Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

If George has got 1 x 1 year sentence and 1 x 2 year sentence to run concurrently, then he'll serve two years. 40% of that is 9.6 months, so he could be out by the end of July? If he behaves himself, of course.

Thinking of prison news - please please please can we not have him having an affair with a female prison guard

It's usually the obvious psychopaths who attract female staff for some reason. Not just prison officers but psychologists, teachers, librarians, etc. Saviour complex meets superficially charming manipulator.

I’m sure I read a news article about people arriving illegally in Norway and deliberately breaking the law so that they could be sent to a Norwegian prison which would be a better option than living free in their home country.

I Googled the prison my sister visited and it looks like Centre Parcs. So I can understand the logic there if you are fleeing a hellish situation in your home country.

Shocked at Fallon. Thought it was quite out of character. The whole storyline highlighted what an arse she is married to.

I think the sw expected us to sympathise with Harrison and poor men having no say over their wives bodies

I don’t think anyone else from Ambridge was there, so it must have been Adam and Lilian?

Fallon and Jolene were also there. It wasn't explicitly stated that no one else was. We know about Adam and Lilian because George and Emma saw them going in, and about Jolene because Emma mentioned it to Susan.

It's possible that Mick or Joy or even other villagers turned up to watch.

It was in poor taste whoever did it. Out of the people we know to have been present, my money would be on Adam.

I first went off Fallon when she was nasty to Alans daughter when she slept with Chris. It was none of her buisness but the poor girl left after that. Fallon deserves Harrison and I hope her cafe fails and before that Natasha finds out and sacks her and (Shock!) gets someone to run Teerum who's not from Ambridge.
Fallon didnt really have to write a statement and I hope Emma goes for her.
Also how much money has Brian got because Alice has gone to rehab twice now and I wouldnt think its cheap
especially the big estate one she went to.

Given that at least half of them are female, I'd be surprised if that were so! (Not that I'm implying that most men feel this way either.)

Oh yes the Emma Freud interview on Today? Yes she was emphasising the Serious ISSHHOOZ element of the podcast and she said the seeds of George's incarceration began with the Post Office raid 30 years ago

So I think that means they are going to feature a return of Uncle Clive

You have more faith than me in our fellow women

"... she said the seeds of George's incarceration began with the Post Office raid 30 years ago"

What a silly woman.

My boss listens to the lunchtime repeat (and then comes into my office and we discuss the episode in great detail, much to the disgust of my non Archers listening colleague) is absolutely furious with Emma Freud for dropping that spoiler this morning.

She's going to complain and to be honest, my boss is the sort of woman who could bring the entire BBC down purely because they've annoyed her.

”there has been an awful lot of history being re-written about Alice hitting rock bottom and Martha being impacted because of the crash”

There is indeed a lot of history being rewritten. Alice never pretended she was not an alcoholic or was not in the car in the lay-by passed out drunk. I think her statement was entirely honest. Let’s stick to the scripted facts.

Alice gave Martha up to Chris specifically because of what George did to her. Chris did not want her to, but even though she knew she could not have done it, she had to believe the evidence set up by George, so could no longer trust herself with Martha specifically because of that. All ver clearly scripted.

She was facing prison and blaming herself for (physically and mentally) damaging those in the other car and believed she was responsible for aborting her best friends baby, losing her friendship and being aggressively verbally attacked by Harrison. Clearly scripted and a direct result of George setting her up.

Can you imagine the guilt and mental turmoil. Remember how after she had the strength to plead not guilty Chris said she was suddenly like the old Alice. That is an indication of what George’s cruel and very deliberate act did to her, dragging her from seat to seat. Letting her go to court and take the blame and face imprisonment for something she did not do, letting her think she was out of her mind.

Also there are suggestions by others that Fallon’s statement was dishonest and hate being poured on her too. If we stick to facts what was dishonest in it? It all seemed completely factual and honest from her point view. She even very honestly made it clear that she did not know if the accident caused the miscarriage or not.

Obviously the defence solicitor was laying it on thick about a momentary swerve when Alice was trying to get out of the car. In truth Alice had repeatedly asked him to stop and that she felt sick, he had plenty of time to stop, even when she was ineffectively flipping the door opener whilst all the time still strapped in. She was being manhandled by George and being driven away against her stated will. She told him to stop from the outset. But George knew best!

Someone suggested Alice’s car was not even scratched. This cannot be correct as you clearly heard the glancing impact between the cars before Mick was forced to swerve and went into the bridge wall. Surely George should have been driving slowly towards a hump backed bridge anyway, but was described as coming out of nowhere. His deliberate coverup would have course given strong suspicion that it was because he was drunk driving, as that would have been a prime motivator.

Someone said this was about class and I think it is for some and actually think it quite patronising to George and his family. All the hate poured on Alice for daring to be honest about the horrible impact of George’s fitting her up and him very clearly having no intention to fess up himself. Was there this concern about Freddy and he at least never tried to set someone else up. George came from a very loving and supportive family worth more than money. He was also quite spoiled and allowed to get away with previous vindictive and cruel behaviour. Would letting him get away with it again not be further positive reinforcement for his indefensible behaviour.

As I have said previously the fact George felt so guilty about it makes it worse as he fully understood what he was doing to Alice and Martha and Chris, (he even apologised as he did it) but was fully prepared to let Alice take the blame and likely prison (which interestingly at that point, seemed to some like a good place to be, when it was Alice potentially going there for the crime of being set up by George)

I also think it realistic Alice’s family being pleased that George face the consequences of the horrible thing he very deliberately, knowingly and ongoingly with no intention of fessing up did to Alice.

It almost seems for some like
Alice and Fallon being honest, bad and deserve all things horrible for their trauma
George one again very deliberately setting someone up, fine
As mentioned by another poster - VICTIM BLAMING

I recall one poster even suggesting it was right Alice take the blame for George’s actions because her family were wealthy/posh!

As you state alcoholism is an illness and George did an awful thing. His family were fully ripping Alice apart and thought she deserved all she got when they thought she was guilty of George’s actions and unlike George she was not very deliberately trying to set someone else up.

I agree with @Bruisername that Alice is too comfortable by half and hemmed in by enablers on every side.

And with @Gonners about a newfound dislike of Fallon.

A lot of this is bad sw and poor acting

Emma and Susan are flawed but are very human

fallon and Alice are flawed but idolised and they just don’t come across as human to me and so I can’t like them!

Will he necessarily stay in the adult prison? Surely they aim to ship children out as soon as possible? It may also be one of the lowest category prisons and therefore not necessarily as grim as we might imagine.

I was quite interested to read, I think it was that the person voicing Tracy used to voice Alice.

I recall when one of Susan’s bad boy brothers visited, little George became absolutely obsessed with wanting to be a burglar like him. Later moved on to becoming religion mad when Nic took up church.

While I agree with all that, I don’t think it’s consistent with the writing of her character’s previous reactions to the situation. Harrison writing it though? Yes.

He’s not a child. He’s a young adult.

Don’t they all start in a mid category and only get sent to a low category later?

He's not a child. He'll be 20 in April.

George is going to the Under 21s wing in an adult prison. He is therefore appropriately located and there is no need to move him to a Young Offender Institution.

I am assuming he is in a large local prison at the moment. That will be grim. I am guessing he will either spend his whole sentence there or he could be moved later to a Category C prison, or possibly even an open prison. Category C will still be grim. One of the main problems with prisons is not just the loss of liberty, or the generally awful living conditions, but the fact that you are housed with other criminals, some of whom are seriously unpleasant people.

Some one said they though George would not have any problems because he is a well built young farm labourer. Being well built will be an advantage, although I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that George is a fighter. His main problem will be that he is not at all streetwise.

I am very much hoping that Uncle Clive does not make a reappearance and that Emma is not stupid enough to ask him to use his contacts to protect George in prison. George absolutely must use this as an opportunity to make a fresh start in life and that won't happen if he or his family end up beholden to Uncle Clive in some way.

I like the fact that we are quite polarised in our views on George's sentence. That feels realistic and suggests good quality writing and characters with some complexity.

Like @VoxPop I was wondering if there had been all this fuss when Freddie was incarcerated. I don't remember feeling the same way about Freddie being banged up as I do about George. I think that is because the writing and acting were less good and so I didn't become emotionally involved.

Once a programme has been aired for the first time, spoilers do not apply, so good luck to her with that.

*Anyway, it didn't come across well. Emma Freud confidently asserted that George had been sentenced to three years in prison, and it was criticised as a spoiler but not for being wrong. @Fink

Freud replied “that’s not my problem” when someone said they hadn’t yet listened.
I definitely won’t be listening to an Archers podcast presented by someone who doesn’t care about Archers fans who like to listen in the afternoon.