Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

Now a little plug for the podcast on broadcasting house

emma freud comes across as such a know all but also really trying to make it all sound so important. I know I like to talk about it but come on, it’s light entertainment not panorama

I have a question - were Beth and Ben living together? Where?

In Bess's house.

Actually I don't think they were living together but I still pine for that Beth, Ben 'n' Bess household that could have brought such joy, particularly combined with the Ambridge habit of eating and speaking at the same time.

Yes, they were.

Originally Shula allowed Josh and Ben to move into The Stables, so Beth moved in too. Then when Ben became distraught over Chelsea’s pregnancy / termination he decided he wasn’t fit to be with - and threw Beth out.

It was weird and distressing.

Oh ok - so he was living with Josh before Lily and Paul moved in?

I was thinking about how they have done things to characters I think don’t work and one example was Jill during that time.

every pregnancy sl I’ve heard in recent times seems to have centred the man’s reaction

New thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/5186352-archers-thread-175-crime-punishment-and-kittens-discuss-the-archers-here

Give it a rest. I haven't victim blamed Alice. You Clearly have issues asround those of us who have been seriously adversely affected by feckless alcoholics* in our families/lives pointing out the other side of dear saintly Alice's actions.

And I am sorry if that is triggering for you but we also have a right to comment. I am not the only one saying this.

NB: I have not called Alice feckless. Although clearly I think she is, and that she, Fallon and the barrister were revising her recent history to the detriment of George**

**not entirely fairly but understandable

*who clearly deserved punishment

The podcast and Emma Freud were fine. Good to hear the young Kate again.

I hate the sniping on here, almost as much as I dislike the overuse of the word literally. Stop it please.

You really didn’t need to post this It’s horrible being picked on on this thread and even if you don’t agree with his/her contributions are certainly not spoiling this thread in the way you imply. I’m no Pollyanna but can we perhaps move on from the sniping please.
This. I enjoy @VoxPop 's contributions. Team Alice here too.
Honestly, some of you seem to hate every character and make scathing comments about the scriptwriters.
You don't have to listen to The Archers.
unless you are like me and can't not listen

The point being that we are allowed to criticize Alice. Some posters seem to think we can't because she can't help herself. That is all it is.

I agree we can criticize who ever seeing its not real life but everytime you say anything against Alice you get a long thread telling everyone how wrong we are and victim blaming so I do think it does spoil the thread to some extent, so I will skip through "she who shall not be named"threads and if you think Im being rude so be it.

I think one can skip posts, or not-answer them if challenged to do so and explain why, and then leave it. But it seems to me that piling on either in agreement or in disagreement, and being personal about the poster rather than about their post, may come very close to a sort of mass bullying, and not be the best way to go.

I left this thread for some time on a previous occasion precisely because of such a pile-on of which I was the butt, and I wouldn't want to cause someone else to suffer it. I only answered as I did because I was directly referenced in the post to which I replied, and it made me cross. I didn't want to appear to be being cowardly by not responding. I ought to have kept quiet. Sorry.

I too have had what I considered bullying on here, and I considered it racist, although I had not indicated my heritage.

You don't need to apologise @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , your encyclopaedic knowledge of TA is appreciated.

I've just listened to the podcast. Robert Rinder was interesting on the subject of sentencing, but apart from that I found it pretty dull and won't be bothering with it again.

Genuine question: if someone has no idea of your race, can something they say to you be racist against you in particular? I mean, they can't exactly intend it to be if they don't know what your race is and hadn't considered it in what they said. This is muddled, but if for instance you had a go at something Sami, and it upset me because I was Sami, would that be racist bullying of me, or would it be anti-Samism but not bullying me, or what?

I don't know how many posts there are left for this thread, but I'd rather ask this here than on the new one, and you might be able to explain it in a way I can understand; I've puzzled slightly about this for a while.

@Samphire44 **As it stands (if we assume he was dangerous driving) I would class it as a c2 offence as the underlyingboffence was not serious and the innocent party was not sent down as a result of the perversion so between 6 months and 1 year.

I think Eddie was right, better legal advice and encouraging him to plead not guilty would have given a much better outcome.**

As others have said the conviction for PCoJ doesn't rely upon dangerous driving being proven. George had no choice but to plead guilty to the PCoJ charge at the very least, he admitted everything to the police. In a real sentencing the Judge would have explained the 'starting point' under sentencing guidelines and then applied a discount for an early guilty plea. I think George was well advised re a guilty plea in the circumstances.

The sad reality is any charge would have been unlikely had he owned up straight away.

Re Eddie's comments in criminal law there aren't many solicitors who practise on an exclusively private basis. It's usually a mixture of legal aid and private clients. I didn't see anything in the advice solicitor Sharon and George's counsel gave him that appeared questionable. I genuinely don't believe the outcome would have been any different if he'd paid privately. In my experience legal aid lawyers are really hard working and some exceptionally skilled practitioners work on a legal aid basis in the criminal courts.

I do think Rinder is right though and his age, clean record, good employment record etc might have tipped in into a suspended sentence in RL.

Lillian and Adam's reactions left me with the words of Lord Timpson running through my head... we are addicted to punishment in this country. I passionately believe prison should be about rehabilitation which is entirely lost on Lillian and Adam. George could have been more effectively rehabilitated with a community based sentence.

Agree with poster who says this has soured my view of Lillian. I've always been neutral towards her but now I think she's a Daily Mail reader with zero concept of 'but for the grace of god'.

I would object to racism even if it wasn't directed at me.

Yes, obviously, but that isn't my question. The proposition was that "I too have had what I considered bullying on here, and I considered it racist, although I had not indicated my heritage."

Very interesting post, @PatChaunceysFruitCake. If you can face it, could you copy it across to the new thread?

I'm hoping a lot of other stuff can be left on this thread. [Pollyanna mode: ON]

Sure @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, thanks for the new thread.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , if I posted something that suggested I spoke Hebrew or followed the Jewish faith, and a few posters were quite mean to me, it might come across as being racist towards me even though I hadn't mentioned my heritage/faith.
(I'm not Jewish and don't know any Hebrew, but it's that sort of thing.)

I mentioned upthread that racism is often subtle. You won't necessarily notice it unless it's directed at you. I defended Lynda saying she wasn't racist, but had I been Khalil, I'd probably have taken it to be racism.

I see what you mean. Thanks!

So knowing about something against which some people are prejudiced may lead to misguided racism against the person with the knowledge? Seems like weird behaviour on the part of the bully, to me. (I wish I spoke Hebrew! There's interesting stuff there.)

I think if I had been Khalil I'd have thought Lynda was being anti-townie rather than anti-brown-person: almost all her crossness was about people from towns or cities or "the metropolis", of which she wrongly assumed him to be one. I think he acknowledged that when they met again in his house and he said "the obnoxious woman" was "rural", after winding up both Lynda and his mother by calling that "the r-word", a bait to which they rose like trout on a warm evening.

That "r word" comment made me laugh - Khalil is a naughty boy, but I find him likeable.

I wish I spoke Hebrew! Me too.
I find him likeable. Me too.

There's frequently some really nasty bullying and pile ons on MN but not on The Archers threads. So let's not make out there is.

Ditto racism.

Anyway, Peace & Love to all - as MNHQ used to say in the days when they chatted to their users.

Going back to Emma's reaction to George's sentence - she sounded like she was having a panic attack. God I wish she'd got her house a while back.

Anyway, Peace & Love to all

Reported