Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

Guys guys guys we are getting too complicated with this

obvious solution Alistair, two knees and Paul stood by a tree arguing

enter Emma with chainsaw

Go to HR solution

Well its not going to last if Denise is not seeing Alistair because he lives with Jim and she is still living with John. Very odd set up. If John had written on Mumsnet the advice would be, get your ducks in a row, see a solicitor and chuck her out. It must be intolerable in that household. Love Jakob though but he deserves better than the other spoilt Archer Daughter.

Kate has matured and mellowed

if john kicked her out I wonder where she could go. Maybe Joy would offer a room

Thank you! Much the simplest solution.

I may have mentioned this before, but if Pip could be passing underneath the tree at the same time, that would be a bonus.

Kate is an Aldridge daughter not an Archer, @Alwaysdieting . Her mother was an Archer.

Um, not sure how that means she isn't an Archer. My brother and I consider ourselves "Archers" and were treated as "Archers" in the village we grew up in.

We can be more confident that Kate's an Archer than we can that she's an Aldridge. I mean, given Adam's paternity, the brief marriage to wossname Travers-Macy (Lil's ex-boyfriend) and the John Tregorran business, who knows who Kate's father might be?

I don't give a lot of headspace to the royal family, but when I do it has occasionally puzzled me that Edward VIII had to abdicate to marry a divorcée, but Charles and Camilla are both divorced and he still became king. It's odder still that the Supreme Head of the Church of England only has a civil wedding.

On the basis of being in some way related to someone with the surname Archer, I think there are few people in Ambridge who speak and are not Archers: Lynda, Robert, Alan, Usha, Joy, Mick; Denise, Paul, Stella if having a sexual relationship with an Archer doesn't count...

Surely all the Grundys and Carters, except possibly Chris, count as non-Archers? I don't think that Susan for instance, being the mother of an ex-husband of a daughter of an Archer would count. And even less so someone like Will, the ex-husband of the sister of an ex-husband of a daughter of an Archer.

Whereas, like @IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle , I would consider all Jenny's children and grandchildren to be part of the Archer family, regardless of their actual surnames.

I assume Rosie is a fairbrother but she’s still an archer. And Lily and Freddie are pargetters but still archers. The mother isn’t discounted purely on patriarchal naming traditions

Rosie is an Archer: Rosie Ruth Grace Archer. Grace was the only nod to the Fairbrother side (unless Rosie is an inherited name, it doesn't sound like it).

Pip is Philippa Rose, so yes, it is inherited. It was mentioned at the time.

Being born an Archer; becoming the parent of an Archer, striving for, establishing and maintaining proximity (business / marriage / inheritance / gift) to an Archer - these things are the whole point of the story.

When it’s being properly written, the other families rise or fall according to their Archer proximity*. (The Snells only became truly indispensable Archer residents when they became the grandparent / step-grandparent of an Archer.)

*See learned essay by @LillianGish on the contrasting fortunes of Christopher and Emma …

Neil slightly had Archerhood thrust upon him at one time, after working at Brookfield for decades.

But they wouldn't let him marry Shula because a horrid class-consciousness crept in making some people posh and some not. How different things might have been . . .

Neil had a really lucky escape there, even if what he got instead was Susan.

I didn’t realise Brad was so young

chelsea seems to have a good client base

Thought the jazzer scene was a bit odd. How did Alice not hear them? And how did Alice get to Chris’?

not sure we needed to hear about George’s issues🙄. Why was that scene put in? Really odd

Brad not being eighteen yet was the reason for him and George being banned from the Bull just before Goerge Became A Hero.

She did hear them, I think. She seemed to know all about it.

I don't think George was talking about impotence, but I think Chelsea assumed that he was. She does that: leaps to conclusions on bugger all evidence.

@Fink It's odder still that the Supreme Head of the Church of England only has a civil wedding.

I expect they had a meeting and concluded that it was probably going to play better with the public than turning Camilla into a widow by having Andrew Parker Bowles bumped off.

I assumed she had heard Brian tell Chris rather than hear jazzer

yes I know Chelsea was assuming but why did we need that scene!!

Because Edward VIII was 87 years ago. Nearer to Victorian times than to Charles becoming king. Things have changed. There have been a lot of divorces in the RF since then.

It’s probably also what they think they can get away with. The main job of the monarchy is to maintain the monarchy. Presumably after all the buttering-up work done around Camilla, they thought it wouldn’t threaten the monarchy. And have been proved right - she’s doing the job rather well.

I'm not a big Charles or Camilla fan but they seem to love each other and be good for each other.
Edward VIII abdicated in 1936. The world has changed a lot since then.
I had respect for 'The Queen'.

I agree. They should have been allowed to marry originally but at least times have changed. I was so pleased when two people who clearly love each other as much as they do were finally together.

I only saw your answer in the preview and thought you were talking about Neil and Shula!

Was I listening right and does Chelsea now fink George has erectile dysfunction?