Archers thread #158: Te Rum? You numpty, numpty, Tom! Empty tearoom follows. Christmas coming, farmers’ stand up, will it make us LOL? No! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Tom Archer is a great businessman, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the title idea, which may plant an earworm if my scansion just about holds up. @BeatriceBatchelor wanted 'plebby coffee' inserted in reference to my Bolivian coffee anecdote on the last thread, so I'll mention it here instead. Here's hoping Fallon and Emma decamp to the charging station or Grey Gables, or both, to run the type of coffee shop/tearoom people actually enjoy spending time in. Tom's cauliflower eclairs and kale criossants approach sounds more likely to drive the casual trade away from the farm shop and cheese window as well as the Google Translate-named Te Rum.

Feeling very uninspired by TA at the moment, so I have nothing more to say for now. Over to you!

Yeah I thought the “I’m not taking your place..you will always be a part of Martha’s life” speech (or words to that effect) was very weird. You’d expect that from a man preparing to marry Alice.

I’m surprised Chris didn’t bring that up and remind ‘Mr Chilcott’ he’s been seeing Alice for all of 5 minutes. I suppose, as he mentioned, he was disarmed by Harry’s confidence and smooth delivery.

I’m with Susan though - seeing a LOT of red flags here.

Agreed on all points!

I thought Patrick was gay, but I may very well have imagined that. Either that, or perhaps just not interested in sex and/or romance.

Unfortunately, all round good eggs don't always appeal as life partners. What a lot of angst would be avoided otherwise.

As evidenced by Lee - total vanilla character but no ones really missed him or commented much since he departed.

whilst we may hate horrible characters and relationships they are what keep the drama going! Just not too panto villain please

Yes, in drama less vanilla, more spice!

Surely this has to be Jill’s last Christmas. I thought the dry lemon drizzle sounded the death knell. It’s actually quite hard to make a dry lemon drizzle unless you really take your eye off the ball. That’s why it’s a good beginners’/entry level cake.

May I come along too?

Comments like this are one of the reasons I love these threads - I would never have thought of this!

This is dire, and are they in the church rather than the village hall? Weird acoustic.

Laughter much too hearty

Was it supposed to be a revelation that Sykesy is funny? I wasn't laughing.

Told you Jakob would be the highlight!

the applause is surely just neighbourly. The way you clap the awful solo at the school concert.

Well jasper carrot got his moment I guess. I skipped through those 4 mins tbh

its Interesting because Stella is quite intransigent - like Jill. Telling an old lady she was unknowingly wrong in the past is a bit odd.

and it’s just rude to comment on the flaws of a homemade dish - even if the baker said it first. That’s not just a British cultural thing!!

And what was that whole scene with Jill? Inter generational conflict?

I wish they'd carried on the conversation. It was interesting, Jill pointing out that they'd kept people fed during the war.

Yes, those evil farmers Stella knows so much better than were quite a good thing before Stella was born or even thought of....

Yes. It makes me think of an assembly I went to at dd’s school about the environment. Her young and clearly idealist teacher had revolved it around how it was all the older generations fault and the poor young kids were the ones who would have to solve it. All with choreographed finger pointing throughout.

Why do some of you find listening to Jill uncomfortable? She's very old (both character and actress), her voice reflects that. If she's sounding tetchy, well old age can be a challenge and not everyone can be saintly about that.

It's her delivery of her lines - the emphasis is all wrong. Sounds like she's reading them for the first time.

I thought it was weird that Stella was talking to Jill as if Jill has been the farmer herself. Jill was always very much in the farmer’s wife mould to me, back in the farmhouse cooking, cleaning, washing the mucky overalls and raising the kids. Hence her difficulty in seeing Ruth as a farmer. I didn’t think she was particularly consulted by Phil,Dan or David over agricultural decisions, not did she seem to want to be.

I hope Stella will have to eat some, rather dry, humble pie because she was hectoring Jill and judging her generation by todays standards.

it’s not the acting for me - it’s the way they’re writing her. I hated the Ben stuff last year. To me it just didn’t feel like Jill. I’m sure others will tell me she’s always been like that but it just felt wrong to me.

I agree with you. It feels wrong to me, as well. Jill has never been a saint and has her flaws, but her personality does appear to have changed/storylines have gone too far.

It was a clash of two iron personalities both of whom are known never to give in. I'm fairly old, although not as old as Jill, and I can acknowledge that new research will constantly be coming up with new ideas even if they often hark back to earlier ones like farming organically without chemicals. I can't remember how old Jill is but she won't have been farming all the way through the war unless she is well over 100. They did use more chemicals but it was deemed necessary at the time and now the disadvantages of that can be seen. Stella wasn't blaming Jill or anyone else really so I don't know why Jill got so stroppy.

I hope I'm not like Jill when I'm her age, I'm 69 and I put my baby to sleep on her front because that's what I was told to do at the time things change and I knew not to do that with my grandchildren. That's the best equivalent I can come up with at the moment because I'm not a farmer and it was literally a matter of life and death. I also brought her home from hospital sitting in the back of a car with no restraint because that's the way it was done then.

As far as TA goes I think the whole thing was about Pip having to choose between Stella and her family. Maybe Ruth can help with that (or not).

Stella’s manner was very much blaming and that’s why Jill got defensive. There’s no reason why Jill needs to be educated to understand the damage her generation may have unknowingly done.

she asked about The sticker and Stella became defensive - ‘oh I shouldn’t have put it on your card’. She didn’t have to go on about the past - she could have just explained the positive farming she hopes to see. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar - Stella is definitely more vinegar. You may say it’s because she’s passionate but you won’t win people over if you put their back up

Yeah it was all a bit contrived. And I still think that Real Jill’s response would have been “oh I didn’t get involved in the farming, left all that to Dan and Phil, yes times have changed indeed dear”.

I think the lemon drizzle dryness offence was much more serious for Real Jill.