Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

Unfortunately yes

George doesn't want to get involved with Tilly because he doesn't think he's going to be around - he's going to be in prison in the not too distant future. That's the same reason he only wanted the most basic haircut, nothing fancy and attention - catching. He knows he's going to confess soon, when he finds the courage. That's how I interpreted those scenes with Chelsea.

Yes I agree with you. To be honest it puts my teeth on edge a bit when they call Camila ' The Queen'. There is only one Queen in my eyes and she has gone now sadly.
The SW like repeating people annoyingly asking questions. Like Chelsea and George, she was like Paul asking Alistair about the sheep on the night of the crash. On and on. Really got on my nerves.

That’s what I thought too. What with Alice saying that she has more memories of that night but none of her driving, it’s all going to come out at some point (hopefully sooner rather than later for all our sakes). She remembers George’s voice…

Yes all his behaviour suggests that - like helping with his sister (not sure why Ed needed help with Poppy?). Not sure if the Chelsea bit was supposed to bring light relief (failed if so)

so Alice just needs to realise she heard George’s voice before the accident rather than just after

The Aldridge’s will want George’s blood once it all comes out (Kate in particular will be vicious) but I think Alice will be sympathetic or at least not as angry as the rest of her family. He should confess to her first.

Might Fallon, Joy and Mick be persuaded to make a statement in court asking for leniency given the circumstances? A sort of reverse impact statement. Harrison will lose his mind of course and not sure I can deal with any more wailing about the baybay but it was an accident, he saved at least one life and he is barely an adult. If he pleads guilty and doesn’t make Alice go through a trial perhaps he will get a reduced sentence.

Time to wheel Usha out (no idea what her area of specialism is, she’s been called on to help out with a range of legal ishoos over the years)

Time to wheel Usha out (no idea what her area of specialism is, she’s been called on to help out with a range of legal ishoos over the years)

She seems to be an Usha of all trades, mistress of none. If it's left to her, both George and Alice will probably end up in prison.

Yes I agree with you. To be honest it puts my teeth on edge a bit when they call Camila ' The Queen'. There is only one Queen in my eyes and she has gone now sadly. , @Alwaysdieting . That sums up my feeling too. The Queen had always been there, and IMO put duty above all else, which isn't something I get a sense of from King Charles.
I have a lot of respect for Princess Anne.

To give Charles his due though, he's come to the throne late in his life and needed to move the monarchy into a new stage, but with the added complications of his brother and son's lives.

I see Camilla as a consort, not as 'the Queen'.

Maybe the 'Aunty Alice' will be what triggers Alice's memory of that evening. As far as I know she has never been known as 'Aunty Alice' to any of her nieces or nephews.

Or maybe just talking to George again - I don’t think she’s spoken to him for a while.

I think she does remember that she heard George’s voice before the accident and was trying to tell them that in the car on the way home after she left the police station, but Kate started talking over her. This from the synopsis…

Alice starts to recount what she does remember. She was in a lay-by on the lane by Heydon Woods, where she has gone before, and she turned the car off and put the keys in the glove box so she wouldn't accidentally... She remembers hearing George's voice...

Kate assumes that was when he was checking on her after the accident, and did most of the rescuing: they have an awful lot to thank George Grundy for.

That is not what Alice means: he was... the car was off... She just wanted to be alone, she didn't want to hurt anyone, and wasn't planning on coming back until it was all done with.

When Kate asks what was done with, she impatiently says 'the vodka' and adds 'my anger'. She wanted to get it all out of her system, and then when she was clear again she would have headed back. Still wearily, Kate asks if she couldn't just have had a drink at home, at which Brian expostulates, but Kate, the practical, tells him it would have been safer, that's all.

Alice angrily says that home was otherwise engaged, and Brian intervenes: they must have told her at the station that when George and Alistair found her, she was in the car, on the bridge, the bottle she bought from the shop was empty and she was pretty-much out for the count.

Alice mutters that is not what she remembers, but Kate firmly informs her that it's what Alistair and George remember, and they weren't drunk to the point of unconsciousness. Brian intervenes to suggest they might have some quiet time for the rest of the journey.

‘George is struggling to keep it up and a Paul has been cast over the vets’

😂😂😂

Am not sure George knows he's going to confess - more that he feels the truth is drawing inexorably closer to Ambridge day by day - a feeling of doom I suppose.

You may be right that that's the scriptwriters' intention, but if so I don't think it's realistic. I would expect someone like George to want to take any opportunity going for sex right now, if he thinks that he might be going to prison soon and have it in short supply. In fact, I would expect him to be a bit reckless (even more so that he usually is) in general, to want to make the most of the his last weeks of freedom, as he sees it.

I thought the reluctance to date Tilly was more to do with her interest in him being tied to his hero status. He is desperately trying to put an end to the adulation.

I see your point but don't think his emphasis on how he'd changed fitted that really?

He sounded a bit wistful about running away to Canada.

I thought so too! Is that what we’re meant to be thinking? Canada being a favoured refuge for naughty Ambridge residents who fancy a bit of down time. …

Fink
I would expect someone like George to want to take any opportunity going for sex right now, if he thinks that he might be going to prison soon and have it in short supply.

You mean he wouldn't want to be a virgin when he is sent down?

I wasn't specifically linking it to virginity. I don't think that we know for sure whether he is a virgin or not, although his attitude to women has smacked of incel. Whether he is or not, I think he'd feel that he should make the most of his current liberty by sleeping with anyone who'd have him.

The way he tried to pump Brad about what it was like to have sex with a woman made me feel that he probably is a virgin, though. I think Chelsea hit the nail on the head when she asked if he was afraid of Tilly because she is older and more "sophisticated" than he is....

I think she does remember that she heard George’s voice before the accident and was trying to tell them that in the car on the way home after she left the police station, but Kate started talking over her. Excellent point @VoxPop She does remember - if only she could be encouraged to do so. I wondered if hypnotism could be the answer or is this just fanciful and wouldn’t ever happen in RL? I agree that maybe talking to George could unlock something - maybe he will use a phrase that will jog her memory and it will all come flooding back.

Have George and Alice ever talked to each other much? They have precious little in common.

I know we know the truth but how realistic is it that Alice would take the very risk of going to prison based simply on a feeling that she wouldn't have driven when there is absolutely no evidence to support her feelings?

Well, she was his aunt by marriage until she got divorced. Or did they get divorced? I think so, because there was some nonsense talked, probably by Brine, about would Chris go after half her assets - which of course he wouldn't! Did he end up with one of the cottages, possibly the one Jakob lives in?