Archers thread #165: Bridge over troubled waters! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you believe Rochelle exists, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/5071889-the-archers-spoilers-thread-9-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

This thread may well fill up as fast as the last one, so let's just get stuck in!

I wonder if Harrison's opposition to Fallon running her own business was - in conjunction with him going part-time and thus being able to be a SAHD - to do with hopes that they'd eventually have a family? It wouldn't fit if Fallon was too busy running a business, plus their income stream was from Fallon's self-employment which wouldn't have come with maternity leave etc.

But like so many things I see on here, wouldn’t it have all been so much easier if they’d communicated about it?!

But she has been very clear about not wanting kids

and given what she has been through in the last fortnight I don’t see why she has to have a conversation with someone so clearly angry

As far as we know Jolene was not married to Wayne: given the eagerness with which she changed her name to Perks and then to Archer, if she had married Wayne Fallon would be called Fallon Tucson, not Fallon Rogers. So I think she and Jennifer have each had two marriages. It was a lot more usual in 1985 for the child of a marriage to be given the husband's surname than that of the mother; and we know that Jolene is in fact rather hot on sticking to conventionalities where possible.

Hence her somewhat horrible insistence that no matter what ill Harrison had done Fallon, nor how he was making her feel or behaving to her, Fallon had an obligation to "be nice" and "be patient". That first exhortation gave me cold shudders down my spine: Fallon thinks her "wise old mother" is on her side, but in fact Jolene's wisdom amounts to "hang onto your man no matter what: any man is better than none", which is not necessarily the best course for a woman married to a man who has started to show violent tendencies and whose violence has frightened her.

Jolene was absolutely awful in that scene.

Whilst we're talking about "respect", I honestly don't think I'd have much respect for my husband, if at Fallon and Harrison's age, and absent any health issues or carer's responsibilities and given a hefty mortgage, he'd decided to go to part time working just because he felt like it and I was still working full time.

Though Jolene hasn't sung anything for a while, having her belt out Stand By Your Man would help make up for them depriving us of the Doom Music last week.

If you are biased, so am I, but without the friend with the horrible husband. (I hope she is better now and will have a happier life without him.)

Harrison saw Fallon, decided that he fancied being married to her and pursued her relentlessly and completely without scruples or care for her feelings about it, and succeeded in "capturing" her; whether either of them knows it or not, he regards her as a prize he won, not a person who made a mutual agreement with him, and not a partner. She has done her best to consult with him about things; he has made up his mind about them and then told her what he wants them to do. (Her van; the house; their jobs; now her pregnancy, and that was a step too far and she has noticed. I hope.)

She sounded keen.

I always assumed Tucson was a stage name and Rogers was Wayne’s real name!

Just like you might say she squashed flat his innate and primeval desire to procreate (not talking the design app here). But he agreed to that .

Relationships are all about give and take. I agree Fallon perhaps might be better being a little more forceful but understands the massive personal sacrifice Harrison made for her, because he loves her so much.

Fallon still seems to want to be with him so her choice. Just as she was so kind and understanding with Alice, she understands Harrison’s sacrifice to be with her and understands the depth of feelings (triggered by the pregnancy and loss) currently driving his recent self obsessed behaviour and extreme emotions.

Although it is cruel not to talk with him, I think she is afraid she will hurt him more if she pops his suspended belief balloon. Not wanting to poke the angry bear with a sharp stick when he is in such self torment and volatility. Also needing space to heal herself from all the turmoil.

George is such an obnoxious, cruel, self serving arsehole, but cannot help responding to his (far from undeserved) mental torment, from the corner he has well and truly lodged himself into.

Sorry but that is just blah, blah, blah. Fallon was upfront from the start she didn't want children. If his "innate and primeval desire to procreate" is so overwhelming he should have found/ should find a partner who wants to procreate with him.

As for "talking about it" - all he's interested in hearing is that Fallon has changed her mind. Given how angry he is I doubt very much he'll be willing to listen to anything else. He's more concerned about the loss of a clump of cells than the fact Fallon might have drowned.

Innate and primeval desire. WTF.

😂😂😂

Me too!

I thought the advice and comfort Jolene gave Fallon was fine. What was wrong with it? I didn’t hear ‘be nice’ or any kind of subtext to her comments that suggested ‘any man is better than no man’ and she should just be a doormat wife. I thought it was good when she diplomatically pointed out that turning up with Fallon at the hospital for the follow up scan without informing Harrison might be a bit awkward.

Both Jolene and Kenton have been very helpful without overstepping any boundaries and interfering by doling out unsolicited advice.

I mean let’s give Harrison a break here. Fallon makes cakes and refurbs furniture for a living. She’s clearly desperate to be a homemaker but needs the right man to help her admit it.

and if a woman is nice to a man who saved her and is worried when he doesn’t seem herself then she clearly wants to sleep with him - I mean a woman being nice to a man is a clear signal right?

I think the talk on Harrison is getting a bit deep. He is upset and angry. Deep down he wanted children bùt his wife didnt so he said he was ok with it. He will just havè to get over his dissapointment and support his wife who has a fear of drowning flashbacks.
I donot think Fallon is going to fall into George's arms, I think he will run a mile if she even suggested anything like that. It would scare the life out of him especially the way he is feeling at the moment.

It is interesting - but obviously not surprising - how we all bring our own life experiences to our very different interpretations of the characters.

I thought it was terrible advice
I heard it exactly the way AskingQuestionsAllTheTime heard it.

Kenton was far more understanding and helpful. (And that's a sentence I never thought I'd write)

Glad you enjoyed

I refuse to believe you have not heard of the f f f four Fs given you use the acronym for the 4th and most pertinent (to this debate) in the last letter of your comment.

We are the mammalian taxonomic class after all ;)

Jolene was Doreen Rogers, the daughter of Mr Rogers the butcher at Layton Cross, when she first caught Eddie's eye.

You need a sarcasm font for this, @Bruisername!

Hopefully everyone got it !

Eastie77Returns
I didn’t hear ‘be nice’

Nevertheless, Jolene did say those words.