think it's the right thing to do). When I left i felt so guilty about taking his DD away from him that I let him take DD out whenever he wanted. (Much like your doing now, with letting him into the house and perhaps you are about to let himm take DD to MIL on Thursday becasue you think he is entitled because he is a parent and equvialent to you). Unfortunately, this did not work out well for me. His questioning of my mothering choices increased. He wanted to know where i'd been, what DD had done, questioning every bump and bruise and accussing me of being a bad mum. He would phone all the time, screaming at me. I couldn't think straight and I had a stutter and zero self esteem. The change came when I was talking it out for the 100th time with my mum. I said something along the lines of 'I wish I could just talk to him and make him see my point of view' and my mum said 'you can't', I got as far as 'but' before she just repeated 'you can't'. I said 'what if'- mum 'you can't'. And that's when it dawned on me that no matter what I say or do, he's never ever going to change or understand. I stopped letting him see DD when he dictated. I said he could have her overnight at the weekends. I stopped answering his calls and refused to speak when he asked me something face to face. I started to regain my sanity. I like you would questioning myself because they have you believing it's you that's being unreasonable and abnormal and everything they say is quite rational and sane.

You may see this as not right because it is just as much his child as yours, but i believe this only applies to reasonable people. From the texts you have read on H's phone it is obvious that they believe they have the right to dictate still. I'm not saying you and only you has rights over your DD, but you are her mother and her primary carer and therefore imo override anyone else. I think they have well overstepped the mark and the only way to regain control is to reduce their involvement to such an extent that they realise you mean business. At the moment imo they do not believe anything as changed and they can continue manipulating you.
If I was you, H would not be allowed to just turn up. I wouldn't let him in. This will stop him doing so. He would get to see DD in a surpervised place-like your mum's and the MIL needs her nose knocked out of joint in order to cut her down to size because she will learn no other way. I would allow a visit once a month, again surpervised. You can always increase if things improve, but you need them to realise that they don't control you.

chazsbrilliantattitude - I appreciated what you meant about the expectations etc - If I was sharp it's about the situation, wasn't wrt your post at all. I suppose as much as I feel strong at the moment, it's hard to realise the man you have built a life with may not be able to change and make things right.

Sassy - thank you for taking the time to post that. I think that you're right, and it's about boundaries. If DH won't listen to mine (ie don't pop over, I need space, no taking DD to MILs alone etc) then how will he make MIL listen to them? When I said that it would have to start off supervised etc until I built up trust etc, but he says I'm just paying lipservice to that.

PS Sassy - I'm pleased you are out of that situation now

It's sad he has reverted to being mummy's little pillock. Things looked hopeful for a (brief) while.
He hasn't got the message that grandparenting isn't a competitive sport and that the health of your marriage is far more important than his mother playing dolls with your daughter, and that you do have the "right" to stop her seeing your daughter as you are her parents and your wishes override hers.
He is definitely the problem here in not telling his parents to back off and find some other hobbies apart from your daughter whilst you sort your marriage out. When your daughter is 12 she's not going to remember whether or not she saw her grandparents in the first 2-3 years of life anyway.
The emotional stability of her parents will be far more important to her. He has to start thinking long term and start seeing you both as a couple rather than seeing it as him and his parents v you.
He does sound very childish and sadly sounds like a manipulative liar as well. Doing things for an easy life isn't an excuse for the way he is treating you. It might be an excuse if he was a 17 year old boyfriend, but not for a husband in his 30s.

LastofTheNappies - I have watched and lurked on this thread from the very beginning and have not been able to post, for which I apologise.

I was married to someone like your H, with a MIL like yours, and a FIL like yours (and a fucking nasty BIL, wicked witch of SIL and horrible SIL and BIL into the bargain).

I tried for 20 years to change things. I tried to be what they wanted me to be. I tried to set boundaries. I tried to be reasonable. I gave in every time to emotional blackmail.

I tried to get my then H to see what was going on was wrong and it could not continue.

I tried to make him put me and his 4 DC's first and stand up to his family.

I failed.

He is now - for lots of reasons - the XH and I can honestly say I wish I had done it years ago.

Thinking of you.

I'm with bottyburp I put it in my 1st post but took it out incase it was too forceful/depressing etc. But basically, I don't think he will change and it is a question of how long you will waste/suffer/lose of your life before you realise this. (sorry)

My best friend is going through this now. It is coming up to 2 years since she decided to give DH another chance and if anything it is worse now.