Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

"Towards the end of seeing him yesterday he did sort of mention perhaps waiting, seeing how things went with him and his parents "

Wrong way round imo-he should be wanting to sort out his relationship with you first.

I can´t help thinking that there is no need to "sort things out" with his parents.

He just shows them by his actions/reactions that things are different.

Why does MIL have such a problem with u ...

I think OPs MIL would have a problem with anyone tbh.

Before we married, my MIL phoned my Mum to say how concerned she was that things would go wrong & I would "hurt" her son who "doesn´t have a bad bone in him".

How fücked up is that?

He was mortified!

OP's mil has a problem, not a problem 'with' anyone as such.

Like I said, I'd hate to live in her head.

Seems surpisingly common for Mils to be like this, too.

Diddl at least your dh was mortified, that sounds a bit like my cousin's dh who told his mum to take a jump in the end. The big problem comes when the bloke involved is too caught up in his mother's weird world to see clearly enough to get out.

Is is always women who are like this BTW?

What I meant was I think she would have treated any DIL the same as she treats OP.

"Is is always women who are like this BTW?"

I doubt it, but I do wonder if MILs like this have no daughters?

My FIL is controlling though-he has made MIL dependent on him.

He has a way of manipulating more so that you end up doing what he wants without realising it iyswim.

I know, Diddl, I was agreeing with you. Very sad.

I don't know, women seem to be more poisonous in their manipulation than men...

It seems to be mothers & their sons, doesn´t it?

I have one of each & somehow I feel more protective to my son.

And I have thought about MIL/DIL relationship & how if he has children I will most likely be "2nd best granny"

HAs anyone mentioned the "Toxic Parents" book by Susan Forward yet? A lot of people on here have found it helpful - maybe DH could do with reading it.
There is also another one by the same author about Toxic InLaws and how to deal with them.

here

Yes, Diddl, I have two dds and a ds, and he's needed me far more than the girls have, he's much more emotionally vulnerable. I see my job as getting all three dc not to need me, but I can see how that feeling of being needed so much becomes addictive.

As for Mil/Dil relationships, who knows? My mil disappeared out of dh's life when he was in his teens so I have no experience of it. But my dad's mum was pretty weird to my mum.

It's an intrinsic part of being a mum, isn't it, loss and letting go? Tis the natural order of things. That's why I know I've needed to ensure I'm not dependent on them just as much as they aren't dependent on me.

I've heard of more run ins between DILs/MILs that any other in-law relationship. When I was younger and dumped a nasty controlling BF, his mum rang me up and had a massive go at me for being such a bitch and breaking his heart! (He was 26 at the time and I was 17). My gran has the best MIL story of the family though, she got married just after WW2 and there was no fabric for a proper wedding dress. So she went out an chose a nice pattern and pretty floral fabric, but made the mistake of showing her MIL2B, who secretly went out boght the same things and wore the same, handmade dress to the wedding. She was a prize looney. Actually Nappies, what did your MIL wear to your wedding? ;)

I think that you're doing amazingly! Really really well. And I"m sure you're right in getting that bit of clearence from the situation will help you massively in getting your head straight. I think the biggest thing your DH needs to realise that you're not going to relate to talk about MIL (at least not initially), you're going to talk about your relationship and the problems that HE is causing in your relationhip with his treatment of you and DD. So just waiting to see if it all gets forgotten about and MIL behaves better won't work and it's not fundamentally about the mad old bat, it's about him.

"I would love to ask MIL one day on what planet she thinks emotional blackmail is an acceptable tool to get her own way!"

I think unfortunatly, on planet lainey looney, emotional blackmail has always got her her own way so she probably does see it as being totally acceptable for her to do. I on't think your MIL will ever (sincerely) apologise to you, because she will never ever believe that she has done anything wrong. Ever. Hopefully you and DH will get to a place where you can feel sorry for her, but not have to engage with the crazy.

Somehow my daughter is "automatically" more independent-she does more for herself.

I know the line has to be drawn though.
There´s a difference between doing stuff for your son when he doesn´t need & it´s to make you feel needed.

That´s definitely what MIL did.

It's hard, isn't it, Diddl? I think that for many women - especially our mum's generation - their marriages became increasingly distant after having kids and because the sons are so loving and needy in a way that the husband isn't, the mum transfers the love to the son in a very inappropriate way. It's easy to see why if you feel lonely and unloved.

Yes, both my dds are far more independent, not so much in terms of doing things but in the sense that they can be left with someone else quite easily, but not ds. I had no trouble with the dds starting school but am not sure how ds will be when he starts in September.

Mind you, when I told my friend that I still had to wipe ds' bottom but that I'd hope he'd stop by the time he left school she said that as far as she was concerned that never stops and that is what wives are for - mums just sign over responsibility on the wedding day!

My son is naturally very shy & quiet-and doesn´t find school easy-it´s hard not to do things because you feel "sorry" for him.

Also, he´s naturally lazy-are most boys?

His threshold for leaving things undone is mostly higher than my threshold for stepping in & doing them

Maybe it´s easier to "mother" boys-my daughter (younger) is pushing to do more for herself-son, would still happily let me pack his school bag-he´s a teenager

Well, maybe my son is just lazy

I certainly don´t intend for him to leave home & not be able to look after himself.

Unfortunately I have sometimes done something rather than waiting for him to get around to it.

It´s hard to explain.

My daughter & I seem to have an automatic bond.
Son seems to be automatically growing away-it´s tempting I think to do things to be needed.

Sadly for me, of all the boyfriends I´ve had, I married the one whose parents I get on with the least!

swallowedAfly - you are so bang on point there, and that is the best way I've ever heard it described.

Well done for that post :).

Oh, and Nappies, so glad to hear you're doing okay, still want to give you and your DD big hugs, though mainly for being so strong now!

It is something that I have to watch for - one of my dds loves to run around after ds and fetch and carry for him - but he's not lazy, the 'naturally' lazy one is my dd1 - ds loves to be helpful and he does things like getting his own snacks/drinks etc. He's pretty good at housework too, but then dh sets a good example there and he definitely sees vacuuming as man's work. It's one good thing about dh's mum buggering off - dh has learned to be self-reliant and so expects his son to be the same.

Assuming that the mess comment was aimed at me - the friend in question was ds' pre-school teacher and he was three at the time. We had big problems potty training him because his poo made him vomit and it has taken a while for him to be comfortable with it. Bit grim really.

But did think what she said was very funny! (she only has daughters and I think the comment was aimed at her dh...)

Yep, jealousy of the dil is a very big issue, esp. if the mil has come to look on her son as the man who fulfils all her emotional needs.

Diddl, it's not easy, is it? I'm letting dd1 take the consequences of her 'laziness' more i.e. not stepping in to remind her about homework, not tidying up after her etc. But when I have three aged 4- 8 to get out of the door in a hurry it's hard not just to do everything. I have two dds and I can see how different they are, one I'm very similar to and one I'm not. So maybe ds would have been insecure if he'd have been a girl? Who knows? Anyway, he'll be in school full time soon so he'll have to get used to it.

These men who need others to approve of their partners, are deeply insecure. Perhaps they can't trust their own judgement, because they've been incredibly controlled and influenced by overbearing mothers, that they realised even subconsciously at an early age that their own opinion was either worthless or was going to be overruled, probably derided. Their mothers made up their minds for them, told them what to think, to value. Also, and perhaps more crucially, they often had mothers that they constantly tried to impress - but never quite managed to. The love they received was never unconditional - none of the "well you tried your best and that's great" when an exam was failed, or just scraped through: more a "but Johnny next door sailed through his Chemistry - how could you let me down like this". So, in a nutshell these men think opinion is everything. Such a high price was put on "what will people think" by Mother, that what other people think of you is all that matters. If people think you are wonderful - then you are. Incapable of making their own minds up, because trust in their own judgement was quashed at an early age, these men drive their partners nuts with their ridiculously high demands, which will never be met. The pattern, set in their childhood, is simply repeating itself.

Yes indeed.

Although you wonder at them marrying someone who their mother doesn´t approve of!

Hi Nappies - I've been thinking about you and your DH.

If I were you, I'd whip him off to Relate as soon as possible and not wait for him to reinstigate... It must be an astonishingly difficult thing for him to do, to acknowledge that his mother, whose word has been law his whole life, has been a malign influence. The way the human brain works is it retreats to its comfort zone as fast as possible, even to the extent of people kidding themselves about things when they really don't stack up. This admission from him is like a little seed which needs nurturing.

I agree he needs individual counselling, but perhaps that thought would come better from the counsellor, or perhaps couples counselling will make him realise the extent of the problem. It would be good if he could limit his contact with his family until your first appointment with the counsellor if he can - your MIL will realise there's danger her edifice will crumble and she'll be desperately trying to re-establish the status quo.

When it comes to babysitting for your DD while you go to counselling, is there a neutral third party, rather than your own parents, who can look after her? It might even be worth joining sitters in order to have a neutral party if there isn't one already.

Haven't read whole thread as getting ready to leave for hols in an hour but just wanted to wish you the best of luck as I have similar probs with my MIL.
I always go to family events, even though she drives me mad as I won't give her the satisfaction of getting to play 'mummy' with my dd. I did give her birthday a miss recently as a few weeks prior she had screamed abuse at my parents. She phoned me at home to have it out with me (I'd made an excuse initially) and I told her why I wasn't there and haven't spoken to her since.
I feel the same way as you on a regular basis (dh not good at standing up for me either, although he has told her where to get off on a couple of occasions over the last 14 years!) - I just won't give the bloody woman the satisfaction of breaking my family up.