Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Stay strong Nappies You're doing brilliantly! Look how far you've come since the beginning of this thread.

Can't say thank you enough once again to all of you, you're such a great help and source of information and strength!

Sorry if I miss some of your questions - I'm v tired tonight, it's all just hit me, and really that the conversation between DH and I tonight was really just the beginning of the work that needs to go into saving out relationship. It didn't even begin to cover it! It's exhausting just thinking about it!

I'm going to answer what I can, then I'm going to print the thread off and take it to bed so I can highlight some of the key phrases and it will add to the journal I have started as it holds a lot of key info. (I find the questions everyone asks really helpful by the way because it helps direct my thinking where I need to, and the key issues so thank you)

DH sort of hung around and then was finding things to do. I did have to ask him to leave and it was quite emotional really. We had a hug and both had a tear in our eye, but at least he didn't fight me. I told him at the door that DD and I both love him and that we'll all do what we can to save our relationship, but that I couldn't do everything or even most of it for him, that he should take the time we're apart to think things over and mjake a plan of action for himself. He can't take the time off of work because although he has a work office/base (that he always comes back to after a contract and where the hotel was) he actually works all over the UK and Ireland and often for stretches at a time. I think on Monday I will find the Relate counsellor nearest and then have to try at late notice appointments when he might have a window.

Lucky - I can actually totally imagine that happening with MIL and DD.She already tuts when DD fusses when on her lap, and I have witnessed her hold my obviously uncomfortable and crying baby and insist on swinging her to sleep (in a position I told MIL time and again DD hated) - my poor child I have no idea why I didn't grab her off of her! That makes me feel like and awful mother.

I will stay away from PIL on your advice then. And on reflection I agree. When DH was here it was hard to think things through with much clarity I suppose. But we can't be a united front for months yet - not proof of it anyway.

I don't knwo how this sounds - I know DH will roll his eyes - but I was going to do a sort of 'minutes' of our conversation. Sounds so strange and cold I suppose but I want to write down what we did agree to, and what timeframes these are supposed to happen over. At least then I have proofof what was said and somethign to measure our progress against?

I absolutely don't want him being with DD as his Mother is with him.Thisis v important and I will cite this to him, even though he will probably be hurt at the thought/suggestion. I think he could gain a lot from counselling, and I hope after one couples session perhaps, he might see that one on one would benefit him.

diddl- H said today that getting on with my family makes him feel like he is being disloyal to his. I think he has tried to find reasons not to like them. Now I recall things he has said about my family I'm almost certain they have come from MIL.

I did try to assure DH that I wasn't trying to manipulate or game play. I think maybe because I have felt the need to over explain myself on occasions about my decisions re DD and MIL, that my best bet from now on is to say no and leave it at that. Leave the ear bashing to MIL. The more I leave her to it and take the moral high ground, the more DH is going to realise what she is like rather than spend time defending her to me.

I think his mother sowed(sp?) the seed on Wednesday night with their argument and DD's party. It needs to stay there and grow until he is sure that his loyalty is with DD and I and not his Mum.I hope he can do it. I love him and I would like to support him in this. HOwever this week has shown me that even if he isn't, I will be fine, I have support, in RL and on MN. I'm also stronger than I thought. Thank you to all of you. Will be back tomorrow.x

Also just to add I don't want to replace his mother in his life in that I dont' want to control his thoughts/feelings etc - I want him to be a strong enough person to hold his own. I want to be a partnership not his keeper and I told him as much.

Nappies, that all sounds great- your love for your dh and for your dd shine through your posts.

See, you are stronger than you ever imagined possible!

I'm not at all surprised that your dh suggested seeing your pil, I expect he's had a lifetime full of dramatic confrontations, tears and tantrums. I think you have made a very wise decision in not playing up to her need for that by avoiding her.

It's obvious that you don't want to control him or supplant his mum, but you ar eright, he has to be the one to want to change, all you can do is be there for him.

I think making notes is a good idea, it doesn't sound cod at all. If he rolls hsi eyes just say you find it easier to focus if you see something written down, many people do.

I've found this site incredibly helpful for getting my head clear whenever I've been upset by something.

Sleep well. xxx

Never ever feel like you've been a bad mother. You have and still are standing up for your DD, and you sound like a great mum.

Am glad you're feeling ok, and you sound really strong which is great. Minutes of the conversation sounds absolutely fine, and gives you ammunition to fall back on if it doesn't work. Your H can roll his eyes all he likes, just tell him that it helps you keep it clear in your head. Make him agree to the document as well and the write down that he has agreed to them, it sounds really nitpicky and anal, but it saves there being any dispute about what was said later. He needs to accept that he has behaved very unfairly to you and this helps YOU, so he should be falling all over himself to do it for you.

You're handling this brilliantly.

Well done. What a few days you've had; I bet you're shaking. You've got one of the hardest bits out of the way and now you need to stick to your guns.

I like your idea of using minutes for your meetings with DH. Points like "matters arising", "any other business" and "date and time of next meeting" would be genuinely useful. If he laughs at it, agree that it is a funny way of conducting a marriage but that this is what has come to for you, and that you are keeping things businesslike at present. If he pushes it, you might need to remind him that there are some significant trust issues here and that it's not much to ask to take your concerns seriously.

Well done for keeping your PILs at arms length. While your FIL is probably nice enough in himself, I agree with whoever said that he can't be seen as a single agent but must be viewed as an extension of MIL. Plus, he can't really be relied upon as an ally as he has had 30-odd years of going along with MIL and will not change sides. But he could be, unintentionally or not, used to soften you up. God, that sounds paranoid, and badly punctuated, but ykwim.

I would definitely agree that your DD has more appeal as an idea than a reality to your MIL, and I'm.concerned about MIL's reaction to her struggling, and her insistence on rocking her to sleep in the way she wanted to, even if it was uncomfortable for DD. Not boding well for the terrible 2s.

I hope you don't mind, but I told my DH about your situation and he ran it through his head as if it were happening to us and was horrified. He also said that if his mum was being this vile to me, he'd be cutting off contact with her and feeling embarrassed about her behaviour, and he'd be making an extra effort with my friends and family, rather than trying to cut ties.

I was at one set of my PIL's today. I wish we could have swapped for one day, just to give you a break, and so I could give your MIL a piece of my mind.

Good luck tomorrow, fingers crossed and sending you a virtual glass of red over the ether.

Nappies, there have been times when I've felt that I should have said or done soemthing when my dc haven't been happy aroudn other people. No way are you a bad mum. I've found that I've got more assertive the older they've got, but when they were little I was so timid.

You've got to the brave stage a long time before me.

PS, yeah let her disown DD. Call her bluff. Her loss & PPD no, he needs to recognise his own need for counselling. I expect in the past he has used those lines on his mum: "I know she's awful, I've been taken for a ride, I'm sorry" etc. That needs sorting and he cannot just keep blaming you or his mum.

Night night

Agree, Rutho. I have a distant relation by marriage who virtually did this to her grandkids (went around telling everyone they were 'slow') and is now a lonely old woman after her ds just decided he couldn't be bothered any more. And the grandkids were relieved not to see her any more and got on fine just with one set of grandparents.

Wow nappies what an amazing woman you are and how far you have come in a couple of days.You are a wonderful mother and I think you are a pretty special wife/partner too.Your dh is lucky you are willing to keep working at the relationship.
Sleep well.

I did not realise this was you, I saw the thread in AC but did not click on it. I remember your first thread.

Sounds like you are getting somewhere. I am so glad that you have not backed down and that you are fighting so hard for your family. I do hope that your DH appreciates that.

I wonder whether it would be best for him to move into a flat for a set period of time. He needs to be alone, away from his mother's influence and you need the space to work out where you want to go from here.

Then you could meet as equals.

It seems to me that when you met you were the "weaker" partner due to your illness, then he has made you into the "stronger" one, the one who wears the trousers.

That is wrong. You need to be on a equal footing.

Oh My goodness I just typed out a really long post and DD just deleted the whole thing! I don't have the heart to write it again now!

I appreciate all of your kind words over the last few days - DD and I are off out shopping today and then to Sister's for Sunday lunch to keep us busy.

You all seem so wise! I always go to advise people on these board, type up the message then delete it as it seems woefully inadequate! How did you all become so knowledgable!

I'll be back if/when there are developments with DH - hopefully he will grow more aware of our problems when an objective counsellor sits in front of us and tells us this relationship isn't normal.

WRT MIL and terrible twos problems, she was already telling DH that she wanted DD to run and hug and kiss her and be excited about seeing her. What about if she grows up and doesn't do this? She didn't even like DD looking to me for reassurance if I was there, she's turn DD around/move/walk out with her! Everyone who's said she doesn't love DD as anything other than an object is right. FIL described her getting wound up and angry if her friends had their grandchildren with them without their parents around (note not upset or wistful, just angry because she didn't have her own way. Her friends are mainly maternal GMs by the way as we've had this conversation before about what all of her friends are allowed to do. She actually said that her friend is 'allowed her GS when ever she likes' - still makes the child sound like an object to be taken.

DH has a best friend similar to MIL really - doesn't like me, doesn't think I'm good enough, would let DH move in in a second. I promise you that I have given him no impression that could cause this opinion of me - and I know that I'm good enough for DH. But it must be DH that makes him think like that? It's always been for DH that any ego boost is a good ego boost.He even seems to get them from other people putting me down...

I'm still going to get legal advice tomorrow - I think that it's good to know where I stand. After all so far DH has just told me what I want to hear - he needs to take action and it will be a long time before our relationship is solid. It can't hurt anyway.

Hope you're all having a lovely weekend and are aware of how sane you managed to make me feel again. I have a lovely RL network, but was always worried that they were subjective, biased and maybe just soothing me with 'yes you're right nappies' etc!

I think things with your husband are going better than I expected at the moment.
I hope he is able to change his attitude with his mum, and the rest of his family as it doesn't sound as though any of them gave your daughter presents on her actual birthday or to the right name.
I find the stuff about his friend strange. Does the friend actually say this stuff when you are there or does your husband relay his negative comments to you? Either way your husband sounds bad for not sticking up for you or telling you unnecessary negative stuff.
They've all got to be less selfish and consider other people's feelings more if you are to want to see any of them.

2rebecca - actually a mutual female friend has told me in the past (and fairly recently actually). I have told DH but he will just tell me 'oh that's just x he's like that with everyone's wives/partners etc'. It is very odd. And I'm sick of DH telling me that I have to accept that this is what people are like! It's not behaviour that I understand.

Yes, bot don't forget that DH has had it practically drummed into him not to challenge.

I think your H is about to get a massive wake up call somehow, sounds like he's stirring...

In time he'll learn to stand up for himself, firstly against that friend of his...'That's my wife you are talking about...' and he leaves it at that, refusing to discuss it further... Then in time I dare say he'll be able to stand his ground with his mother.

Keep being strong, don't back down, hold your line, and help DH see how things really are. With help and counselling, I think the chances are extremely good indeed that you can salvage this and he can break the hold his mother has got over him.

LMHF - I'm glad that from the outside it looks salvagable too - that fills me with hope.

I feel a bit silly actually, but there isn't a mystery re why friend feels like that. It's literally only just dawned on me that this friend employs DHs mother as to clean 3 hours a week, he spends x mas with them and is in general v close to MIL. Why I didn't equate his attitude towards me with that before I don't know!

If there is enough between you & your husband, it´s worth trying.

As said, in a few years MIL might not be interested in your daughter-and your daughter certainly won´t be interested in her!

I hope your husband starts to realise that it´s OK to not actually get on all that well with his mum/parents & that liking yours & spending time with them isn´t disloyal.

I can´t believe how strong/organised you are.

I think he will realise what his mum is like-I mean, she has actually threatened to disown his daughter.

I can´t imagine how that must have made him feel.

Eventually, how I coped with visits was to not let ILs do anything with the children to annoy me & not to dissect the visits afterwards.

I´m sure that drove my husband mad-& I´m sure they never gave it a thought once we were out of the door!

As I said, it came soon enough when we moved abroad & they haven´t visited.

Their "love" isn´t enough to stretch to the effort of getting on a plane.

We used to tell the children they are old, it´s hard for them.
Until they realised that mine are older & do it!

So let her disown you, then!

What an evil, evil woman.

Your dh sounds very weak. Basically he has taken his frutrations with his mother (if you believe he now thinks she is unreasonable) out on you and your dd because its "easier"?????

Jeezuz!!

You sound very together. Very sure about what you are doing which is great. Get that legal advice....your MIL is not going to make things easy if you do split up.

Hi, just wanted to say how great I think you're handling this situation Please carry on being strong with them and oh, it will be a long way to recovery for your relationship, and he has a LOT to prove. But I'm sure you will both get there together. Your oh sounds like he's woken up a bit, just needs to put some actions in now. It can work out for you both if you carry on with what your plan is now e.g. standing firm/counselling etc. My dh and I managed to get through a similar situation an it's hard work, but worth it once your on 'the other side'. I still on occasions have to give him a little push if something's been said/done that I don't like and he sorts it out now (although this is thank goodness a rarity now!) Good luck with everything, and I really hope it all works out as you want it too.

P.s. next time you go to offer advice on mn, post it please...you sound very level headed and I'm sure it would be great !!

I think listening to the advice given here about writing lists down,having a journal and having everything in black and white on this thread have given me back the controlI needed. I can see by my first few posts what a state I was in. But having ordered thoughts, and most importantly keeping sight of a plan has been key to keeping me calm.

You all told me what was wrong with the situation, affirmed my emotions thought adn feelings - DH mainly invalidated them before now so you all made me feel more confident in going ahead with the course of action.

Although I wouldn't tell DH this (as he may think going AWOL is OK!) but I think his purposefully staying away for two days gave us both well-needed timeto think. If he had come home the first night and fussed about the party, tried to take DD without me etc, I think the outcome of this would have been much different.

I'm going to wait now to see if DH prompts me re Relate etc. I think that will be proof of how serious he is. Towards the end of seeing him yesterday he did sort of mention perhaps waiting, seeing how things went with him and his parents as we had a good conversation - it just sounded a bit like him backing out. But again, one step at a time.

DD and I need to eat- I was going to do an online shop, but DD loves being out and about and seeing people. She's a social butterfly! As you say, I think socially, some normality is what i need right now.

I would love to ask MIL one day on what planet she thinks emotional blackmail is an acceptable tool to get her own way! I was surprised that she had gone quite that far in what she had said.

Do you think MIL can help herself? I doubt it. Good grief, imagine what it must be like living inside her mind! No-one alive would want to trade places with her, would they?

I am so impressed with the way you've taken such a clear-eyed look at the situation, and in particular yourself. You've stoped believing the stories about you not being 'good enough' and it's amazing to see how strong you now know yourself to be.

I did read recently that some people see going to Relate as an admission of failure. It isn't of course any more than going to the dentist is, but maybe you need to watch for that with your dh.