Archers thread #173: The Fall of the House of Grundy? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you wish we were hearing more of Pip, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I chose the thread title to echo one I used three years ago, which is here if anyone fancies a trip down Memory Lane: www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4320618--Archers-thread-130-The-Fall-of-the-House-of-Aldridge-Discuss-The-Archers-here. That was the thread where I caused all sorts of confusion at the start by not starting it before the old thread filled up, but others stepped in, fortunately.

At that point I see Ruairi was heading off to London to start his degree, which he has now finished, with none of us any the wiser about what he studied or where. Perhaps this will finally be mentioned now he's graduating.

And now, over to you!

Unfortunately, I think Eddie was always deeply unpleasant at heart; he was just sheltering behind a facade of chortling comedy yokel.

I suspect he sees George as a chip off the old block and what’s more, the one with potential to be really successful in sticking it to the man (ie the Archers/the rule of law generally/anyone he perceives to be oppressing the poor, benighted Grundy family). Except now George has been well and truly done for, with no chance of wriggling out of it in time-honoured Grundy fashion, and he doesn’t like that one bit.

Didn't George rip off his grandad with that Sure Fire Money-spinner that involved him buying loads of (it turns out) quail chicks?

I obvs have zero-tolerance for what George did and while I hate to see a young man’s future being written off, he needs to learn actions have consequences.

Unfortunately he's never learned that lesson previously - his parents have hopelessly indulged him, particularly Emma. It carries on now as she wails that he's "just a kid" when he's been charged with perverting the course of justice because he tried to frame someone else for a life-endangering car crash They have massively failed him, as has Eddie - lest we forget, George's foray into dodgy vapes that landed someone in hospital was glossed over by Eddie who essentially just told him to rein it in a bit so as not to get caught. Now that lack of life lesson has snowballed with catastrophic results.

I thought everyone behaved entirely in character last night which is what made it such a brilliant episode. Clarrie has neatly been removed to Norfolk - she would have intervened on behalf of Susan and tried to reason with Eddie. In her absence Eddie reacted entirely as expected IMO. It's so cleverly plotted - Susan fully understands (and has experienced) the consequences of not doing the right thing and trying to protect a family member who she knew was a wrong 'un. But Emma didn't find out what George had done until his deception was already well underway - I think if he'd asked her for advice in the moment she would have urged him to hold his hands up and tell the truth. He'd already made things much worse for himself by the time he confessed to her. Eddie's reasoning, that in fact Alice deserved to take the blame because she was an alcoholic and was unconscious through drink at the wheel of her car was not much different to the arguments made by some posters on here. The only false note for me was Oliver - a man still in charge of and apparently implicated in the running of GG despite having sold it - still living at Grange Farm and going out to do the shopping in Clarrie's absence. Perhaps he'll be the one to talk sense to Eddie in Clarrie's absence - otherwise what's the point?

George's foray into dodgy vapes that landed someone in hospital

Did it? Who? All I now remember is that ickle Jawidge made himself rather sick.

I thought there was someone who ended up having to go to hospital - may well have been George but I seem to remember he tried to drag Brad into it?

Weren't they pheasant chicks rather than turkey poults? But yes.

I loved the scene with at the Terum. Tom behaving as if he was role playing a conflict resolution workshop at a business training seminar - desperately trying to keep a handle on the business he and Natasha have snatched from under Fallon's nose thus making the irreconcilable staff differences now very much his problem. Fallon reminding us (as if we needed reminding) that one of the unforeseen consequences of the crash is the bomb it has put under her marriage - I think she could have overlooked her near death experience of plunging into the Am, it's the pregnancy she (and Harrison and the rest of the village) would never otherwise have known about that has caused the damage. What I don't think she (or anyone) quite realises is that if it hadn't been her trapped in the car, I'm not sure George would have been so quick to dive in to the rescue.

I agree with you too, it was great. However, are you saying that Fallon would probably have miscarried even without the accident, and perhaps not even realised she was having a miscarriage? Otherwise she would have known about it eventually. To be honest, as discussed at the time, the person most at fault in the whole pregnancy scenario is the doctor who told Fallon while Harrison was in the room. If that has been dealt with properly she could just have kept the information to herself, much as she might have done if she had just found out she was pregnant in the usual way.

However, are you saying that Fallon would probably have miscarried even without the accident, and perhaps not even realised she was having a miscarriage? Yes. Though I agree the doctor was equally to blame.

However, are you saying that Fallon would probably have miscarried even without the accident, and perhaps not even realised she was having a miscarriage?

Quite possibly - Fallon clearly didn't know she was pregnant so it may well have been that she'd already miscarried or was in the process of it. According to Google, elevated hormone levels can be detected for some time afterwards. Also, Fallon had a coil fitted which works by reducing the ability for an embryo to implant due to the reduced womb lining (as well as reducing the chances of an egg being fertilised in the first place, but Fallon was past that point). So the chances were she was unfortunate enough to have a test carried out which picked up the hormone levels of an embryo that had already gone or was "just passing through".

That’s what irritated everyone - the way it was accepted that the accident caused the miscarriage when it was purely circumstantial.

however, she seemed to have a tough time with the miscarriage so are we to believe she was quite far along? How likely is that?

Sorry, didn't mean to post the same comment, it was still in the text box for some reason and I didn't realise!

ISTR that Fallon did gently point it out early on but Harrison was having none of it. No one else would know the details, only what Harrison told them. Perhaps it's an irresponsible story line but it is credible. Maybe someone will restate the point (for the sake of listeners rather than plot) when Harrison finally runs out of breath. Which could be quite soon.

Who is the SW at the moment, does anyone know? Is it still Nick Warburton? He can be v good.

However, are you saying that Fallon would probably have miscarried even without the accident, and perhaps not even realised she was having a miscarriage? Otherwise she would have known about it eventually.

Yes, but she might have gone to the doctor alone and had the choice of whether to tell Harrison, or at least mentally prepared herself without him. The doctor was definitely to blame as , telling them, rather than her.

The scriptwriters have chosen to write Harrison as acting as if only this catastrophic accident could have caused the miscarriage what is key to the plot is that it was the accident that brought the miscarriage to light - whether it actually caused it is neither here nor there really. Up until the point the doctor announced the pregnancy it was assumed (even by Harrison himself I think it’s fair to say) that he and Fallon would not have children. Harrison had accepted this and there had been no arguments about it. It was only when presented with the possibility of an actual pregnancy (which Harrison almost took to be a divine intervention) that he suddenly realised how much he wanted to be a father and to what extent he had buried these feelings. I think his anger with Alice and now George is as much about this as about the loss of the actual pregnancy itself. It is about the loss of something he didn’t even know he had which has unleashed an unquenchable yearning for something he can never have.

Sorry, I'd already typed this before I noticed that previous posters were already discussing the possibility that the crash may not have been the cause of Fallon's miscarriage so I'm treading old ground, but heres my original post anyway.
Apologies if this has been discussed in previous threads, but in all of Harrison's storming round the village blaming first Alice and now George for killing 'his' baby, oh, and nearly killing his wife, as he mentioned seemingly as an after-thought when assaulting George, neither he or anybody else in the village seems to have entertained the possibility that Fallon's pregnancy loss may have been entirely unconnected to the accident.
I seem to remember that, when Fallon and Harrison attended the scan where they were told there was no fetal heartbeat, the ultrasound technician did point out that the pregnancy could have ended for any number of reasons at any point and that the accident wasn't necessarily the cause. Harrison immediately ignored this and jumped straight to blaming Alice, but I'm surprised that neither Fallon nor anyone else has pointed out that the accident, though traumatising, may well have had nothing to do with the miscarriage.
I am aware this plot was introduced to stir up more drama and possibly to show up cracks in Fallon and Harrison's relationship, but I feel like medical facts, like the fact that was Fallon was probably very early in her pregnancy and that her IUD would have increased the chances of any accidental pregnancy being non-viable, have been completely dispensed with by the scriptwriters in favour of hearing more of Harrisons vendetta against those who killed 'his' baby.
Ignoring scientific facts in favour of melodrama seems a bit irresponsible and I'm not sure that failing to acknowledge the fact that early pregnancy loss is sadly all too common and can happen to anyone for a number of reasons, almost always completely unrelated to anything that the pregnant woman or any other person did.
That the scriptwriters have to chosen to write Harrison as acting as only this catastrophic accident could have caused the miscarriage, and having nobody, even Fallon, gently suggesting he is wrong, is both medically inaccurate and quite disrespectful to listeners who have actually suffered pregnancy loss in real life.

Beautifully put as always @LillianGish .

I’d forgotten about the coil. I had one for over a decade, never had a single pregnancy scare.

That the scriptwriters have to chosen to write Harrison as acting as only this catastrophic accident could have caused the miscarriage, and nobody, even Fallon, gently suggesting he is wrong, is both medically inaccurate and quite disrespectful to listeners who have actually suffered pregnancy loss in real life

oh. I thought it was just an illustration of what a self-obsessed, selfish, ignorant, Neanderthal wanker Burns is.

And I can’t really think of the accident as ‘catastrophic’. One vehicle: no damage to occupants. Other vehicle (as a result of the plummet into the raging streamlet): one fractured clavicle and mild concussion; one bruised ribs. Miscellaneous: several startled stickleback; trauma to a wholly imaginary sheep in the next parish.

Don’t forget Rex’s boat needed a paint job

I think the Ambridge Bridge Horror Night! also produced a poorly tummy (Denise) some traffic disruption (the whole of north Borsetshire) (or possibly south Borsetshire) for a long long long time, and a lot of local geographic confusion online.

Seems pretty catastrophic to me.

Has Fallon actually ever made it clear to Harrison that even if she hadn't miscarried she would have had an abortion? She seems absolutely certain she doesn't want to be a mother.

I saw this office chair today and wondered about other Archers characters products. Would you buy a Peggy Woolley jumper? A pack of George Grundies for your DH?

Horror Bin Bags

I think one of the things this storyline highlights beyond all others is the importance of discussing with potential life partners where you both stand on the issue of children. Fallon didn’t reveal her fundamental objection until they were married and Harrison went along with it - because she was so very adamant. Part of the problem for me is that Harrison is an objectionable character in other ways, but I think men should be allowed to be upset about the loss of a baby or in this case the loss of the possibility of having one.