Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

Is it me, or is Charles Collingwood sounding a bit breathless? I noticed last time he was in it and I wondered if he was unwell. He sounded breathless in his first speeches tonight, I thought. I want Brian to go on forever!

Re the lack of matriarchs, maybe they've realised that it's 2024 and few women of matriarchal age (whatever that may be) have devoted their entire existence to housewifery and "nurturing"?

Brian did sound a bit breathless. I blame Miranda!

Good old Brian pushing Alice into having a meeting with her solicitor the day after she comes home, to press gang her into pleading guilty.

about as sensitive as a boot in the face, keep the scriptwriters in check Chris

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Sorry, yes it's @BoreOfWhabylon who interprets the 🔮for us.

I did laugh at Alistair's description of Jakob: "You shoot from the hip and never care about anyone's feelings" - quite accurate really. But poor Jakob, talk about damning with faint praise!

Alistair constantly referring to Deknees as “the woman I love” is nauseating. Shades of Edward Vlll.

I was struggling to differentiate between AliStare and Jakob last night.

I did love Jakob’s interpretation of the situation though.

Yes @ExitPursuedByABare i thought Jakob was absolutely spot on!

Agree that Jakob and Alastair sounded very similar. Glad Jakob was blunt with Alastair about the un professionalism!!! And Alastair with the whole ‘be a vet and a human being’ line - yeah well you get paid for being the former and your personal life is just that

Why do they have to spend the whole day at either the fete or stables? Would you not split your day? I can’t say I’d spend the whole day at a fete

regarding Paul only talking about work with Alastair and Denise - is that really a problem? I mean it is a workplace. Snarky comments aside of course - I wonder if he would have a case for constructive dismissal if they did fire him

has Chris been following a motivational speaker on insta? They are so getting back together. Is she going to be looking after Martha alone?

@Eastie77Returns , I agree.

Sadly that is the case with many older people. I think it’s quite true to life.

'Caring for people's overated' spot on Jakob! 😄

*overrated

I doubt Paul would succeed in a constructive dismissal case not at all because he only wants to keep it to work, but absolutely because of his sarcastic comments which are making the work environment untenable for Jakob who is not even involved. Presumably would go through the warning procedures first.

Yes I don’t think they could sack him straight off and I’m sure Lovell James would expect HR to be involved

I also think Alastair was very unhelpful - if he wants to give Paul a ticking off over the way he talks to Denise he has to keep it professional - not because she’s his mum.

a good example of why personal relationships in the workplace are a bad idea!!

@Bruisername

regarding Paul only talking about work with Alastair and Denise - is that really a problem? I mean it is a workplace. Snarky comments aside of course - I wonder if he would have a case for constructive dismissal if they did fire him

I think he would have a case because Alistare is clearly going OTT because Denknees is at the heart of it all and rowing with Alistare because of Paul only chatting about work things. I think there'd be a good argument that Alistare isn't treating him fairly or proportionately because of his own vested interests.

It would definitely be a case to settle. Imagine the reputational damage!

Or Jakob could get in touch with LJ and ask them to move Paul to another practice because Paul and his mother working together turned out to be a mistake which has led to workplace discord, and both the actual vets are finding it difficult to work with him. Which would have the merit of being true.

We know LJ have other practices because Denise worked in one for some months.

That would make the most sense. Although I get the impression Alastair isn’t keen for the bosses to find out about the affair

I don't see why Jakob needs to drag the affair into it; that in itself is not what is causing discord in the practice. What is causing discord is Paul's loud and objectionable reaction to his mother's private life.

Getting him moved is a sensible way to stop him from constant needling of his mother and his boss. (We have heard him snarking at Alistair, and I am quite prepared to believe Alistair when he said Paul was even worse to Denise: she has abased herself to Paul and tacitly given him permission to punish her.)

I was happy last night that Jakob declared that Kate was the woman for him. I was never sure whether he really loved her or had been kind of strongarmed into a longterm relationship with her by her forceful personality and his not picking up on cues early enough. But it seems that he does, so BOOP for that.

Any bonus BOOP for him shutting down Alistair when he tried to compare the two men's feelings. 😆

Jakob may not mention the affair but I’m sure Paul would

and as much as everyone hates Paul, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional from Alastair and Denise. Jakob didn’t ask to be in this situation but neither did Paul.

I can’t remember who had the job at the vets - as it Denise’s job with Paul covering for her or did he end up with it? If it wasn’t her job and she was drafted in as a second nurse then management could question whether she was really needed or if Alastair had other motives

The affair is not relevant to Paul being relocated to another office. If Paul is not dismissed, he would not be in a position to say anything at an enquiry about his dismissal!

Denise has been the practice nurse at the Stables surgery since at least 2003; Paul is a noisy nuisance blow-in who was sent there to cover for her while she was helping with set-up at another practice that had been bought by Lovell James. He started work in Ambridge on 19th October, 2022.

Or Jakob could get in touch with LJ and ask them to move Paul to another practice because Paul and his mother working together turned out to be a mistake which has led to workplace discord,

I know it’s fiction, but this is a pretty horrifying proposal. Alistair is the senior member of the practice; he pursued a married employee. The fact that discord has ensued is entirely his fault. Why on earth should Paul be labelled a troublemaker and lose his professional reputation in this circumstance?

Maybe there aren’t that many openings for Black, gay vet nurses with a query against their name in rural practices around that area?

I feel dislike of Paul’s character is clouding the whole thing

my preference for this sl would be for Denise to do a runner as of the 3 protagonists she is my least favourite

she does seem good at hiding/running off on holiday and seems to do it a lot!

Also, as Alastair is Denise’s boss I would imagine he would be expected to declare the relationship and Jakob to become her line manager. And Paul’s too. So poor Jakob ends up with more work and responsibility

On the other hand, maybe Paul should think about his professional prospects before launching a vendetta against two out of the three other people in his workplace, all of whom are considerably senior to him.

Alistair was pursued at least as much as pursuing, and Denise reeled him in with her sob-stories about how her husband didn't understand her. Anyone on this forum is surely familiar with the old lie about "my wife doesn't understand me"; it is just as objectionable when the word husband replaces the word wife.

And Alistair was preparing to give up his job and move away rather than have an affair with a colleague, until Paul implored him to stay and threw a major hissy-fit about the possibility of his leaving.