Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Whatever happens, your in-laws don't get to be your marriage counsellors. Surely your FIL can see that?

You and your husband are the 2 who need to sort things out, if you go round there it will be 3 v 1.
Your inlaws need to butt out. If anyone else gets involved it should be a professional counsellor.
The inlaws are way down the list of people who need to be involved at the moment. You need lots of private discussions with your husband, and if the relationship is to work then you present a united front to all the rellies, and not in their houses but in your house or neutral ground. Tomorrow is several days if not weeks too early to be meeting his parents again.

This is all going to plan then! MIL is making it all about her, and wants a little showdown at her house tomorrow, so has got weak hubby to call you set it up. Fantastic! Please OP, do piss on her fireworks...and let them have their little meeting without you and your daughter. It's their mess and if your useless hubby goes - then lovely, they can all have a great time bemoaning their fate. Ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore. Rise above it. Enjoy your weekend, and let them all rot.

How are you this morning OP? Agree with others that you should not go tomorrow, and especially not with DD.

Morning all - Got a good sleep, DD did too so that's all fine on that front!

I heard from H late last night. He sent me a text to say 'Just to let you know I'm OK, still at work, I stayed in a hotel last night but I'll be home at 2am with my tail between my legs xx' (A phone call would have been better but suppose he was busy working).
I wasn't sure what to reply. There are a hundred things I want to say to him, but not by text. I wimped out slightly and said that he'd left his keys here and that I wasn't comfortable leaving the door open or the keys outside so he would have to find somewhere else to sleep tonight and that he should find a bed somewhere as he'd have been getting the couch here. He replied saying OK I understand.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I have no intention of seeing the ILs today. I'm assuming that MIL has desperately attempted to get FIL to do something in case all this affects her seeing DD. FIL did specifally say 'all of you' as in DH, DD and I. IF they did want a proper conversation about all of this, surely they'd think to find somewhere neutral and without dd the pawn in all of this! I sent a text back saying I didn't know where H was let alone if he'd be home and that if he did come home at some point there were lots of conversations that we would have to have before trying to sit down with PILs and hammer that out. He said OK whatever's best for you and DH.

So that's whree I am this morning really. NO plans to meet either of them, but I''m pretty sure that once DH wakes up wherever he is, he will turn up here either with or without calling first. I'm not ready for that. I don't know what direction I'm goign in now, and I know a conversation where he tells me that everythign I'm saying is fantasty will just drain me of the energy I've had.

I don't plan on telling him that I've had legal advice when I get it. I think that should it get to the point where things aren't going his way/he can't manipulate me and he uses his usual line about custody then I will probably use it. If nothing else it will put him on the back foot temporarily knowing that I've been seeking professional advise. He will then know that I'm serious. (I can understand why he would think I wasn't, I've put up with a lot in the past and just given in)

I know he is going to insist on seeing DD today even if I refuse to see him. I'm not looking forward to that, and God knows what I'm going to do.I feel like everything's a bit up in the air now...

Thanks for your messages last night. I can't tell you how much this is helping me. Now for a coffee to clear my head.

Is there anything he could say at this point, do you think, to salvage things?

LTJ - not anything immediate IYSWIM. There is an outside chance that this has been his lightbulb moment, that he's turning into his mother and that we need counselling both alone and together whether it be one or two sessions or 10.

We COULD come out the other side of this. But it would have to be actions and not words that would make me see a future for us. He's good with words, and crying and generally trying to make me forget that it was him who started an argument!

It very much depends on how he handles his mother too.I know that because PILs haven't seen her for her birthday yet that give it a day, DH will be asking to take her over there with his usual arrangement.

I think I'm wary this morning because both FIL and DH's responses were measured and calm. I know it doesn't stay like that for long (well FIL does, but not MIL)

I'm sure you're not going to, but I wouldn't drop in legal advice or anything into the conversation just yet. Try and get him to understand the seriousness of the situation without major histronics and drama - which is what he is used to.

It's not normal for someone to go awol for 2 or 3 days come home and then expect to take his dd off for a nice visit to the grandparents. If he even tries to do this, you have to say, no today is about us and we have a lot to talk (not argue) about given the last few days. If he reacts childishly, don't react back. Don't give him ANY opportunity to storm out with dd.

Make a list of things you want to say so you don't get sidetracked by an argument. This is not a man who knows how to communicate like an adult, so you're going to have to help him be that person.

I don't think you are necessarily going to get him to admit that he has a serious problem with his mother directly. I think your best bet is to get him to admit that family dynamics have broken down to the point that this is seriously affecting everyone - most importantly dd - and that he needs to have counselling and get his marriage back on track to move forward. Before you say too much - ask him what he wants too. Say you need reassurance. Pull some emotional buttons, don't reveal too much too soon in terms of your more practical plans.

Good luck, I hope you manage to really talk today. God knows you need to.

TBH, he should be spending the day with you & daughter & his parents should not figure at all.

As said, if he mentions his mum, she is imo, still far too important to him.

He should be making up to you for buggering off in a strop!

Cant do a long post - as I would like to - but just to say that things came to a head with my PIL last november and I told my dh a few home truths and that it was me or them and things have been so much better since!

Sometimes it takes breaking point to make them see the damage being caused.

I am not perfect. I dont pretend I am. BUT I am my dc mother and what I say goes. End of. If your dh does not accept that, its time to get out.

Best of luck xxxxx

Thank you - another lot of good advice! She doesn't have a passport yet, will keep birth cert in locked drawer in study.

I will certainly let him see DD today - I think I will use the time to go upstairs and write myself a list and keep calm.

Hopefully then if DD goes to bed/for a nap (depending on the time) we can sit down and have a meaningfull talk and see if there's anything left worth salvaging.

I have tried the calm conversations with him before - they don't tend to work he does just walk away but I like SugarMouse's suggestion of walking away first. He is so unbelievably hard to get to talk or to admit anything. I'm not sure today will be different. I will have to be restrained if he suggests MIL needs to see DD as birthday has passed they haven't seen her etc.

You must be worn out by this now. I personally wouldn't be allowing your oh to take your dd anywhere without you whilst thing's are as they are. I'm sure you would be within your rights to say you want his contact to be supervised at the moment, until you can trust that he won't cause problems giving her back to you? Gosh, he's really going to need to PROVE himself to you and show some HUGE actions of putting thing's right to get you back! It may be something to think about, but if he is back 'with tail between his legs'. Maybe confront him with everything...absolutely EVERYTHING that's happened over the year's, tell him you are not going to continue living like this and maybe you and dd stay somewhere for a few nights? It will make him realise that you are serious, and give him some serious thinking and reflecting time. Tell him he needs to think about what he wants and his behaviour/relationship with his mother - preferably without her input! He needs to choose between you and dd and his mother.

If you do decide to give him the benefit of the doubt then you must stay strong and not allow him ever to treat you and dd the way he has done. You must always be there when he and dd see pil, to show a united front, and she must show you respect otherwise your oh must intervene etc. I would say visits should be where YOU feel most comfortable, i.e at your house? Rather than mil if/when you have these?

Also there is no reason why she ever has to babysit your dd. Why would you leave your dd to be looked after by anyone who you don't trust? That is madness, and just because she's a GP doesn't mean that she is capable!

Becaroo - thanks for your post - I'm so glad your DH realised where his loyalties lay. I too know I'm not perfect - I admit as much to DH, but the trouble is according to him, his mother is!

mama - you're right - there need to be some huge changes - IF H and I were to give it a last chance, there won't be any of MILS 'I'm not coming to your house' etc. It will be for a while, my rules...is that fair? They can come here or we do every other time? Then when they've proved that they're capable of behaving like normal human beings, we can move on to less structured?

I want him to suggest ways forward though, not me. I'm sick of it because I have tried time and again to work through it with DH. i've told him that MILs actions aren't his responsibility as such, only the way he then deals with what happens. i.e. he couldn't have stopped her running out of the house with DD - however when she came home he could have left immediately telling MIL we won't be back for a couple of weeks as her behaviour was unacceptable?

His reply to that was that he can't do that as she's his Mum, it's too hard and that he didn't agree with me! So I think that's the trouble, he can't back me up, because he doesn't think that what his mother does is wrong.

Agree with diddl, I also think the days of him going to his parents without you are over and that you should be going too, or meeting somewhere neutral, or them coming to your house. Also make sure his extended rellies aren't all there trying to have an inapproriate "party" when you are both feeling stressed.

WRT your previous comment about never wanting nanna loony to babysit I think that you have to accept that if you get divorced this will happen sooner than if you stay together.
That isn't a reason to stay together but if you divorce you have no control over what happens to the kids (apart from them leaving the UK , any abuse or anything illegal) when they are with your ex.
I'm divorced and my kids see more of my ex's parents than they would have if we were together.
Occasional overnight babysitting isn't going to seriously harm a child even if nanna loony does things differently to you.
You could use the part she has played in trying to wreck your relationship, not using your child's name, competitive grannying, belittling you etc as a reason why you don't want shared care as you are concerned she will end up caring for your child and trying to turn her against you if your husband has equal residency.

You have to make it clear to your husband this is primarily about the relationship between the 2 of you and that visits to nanna loony are way down the list until you have sorted your relationship out and present a united front to her.

"It will be for a while, my rules...is that fair?"

Yes yes and a thousand times yes!!

You have been treated appallingly by your ILs and should not be considering their feelings at all.

And your husband is as bad because he has let it happen without defending you in front of them or even saying once you got home, blimey, mum treated you really badly.

If you say 6 months of not going to their house he should accept it.

He should accept anything to keep his family together.

Can he see that if you split it will be his fault for allowing his parents to treat you the way that they do?

They can only treat you this way because he allows it.

Hello,

Hope that things go well for you this weekend.

A while back dh and I had problems. I kept on doing the usual, 'you do this, you do that, you have to do this or I'm off' type stuff, which didn't work as I was trying to change him - it was very confrontational. Then one day I sat down and said, 'I've got a problem. When you do xxxx it makes me feel like this and this, and I'm not living like that any more.' And that was when he decided to change.

Your dh may not change, but you will have stopped trying to get him to, which is exhausting.

Thinking of you xxx

My MIL had a "breakdown" after dh and I got married.

She ruined the run up to my wedding day (so much so that I nearly cancelled it with 2 weeks to go) Bascially I gave her and dhs family the wedding they always wanted. It still rankles but not so much now tbh.

I dont do things/go places/see people I dont want to anymore just to please the PIL. I put my dc first and if that means NOT trekking up the motorway at xmas to see members of their family with a 32 year old SEN daughter who has terrible rages and terrifies my dc then so be it. (Didnt go down well!!) We see his parents a couple of times a week as they look after the dc (and are great with them) but its on my terms now which has made life better/easier.

I also dont put up with crap from SIL anymore either. You have never met such a self centred person in all your days!!!

I hate to say this, but I dont think from reading your posts that he is going to change. My dh is a good man, not verbally abusive or emotionally controlling like your dh.

Get out, stay out. Speak to someone regarding custody. Now.

I wish you and your dd all the best x