Archers thread #158: Te Rum? You numpty, numpty, Tom! Empty tearoom follows. Christmas coming, farmers’ stand up, will it make us LOL? No! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Tom Archer is a great businessman, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the title idea, which may plant an earworm if my scansion just about holds up. @BeatriceBatchelor wanted 'plebby coffee' inserted in reference to my Bolivian coffee anecdote on the last thread, so I'll mention it here instead. Here's hoping Fallon and Emma decamp to the charging station or Grey Gables, or both, to run the type of coffee shop/tearoom people actually enjoy spending time in. Tom's cauliflower eclairs and kale criossants approach sounds more likely to drive the casual trade away from the farm shop and cheese window as well as the Google Translate-named Te Rum.

Feeling very uninspired by TA at the moment, so I have nothing more to say for now. Over to you!

I thought Harry said the friend died so I'm not so sure it's him. Engineering a meeting with Chris that way was certainly weird but he seemed OK when they actually met. I'll reserve judgement on Harry. I think Chris told Susan he was a bit 'smooth' and I know exactly what he meant.

Well I think he’s weird and it was disrespectful to Alice and infantilising of her in a way.

yes the Jill scene was uncomfortable. I get the impression the sw don’t like her much whenever she’s in a scene.

@Bruisername Yes, agree regarding Jill. For a while now, although she doesn't appear very often, she invariably comes across as very tetchy and almost an unpleasant character. I don't think she's always been like that has she?

@Bruisername it was definitely weird and I don't think Alice will be happy when she finds out. Weird isn't necessarily evil although it might well be a good reason to end the relationship. We'll have to wait and see.

Jill's voice sounded very weak and she was unnecessarily nasty to Stella.

But why wouldn’t Stella Shut Up?

Yes I think Pip and Stella were being really patronising, and generalising about older generations of farmers, which is certainly pretty odd given the different farming models being practiced by the older generations in Ambridge alone. The idea that farmers once didn’t care about the soil was a good one for example! 😂

I thought it was a bit ‘old generation bad, new generation good’ but it was written so Jill came across badly and didn’t quite make the point. Stella was being weird - it was like she’s never spoken to Jill before and it was the big introduction. But surely she’s been in the village long enough to have met Jill numerous times?

stella is a brusque person but would she really have made the faux pas of agreeing the cake was dry? And why so defensive about the sticker? Rather than saying I shouldn’t have put it on yours would it not have made more sense to just explain why - no need to get into the previous generations debate

and why so much fanfare over a Christmas card?

it’s nice to hear older characters but the se do seem to like to make the women awful (Peggy, Jill) and the men genial old gents (Jim, Leonard)

I admit I was cooking at the time and making noises so I might have missed bits but I thought that Jill was goading Stella into an argument. First she asked if the lemon drizzle cake was dry and took the hump when Stella said it was a little dry then she took offence at the sticker on the envelope before Stella had said anything about farming.

She made a self deprecating comment about the cake being a bit dry and Stella agreed rather than saying ‘oh no it’s lovely’ which is the social norm

jill asked what the sticker was and Stella seemed to get defensive and immediately said she shouldn’t have put it on Jill’s card

it was a very strange conversation

It was rather odd and uncomfortable all round.

They’re hinting at Jill’s terminal decline. First time she’s produced a cake which hasn’t been universally admired. Even Jill suggested it hadn’t come out as usual.

it’s nice to hear older characters but the se do seem to like to make the women awful (Peggy, Jill) and the men genial old gents (Jim, Leonard) Just reflecting the usual bias of society, isn’t it?

Jill's voice sounded very weak and she was unnecessarily nasty to Stella. I thought Stella was unnecessarily nasty to Jill. Suggesting her generation of farmers raped the soil for all they could get out of it with no heed of the future, for example.

and why so much fanfare over a Christmas card? Have you never read the AIBU threads about (usually MILs of course) using the wrong form of address or misspelling Emelia as Emilia?

My mother always makes some self-deprecating comment about her baking; it's a cue for everyone to praise it lavishly.

Agree mere. It’s the same way kids berate their parents for having destroyed the planet as if we were all sitting around coal fires going ‘hee hee, this will screw the next generation’

Peggy isn’t portrayed as awful because an old woman: she is an awful character who - miraculously, given her eminent throttlability - has survived into extreme old age.
With Jill, it’s a different kettle of bees.

I don't think Alice will be happy when she's hears about Harry's subterfuge with Chris, even if his motives were less sinister than we were directed to believe.

If Gagriculture is tonight, I won't be listening.

I cannot BEAR Jill. Her querulous unpleasantness gives me the rage. I'd happily suffocate her with a blanket of dry lemon drizzle cake.

I agree. She isn’t portrayed as awful now she’s old. She is a horrible woman and has been for a long time.

I'll help you.

I think the sw have done Jill dirty.

i do think more generosity is given to the male characters

also on Harry - Chris had just said he has more work offered him than he needs. So his offer of recommending friends? Was that just a way of saying ‘I know people’. I agree with Susan that it wasn’t meant as a kindness and Chris recognised that because of the discomfort he felt and the ‘smooth’ comment. Harry is an operator and I’m not sure Alice is strong enough to deal with that. I hope they don’t go down the road of him getting her back in the booze.

it was Alice who should have been responsible for any meeting between Harry and Chris and it doesn’t bode well for a future blended family scenario if he is already going behind her back with her daughters father

I think the Jill / Stella bit was to show that Stella is still 'new' to the family (although she isn't new to them at all but is new as a romantic partner) and that Stella now needs to work out that in order to have a happy life she needs to learn and stick to the familial norms of praising Jill and her effing cakes and deferring to Jill as a senior member of the family and to not challenge Jill because that's Not What They Do.
Ruth has had to learn that lesson too and has clearly not liked it a fair few times over the years.
So it's about Stella moving from 'Local farmer and Ruth's friend' to 'Potential long term member of the family'.
That's what I think anyway!
And Harry was massively out of line and to do that after 2 weeks would be a massive red flag in real life.

I've just listened again. Stella should probably have eaten the dry cake, washed it down with a cup of tea and said nothing but Jill was looking for offence over the sticker. She didn't need to have said anything about that. I can't imagine Stella deferring to Jill just because that's what everyone else has always done.

I also realised it was Susan that used the word 'smooth' about Harry but that's what he is.

BoreOfWhabylon
And Kirsty should get together with Patrick, who has adored her for years.

I thought he was the one who wasn't interested in them having a relationship, though.

That's not how I remember it Asking, I formed the impression he was very much the friend nurturing unrequited love. Iirc he was incandescent when Sausage Boy dumped Kirsty at the altar.

No matter though, either of them can(and should) rethink and set up nest together to raise a brood of hatchlings!