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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

OW got pregnant...

273 replies

drmac · 27/07/2010 22:24

my husband had an affair with a good friend of mine. She got pregnant and had a son.

We are trying to work through this and I am having another baby - due in November.

I'd just like to hear from other people who've maybe been through this.

How are things between you now? Do you think you'll ever completely get over it?

thanks

OP posts:
MabelMay · 29/07/2010 10:22

I think some of you have been ridiculously harsh on the OP. As if she hasn't got enough to deal with.
How can you judge her for being furious, resentful and unsympathetic with the OW, who was her "friend". You expect her to sympathise with this other woman? Just because she's 'Christian'?? She's a human being FGS.

It's natural to want to be more forgiving to your partner/husband/wife because that's what love is, isn't it, and that's the relationship that you most want to save?

OP, I don't really have any advice but I completely sympathise with you. It sounds like a horrible situation to be in and I hope with time things sort themselves out and that at some point your H is able to establish some kind of relationship with this other child, without it causing you too much upset.
It sounds like you've been very strong, unlike your H.

All the very best.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 29/07/2010 10:45

OP, can I comment on the recovery from this affair on its own please, without reference to his other son?

So you are about 18 months-2years down the line from discovery? I am interested in how you're feeling about the affair, the OW and your H.

You don't say anything in your posts about the journey he has made to analyse his own fidelity. From the way he is behaving, it would suggest that he has never truly taken responsibility for his infidelity, especially if after all this time, he is pursuing the "she chased me line". I think your journey also got stuck at some point if you're echoing that irresponsible idea too.

I am 2 years down the line myself, but it sounds like you, me and our Hs have travelled very different paths to understanding.

In the early days after my discovery, unlike you, I wanted to verify everything my H was telling me. He was an open book with his phone bills and showed me various texts and E mail correspondence between him and OW. It was these irrefutable bits of "evidence", together with his recollection of conversations between them, that allowed me to construct the story of the affair. Had the OW offered to send me E mails, I would have jumped at the chance. It was terribly important to me to verify what I was being told, rather than believing an understandably subjective account from a man who was abjectly sorry and distressed, but also minimising his own culpability.

It soon became clear that all this hand-wringing and saying sorry on his part was getting in the way of cold hard analysis and understanding. So my H went off to counselling on his own and read voraciously about how it had been possible for him to discard his values and risk the relationship that meant everything to him.

All these things had the effect of him taking complete and total responsibility for his actions. He had never once blamed me or our marriage and has never wavered from insisting that ours was a happy marriage, so the problem was him and not me or our marriage. In the early days however, he did have a tendency to blame the OW for things he did - and that had to stop.

In the process, he confronted things about his character that had led to this - selfishness, complacency, dislike of confrontation and difficult conversations - and resolved to change them. Consequently, those flaws have been banished and he is a much better person for it.

As for me, I would have accepted nothing less.

You see for me, I couldn't have stayed with a man who wouldn't take responsibility for his actions. I couldn't have respected him and since my respect for him had gone after the affair, only seeing him confront things he found difficult, restored that.

I'm curious how you can love and respect a man who is so obsessed with his own pain two years on, that he is neglecting yours and the OW's. He is still blaming and appears to be doing nothing about his own character flaws. Wearing a sackcloth and ashes is actually a controlling behaviour that stops the difficult stuff from being confronted. I'm surprised that you are not seeing this and that you're allowing him to control you in this way.

It is understandable to hate the OW and not forgive. To pick up on earlier Christian references, if she has never once said how sorry she was for betraying your friendship, it is pointless and impossible trying to forgive her. She was wrong to have an affair with your H and wrong to hurt you.

However, it is always erroneous to blame her more than your H. He could and should have said no to an affair.

What I learned from all this too is that you cannot forgive until you know all there is to forgive. You appear to have launched on a path to forgiveness without even wanting all the information. I think that's a huge mistake and will come back to bite you in the end.

I assume you want to affair-proof your future marriage and ensure this never happens again? What I can also tell you is that this never happens until the unfaithful party does some really necessary self-analysis and resolves to change their character. And it never happens if the betrayed party puts their head in the sand and hopes for the best.

You ask what can you do? As regards the OW and his son, you tell him that you will not be dealing with this any longer. He must take this on. If he doesn't - well it's again a matter for you whether you'd stay with someone who ignored a child, but I couldn't. I couldn't respect someone who did this and therefore wouldn't want a relationship with someone I didn't respect.

And unless you're prepared for this to happen again, or stay with someone who isn't worthy of respect, refuse to collude with his complete abdication of responsibility for the affair.

Sadly, you have made yourself more vulnerable by having another baby before he has done all the necessary work and perhaps because of this and your faith, he doesn't take you seriously and has no incentive to grow up and face this; he knows you'll stay with him whether he grows up or not. That is a lost opportunity for you and a real shame, but I do hope you start your own journey at some point and build enough esteem to start asserting yourself.

ReasonableDoubt · 29/07/2010 10:51

Great post, WhenwillIfeelnormal

SassySusan · 29/07/2010 11:07

Message deleted

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 11:13

WWIFN's post is basically why I managed to stay with my husband through all of the mess that was created out of the affair and pregnancy. I agree with her that it doesn't seem like you have tackled the affair but instead have gone straight to repairing what is broken. You will struggle to do that without working out why it happened in the first place.

The only thing I don't agree with though is to sort out contact with the child straight away. It will be such a nightmare right now. I don't think the child will suffer greatly for waiting another 12 months for example.

ReasonableDoubt · 29/07/2010 11:18

Sassy, people have bottom lines. Some of us don't really know what our bottom line is. Others have a bottom line and then find it completely shifts when they find themselves in a situation like this. I do understand that.

But some of us do have very clear bottom lines - about how we expect to be treated and what behaviour we expect from our partners. For example, I can categorically state that if my husband had an affair and got another woman pregnant, our marriage would be over. But that isn't really the point. I am not judging the OP for deciding that she wants to stay and work on her marriage.

What I do think is worth pointing out is that, for many of us, the sort of behaviour displayed by the OP's husband is a deal breaker. My bottom line would have been reached long ago, from what the OP describes. And I do think it is worth pointing out how the situation appears from the outside, in order to give the OP some perspective.

The cheating and the impregnating another woman is one thing. The refusal to man up and face his responsibilities, the refusal to properly work through his issues, the refusal to see his own child, the way he blames the OW for everything, and the fact that he puts his own 'pain' and 'illness' above the needs of anybody else in his life, including that of his betrayed wife - entirely another.

I don't think offering a few kind words of hope at this point would be doing the OP any favours at all. Things do not look good for her marriage and if her husband does not take some sort of drastic action, i personally do not predict that all will end well, here. Sorry.

LadyBiscuit · 29/07/2010 11:19

Great post wwifn. I think there is some great advice on here - yes some of it has been harsh but putting her DH into the victim box and the OW into the baddie one is not a tenable way of moving forward and building a strong relationship again SassySusan. A cup of tea and a load of 'there, there, dear's are not going to help the OP one iota, however comforting they are to hear right now.

grapeandlemon · 29/07/2010 11:31

Your h sounds pathetic and you sound deluded and somewhat cruel. Your anger is directed at the wrong person here. Take a good look at your h behaviour in this. Quite frankly he makes me want to puke from what you describe.

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 11:37

drmac, are you able to change your settings so I can send you a private message?

Flighttattendant · 29/07/2010 12:52

SFC80, how can you reconcile your being a 'mother' or carer for this child when you feel the way you do about her actual mother, ie you wish she would disappear off the face of the planet? In what way is this a healthy or good thing for this child?

I am sorry to say it but I feel the lengths to which you have done in order to punish the OW are shocking.

I can see why you have taken this child as 'born into your family' (which she wasn't) because it might enable you to regain a sense of control again after what must have been terrible hurt.

But really, she has a mother - and your attitude towards her mother is awful, disrespectful and extremely angry.

I cannot understand how this is in any way good for the child.

MorrisZapp · 29/07/2010 12:53

Sassy, you say that the OP hasn't advocated abortion.

I wonder, OP what did you mean then when you said that the OW 'chose to continue the pregnancy'?

Presumably you feel that she had a choice, and she could have ended the pregnancy. Presumably by way of a termination.

I'm sorry for OP too, and agree that this is a desperately sad situation all around, but my sympathy went down the plughole when I read that line.

I've met quite a few of these 'pick and choose' christians. They pick the bits of religious belief that will make their choices look morally admirable, and ignore those that cause them personal inconvenience.

Reminds me of the lady who slept with my sisters DP - she couldn't have a termination as it was against her religion. I've always wondered what religion that was, that advocates unprotected, extramarital sex with a man who is committed to somebody else.

I don't blame her, he was the weak and dirty shagaround. But her reasoning left me baffled I must say.

PadmeHum · 29/07/2010 12:55

What Anyfucker said.

X 100000000000000000000000000000

She makes sense. Listen to her.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 29/07/2010 12:59

SassySusan I think you're missing the point here somewhat. There is a difference between forgiving someone for their actions and forgiving someone for who they are. I know very well that I would not stay with someone who wouldn't take personal responsibility for damage caused by their hands. On that issue, I will never change. This isn't about affairs, or getting someone else pregnant, which are all "acts". Refusal to take personal responsibility is about how someone "is" - and that's what makes the difference.

camaleon · 29/07/2010 13:01

I do understand the OP is full of rage against OW... However, I cannot understand how she needs to justify the behaviouir of the 'd' H regarding the child.

I feel drmac you have an incredible need to 'save' him. you are not his mum, you know that?

I do not think people have been trying to be mean here. They are trying to make you escape from your own little trap... Have you thought that your husband could have decided to stay with the OW?

What would be your opinion then if he decided he could not face seeing your child because he was too sick. And certainly moving with the OW would be a much bigger change than staying with you.

You are not the one to blame. It is not your responsibility to create a link with that child. It is your husband's and you should not be involved at all in this. However, you are getting involved, and you are justifying him as your way of surviving and keeping the relationship.

And you are trying to use religion in a very strange way. This will catch you up. If you want to save your marriage, do it. It will not happen if you try using lots of lies (to yourself) and wobbly moral/religious grounds.

Coolfonz · 29/07/2010 13:02

A thread full of Pharisees who can't take criticism! Tsk...lame...

camaleon · 29/07/2010 13:03

I guess I just wanted to say what ReasonableDoubt said much better.

Flighttattendant · 29/07/2010 13:04

Coolfonz you are being a bit weird and aggressive.

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 13:04

Can you explain what kind of attitude you think I have to her mother and how it affects the child from what I wrote?

Yes I am angry at her. But I am an adult and can push my feelings aside so I can be civil to someone in person. I would never bad mouth her in front of her daughter or any of the children in fact.

And please, I made it very clear that the comment about her disappearing was in jest, hence the winky smiley after it.

How am I punishing the OW? I care for her child when she is with me. I facilitate contact between her child and her father. I am polite to her and talk to her. I just don't like the woman. Not much different to those work colleagues who really dislike each other but have to be nice to each other for the sake of the situation.

The only thing I can see as you interpreting as me "punishing her" is by insisting she has no contact with my H other than in relation to their child and that I am involved. She has to accept that she decided to have an affair and child with my husband. She included me in this situation as much as my H did. And if it was a simple affair, a betrayed spouse wouldn't be seen as evil for punishing the poor other woman by insisting on no contact between her partner and the OW. Because she happens to have given birth as a result, I must put my feelings aside and only consider hers?

I was giving the OP some advice in how we have managed to make this horrible situation work with as little damage to ALL children involved, because mine are as important as the child born out of the affair.

I'm also confused over the "she has a mother" comment. Where in my post did it give you the impression I didn't think that or was trying to go against it. I haven't tried go become her Mum. I am her Father's wife. She knows that.

How is "what" not good for the child? You appear to have read a lot into my post that wasn't there.

ReasonableDoubt · 29/07/2010 13:14

SFC80, it sounds like you have all made the best of a seriously fucked up situation.

I could never live with this sort of situation, personally. I couldnt live with all these strict rules about contact and having to bear witness to every email or phonecall between my DH and the OW, for fear of....what? It sounds so exhausting and so fragile and like it could all come tumbling down so easily.

I don't know what that says about me or about you, really. Maybe you are a stronger and better person than I am. Seriously (not being facetious.

I just know I could never do it...

theQuibbler · 29/07/2010 13:14

I don't know SFC8O - you just make it all sound so chilling and punitive. I don't know why, and I'm sure I'm wrong, but I really get that vibe from your words and understand what Flightattendant can see.

OP, if you really want your marriage to work, you're really going to have to step up and do some difficult things. Stop letting your DH get away with this behaviour - it's really not going to do you any favours in the long run.

You should really look into some counselling for yourself, before the baby arrives. God knows you're not going to have the time afterwards, and this situation isn't going to go away. Unless your DH decides to lose all contact with the child, which appears to be a distinct possibility.

Flighttattendant · 29/07/2010 13:17

This:

'This all helped our relationship and had no effect on the child at all. Pretty much tough on the OW and how she felt about it. She didn't factor in the decisions and my H made it very clear to her that although she may have only been thinking in the child's best interests, he has his family to consider too so their priorities are different some what.'

is extremely contradictory. Yes, yes on the surface you are acting very nobly but I refuse to subscribe to the idea that there is no ulterior motive, because it seems very clear from your post that it isn't about being fair, or doing what is best for the child, or her relationship with ehr mother or indeed her father. It's about what's best for your marriage.

I cannot reconcile 'had no affect on the child at all' with 'Pretty much tough on the OW and how she felt about it' because if a woman is distressed, scared, under duress when handing her own child over to someone who loathes, her, this is very, very bad for the child to witness.
A child needs one stable parent - not two necessarily, and particularly not two if it is at the cost of the stability and respect of one of them.

'She didn't factor in the decisions' and you say you are not punishing her? Effectively you have taken away her child some of the time, and her right to make decisions about what is best for her child.

I can see what you are trying to do but it isn't about the child.

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 13:20

I completely understand reasonabledoubt. Up until I was thrust into the situation I would have laughed in someone's face if they had asked what I would do if my husband had an affair and got the woman pregnant. I would have said I would have kicked his backside to the curb. But until you're in the situation it is very difficult to say what you would do for absolute certain.

theQuibller - perhaps it's because it is just writing on a screen and was rushed at that. We are certainly not doing things to "punish" the OW. We set up boundaries in order for our relationship to continue whilst still having to have contact with this woman. Contact that is normally stopped completely in the normal "affair" situation. This was on advice of marriage counsellors to try and limit to damage but also ensure that my husband's daughter got a relationship with her Dad. It was very strict at first, but we are over a year into contact now and things are a bit more chilled out.

Flighttattendant · 29/07/2010 13:20

Plus in no way do I consider preventing unsupervised contact with your H a punishment for the OW.

That's not what I was talking about at all. I'm talking about undermining someone as a parent. It's cruel and it's wrong but you have somehow turned it into an act of judicial correctness.

I can't subscribe to that. All you are doing is coming between the child and its mother.

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 13:28

We have taken away her child for some of the time?! If she had wanted a loving, 2.4 children set up then she shouldn't have got pregnant by a married man really. Apologies if I don't have any sympathy for that.

So flightattendant, are you saying that we should have done everything by the mother's say so. She makes the rules and we should jump? Never mind our relationship or more important the 2 other children in this situation.

My step-daughter's mother agreed to the third party being present and me being involved from early on, probably because she could see that our boundaries were for us and they wouldn't affect her child adversely. It worked. We see my step-daughter regularly and we all get on amicable for the children's sakes.

SFC80 · 29/07/2010 13:29

Please explain where we have undermined her as a parent and come between her and her child?! I would love to know what we have done that is so awful.

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