Archers thread #158: Te Rum? You numpty, numpty, Tom! Empty tearoom follows. Christmas coming, farmers’ stand up, will it make us LOL? No! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Tom Archer is a great businessman, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the title idea, which may plant an earworm if my scansion just about holds up. @BeatriceBatchelor wanted 'plebby coffee' inserted in reference to my Bolivian coffee anecdote on the last thread, so I'll mention it here instead. Here's hoping Fallon and Emma decamp to the charging station or Grey Gables, or both, to run the type of coffee shop/tearoom people actually enjoy spending time in. Tom's cauliflower eclairs and kale criossants approach sounds more likely to drive the casual trade away from the farm shop and cheese window as well as the Google Translate-named Te Rum.

Feeling very uninspired by TA at the moment, so I have nothing more to say for now. Over to you!

I'm glad I've got a fellow Jill hit squad @CaptainMyCaptain @AngryBirdsNoMore

I thought she behaved appallingly last year to Ben and has been a thorn in Ruth's side for many a year. And the passive aggression look at meeeeee of saying her own cake was dry and then taking huge offence at someone agreeing - she was obviously just fishing for compliments and being disingenuous which I cannot bear IRL let alone TA!

Do we think Stella is going to cause Jill to keel over with baking based apoplexy on Christmas Day?! I'd LOVE it if she did!!

I agree.

I don't really like either of them tbh.

Yes I'd forgotten how awful she was to Ben. Old age isn't an excuse for that nastiness.

Re the cake. I was with some friends last week having a fuddle. One friend brought some cheese scones which she said had gone wrong because she forgot to put the baking powder in until the last minute. I didn't pretend it made no difference I said they were a bit biscuity but delicious and ate two. Was I wrong?

Maybe I’ve been reading too much Japanese fiction but the self deprecating comments aren’t meant to garner praise but rather imply a certain modesty.

in Jill’s case perhaps it was reassurance

the Worst doesn’t always need to be read into someone’s actions

the more I think about it the more I wonder about the writing of the female characters - what proportion of the sw are women?

I agree with this. Jill was never a nasty stick-in-the-mud character; she was the one who was determinedly and vocally anti-hunting, for instance, when that was not the fashionable cause. She was in favour of schools reform. She was kind to the squatters at Rickyard Cottage. And many, many other examples of her being a Good Thing.

And not only was Stella hectoring (telling someone that something they didn't actually do wasn't their fault because they were ignorant is a fairly horrible thing to say no matter what), she announced her intention of continuing to be so. I think if I'd been Pip I'd have said, "You were invited to Brookfield for Christmas by me, and I am now uninviting you": clearly Stella intends to set out spoil the occasion for everyone else.

They have got one thing right: Jill has never been one to take it lying down when she was attacked by someone rude for no particular reason.

Oh, and Jill didn't exactly ask about the sticker: Stella drew her attention to it by saying wtte "I know it's preachy but it's not aimed at you of course". Which is roughly like telling someone Jewish that you don't mean Jews like them, after uttering a blanket condemnation of Jews. My brother has never forgotten nor forgiven that having been done to his wife.

Bruisername
the more I think about it the more I wonder about the writing of the female characters - what proportion of the sw are women?

This year:
Naylah Ahmed x 5
Caroline Harrington x 2
Sarah Hehir x 5
Katie Hims x 6
Caroline Jester x 1
Liz John x 4
Sarah McDonald-Hughes x 3
(26 weeks)

Paul Brodrick x 1
Keri Davies x 5
Avin Shah x 1
Tim Stimpson x 9
Daniel Thurman x 5
Nick Warburton x 5
(26 weeks)

Nah - Jill ONLY wants to hear "no! It's the best cake ever". She got in a snit when someone else won best cake at the show.

As a farmer('s) wife she should have agreed that farming knowledge and practices have changed. But I agree we' re setting up a "choose love or family" scenario for Pip.

What do we think about the Church? Is it saved?

Asking I agree with all of your last post! Pip shouldn't accept Stella basically planning to be rude to her family, basically without any cause.

Brefugee well it was a line before the dumdeedums, so it's either going to have All The Village plus half of Borcestshire (?) for the Christmas Eve service or ...... none, save t'parson and t'churchwarden (and Joy).

Tickets were, what, £15?

Audience of 300 tops, given how many were performing, not watching.

£4500?

Yes, standards have indeed changed. 50 years ago we were all trying to save the Amazon, and avoiding wood and paper use. Now the plastics we were using instead have proved not to be such a good idea. It wasn’t that we didn’t care.

Jill sounded like Peggy

I thought the comedy bit was good, some light relief - I thought the Jacob bits were funny and Jasper Carrot was ok too.
Jill has strong opinions and is strong willed. That's fine. But she was really really unkind to Ben and really upset him and made him feeling even worse about himself than he already did.
I think Stella is right to not pander to Jill and I thought Stella was spot on in pointing out that Jill doesn't need to be pandered to, she's a tough cookie. Or dare I say it, a tough lemon drizzle 🤣

I'd think Stella was right if it hadn't been clear what she really meant was actually more like "I intend to be as unpleasant to her during your family Christmas as I feel like and she can bloody well put up with it." I wasn't at all sure there wasn't an undertone of, "If I happen to be civil then you have been lucky: now beg me properly."

Is there any reason to think Stella has ever given a tuppenny cuss about Ben or his well-being? I very much doubt if Ben having been upset by Jill has anything to do with Stella taking it on herself to blame ("Oh, I'm not blaming you, you didn't know any better") Jill – who unlike Brian, Stella's employer, was fully in support of Pat and Tony taking up organic farming quite possibly before Stella was born and certainly before Stella took up farming – for farming practices which were not actually Jill's.

I quite like it when new partners challenge the status quo - I think I remember Natasha doing something similar with the Bridge Farm lot, I can’t remember what but she didn’t pander to the way it had always been and I think it ruffled a few feathers. I think that is quite true to life - adults partner up with other adults and aren’t willing to just go along with dysfunctional family dynamics.

HOWEVER, I did think Stella was being a bit of twat about it. a weird patronising hill for her to die on. “I don’t blame you for what you did to the soil, you didn’t know any better!”

Also, my MIL is about the same age as Jill and always serves the food she’s made with a side order of extreme modesty. It’s not fishing for compliments, it was how she was raised to show politeness. In her eyes, politeness in return is reassurance or gratitude for the effort she’s gone. If I agreed with her modest comment, she’d see it as a real insult and an upturning of the social etiquette that she’s used to.

I wasn't saying Jill being mean to Ben was anything to do with Stella's treatment of Jill @Bruisername
but was giving it as an example of Jill being opinionated and forthright when it suits her. Yet she is offended and indignant when others (Stella) are opinionated and forthright with her.
Maybe someone from Brookfield could get Jill and Stella matching t-shirts for Christmas emblazoned with the phrase "If you don't like my apples, don't shake my tree" 😀

I'm team Stella on this one. Jill was unnecessarily twatty for no good reason. And like others I highly doubt she got involved in the land management much over the years.

She would need to be at least 101 years old to have served in the WLA by my maths.

Stella put her foot in it a bit, but unwittingly so. Jill could have been gracious about it but wasn't.

Pip getting involved only made it worse.

But I still haven't forgiven Jill for being a rotten cow to Ben, so I'm biased.

Grimchmas
like others I highly doubt she got involved in the land management much over the years.
She would need to be at least 101 years old to have served in the WLA by my maths.

That was not what Jill said, though. What she was saying was that the farmers Stella was busy despising, using methods from before Stella was even thought of, had kept the country fed during WWII. Which is undoubtedly true.

David had every right to be annoyed but he’s such a patronising arse!!! Poor Freddie being bullied and treating it as bantz.

And Josh is going to Brookfield for Christmas after all leaving Paul and Lily to host the oldies - sorry, I mean Joy, Denise and John. 😁

Poor Josh; I was afraid this would be what happened to him. He was not consulted at any point by Lily and Paul, was he?

TBF, that is pretty accurate for how a 3yo country kid ends up with a Shetland. Although most country folk I know (esp. e.g. farriers and yard managers) wouldn't spend so much time worrying about the commitment and possible downsides. A Shetland can be tucked in somewhere no problem if you have a whole livery yard at your disposal...

In fact, it would be rather funny if Chris and Alice didn't talk to each other before Xmas (hopefully he will talk to Alice before buying the pony? That is pretty basic!), and Martha ended up with a Shetland AND a Welsh Section A...!

I never meant that Stella was like that with Jill because of the way Jill treated ben

i found the way Jill treated Ben totally unbelievable so I strike that from my memory of the character!

Poor Freddie indeed. Lily would have torn their skin off. Or found a suitable revenge. (Presumably Vince is well aware of what’s going on and thinks being bullied is a learning experience for a Pargetter? Although … Freddie’s already had a toughening up experience - maybe he isn’t quite such a pushover as he appears.)

Regarding the pony - I was holding my breath in case Chris decided against getting the creature, only for Harry to present Alice with it for her lovely daughter on Christmas Day … I guess he might still conjure another one out of a hat. Or a racehorse …